CDZ Its rough, but I can compromise and outlaw most abortions.

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by Toronado3800, Jun 4, 2017.

  1. sakinago
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    sakinago Gold Member

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    It's not the logic, the logic is fine. Parents are responsible for their children, and peopled are responsible to take very very simple and cheap measures If they don't want to have children. Birth control is infinitely more cheap and safe than using abortion as birth control. I mean come on, an IUD lasts 5 YEARS, and you don't have to do a thing. Yet you still claim it's the pro lifers fault that these people can't take simple and quick precautions to insure they don't get pregnant.

    And then you act as if the church doesn't want to adopt and take care of kids, yet they're lined up out the door to adopt, spending 50,000 grand a pop. Yet it takes years to try to adopt. And we'd all agree that adoption is a far better route for the children, than foster care... but in our system, we'll charge you 50,000 and make you wait and wait to adopt, but give you money if you take kids into foster care instead. That system is definitely broken, and just screwing with these kids already hard lives, when they could've been adopted had the system been much easier, and cheaper. They're hundreds of thousands of childless parents who are waiting and waiting to adopt, and spending money they can hardly afford, when they're doing the system a favor by offering to take full responsibility of these kids, and take them out of the terrible system that is our states foster care. And you're still saying the church is the problem?
     
  2. Toronado3800
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    Toronado3800 VIP Member

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    I agree the parents should be responsible. Perhaps we can come after those who were over 18 when their children had to become wards of whatever church yet.

    I did not claim it is the pro lifers fault people don't use birth control. If abortion gets outlawed it will be the pro lifers fault we have more precious little children to adopt and I tell you, I'm willing to compromise with their Political Action Committees (Churches).

    If churches or Right to Life groups or whoever want to adopt these kids like you say, fine. More kids means more supply of kids obviously so the price should go down. I'm thrilled, we do not disagree there.

    Then you get the problem that some of the loudest anti-choice folks are also those complaining about birth control. After all, our sperm is a gift from god and it is a sin to waste it for means other than pro creation. I'm going to throw into my compromise no one can opt out of "paying for birth control" through their taxes or whatever on religious ground.

    Anti-abortion groups just need to get their heads out of the sand and practice what they preach. These are precious lives I am offering to help save in exchange for some tax reform. Aren't the lives of the innocents worth it?
     
  3. sakinago
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    sakinago Gold Member

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    I'm not saying they wouldn't, they absolutely would take that deal, they would. If it means stopping the holocaust they see, they'd do it. It's just a non-sense deal, and argument. Again would it be right if the slavers said the abolitionist take care of all the slaves? No, it's the same argument you're trying to make. Not to mention they're are plenty of pro choice churches out there, it's not at all a monolithic group you're trying to make it out to be. You say your not blaming them, but in the same reply, you are. And I don't know of anyone whose against birth control, that's just a ridiculous claim. The Catholic Church in the past was against their own members using it, but it didn't stop the parishioners from using it, and today, they don't say jack shit about it. And almost al of them use birth control themselves one way or another. Does every Christian or catholic family have 7 or more kids? No! Why is that?

    And sperm is a gamete, not a human. It has only 23 chromosomes. Same with eggs, gametes as well. You're acting as if christians act like hacidic Jews, following all the laws of Leviticus or whatever it is (one of those books in the Torah with the 300 or so laws). You're argument is just ridiculous there. Really shows your lack of knowledge of the church. It's like saying all muslims honor kill their daughters/wives, and rape boys.

    And I'm telling you they are practicing what they preach, our system makes it worse than pulling teeth (like they do almost everything else). Why do you think so many looking to adopt go out of country to do so? Because it's so freaking difficult and expensive to do so here. And it should lower the price?? It's should be free, especially since the government is willing to pay god knows who to take kids in foster care, and the terrible system that is. You're acting like they're just sitting on their asses doing nothing.
     
  4. Toronado3800
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    Toronado3800 VIP Member

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    Catholic charities and whoever is not doing nothing. They can do more as a company but as individuals their employees / volunteers are pretty good people. I suspect the same is true for many other organizations.

    The positive thing here is you think they'll take the deal for my vote. Like me or not hopefully we can work towards a solution.
     
  5. sakinago
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    sakinago Gold Member

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    It's not that I don't like you. You're actually reasonable. There's too many that take a hard line on either side and don't actually think through the issues or listen to other side, the latter being more important.

    And I disagree with your statement that catholic or other charities need to be forced to do things they may be opposed to. Whatever happened to "congress shall make no law concerning the establishment of religion, or the free excercise thereof." That language is as clear as it gets. They are PRIVATE RELIGIOUS organizations. If you don't like their policies, go work/volunteer at any of the other thousands of charities out there. If you don't like what smoking does to people, you shouldn't work at Phillip Morris.
     
  6. KokomoJojo
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    KokomoJojo VIP Member

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    far better to leave it up to our kleptocracy to decide for us
     
  7. KokomoJojo
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    KokomoJojo VIP Member

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    it never existed, never will, or if it does it will be interpreted as 'you have the right to pray' *exercize=pray*, ask the mormons and the kliens. dont exist. In all other cases you have the duty to obey the gubmint religion or be fined and penalized, at least thats the way it is in the USA land of the free hehehehehehehe
     

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