It's Not The Teacher's Unions....

Discussion in 'Education' started by PoliticalChic, Mar 2, 2011.

  1. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Gold Member

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    Much of the hostility towards the teacher's unions isn't based on the economy, but rather the residual anger over how poorly our children are learning.

    Well, read the following, and see if you can blame the teachers....

    ...the blame should be on the curriuculum and educrats.

    "In the past 50 years, by one reckoning, the working vocabulary of the average 14 year-old has declined from some 25,000 words to 10,000 words. This is not merely a decline in numbers of words but in the capacity to think. It also signifies that there has been a steep decline in the number of things that an adolescent needs to know and to name in order to get by in an increasingly homogenized and urbanized consumer society. This is a national tragedy virtually unnoticed in the media. It is no mere coincidence that in roughly the same half century the average person has come to recognize over 1000 corporate logos, but can now recognize fewer than 10 plants and animals native to his or her locality.

    That fact says a great deal about why the decline in working vocabulary has gone unnoticed—few are paying attention. The decline is surely not consistent across the full range of language but concentrates in those areas having to do with large issues such as philosophy, religion, public policy, and nature. On the other hand, vocabulary has probably increased in areas having to do with sex, violence, recreation, and consumption. As a result we are losing the capacity to say what we really mean and ultimately to think about what we mean. We are losing the capacity for articulate intelligence about the things that matter most.

    "That sucks," for example, is a common way for budding young scholars to announce their displeasure about any number of things that range across the spectrum of human experience."
    Verbicide

    The Dewey-Progressive non-subject matter based education.
    Hang the educrats! (Can I still say that?)


    Verbicide
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  2. Mr.Fitnah
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    Mr.Fitnah Dreamcrusher

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    Im pretty pissed @ teachers unions as well .
  3. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    You know that I work with antique books for children, right?


    So naturally I have to decide what the reading level is for each book I publish.

    The 2nd or 3rd grade reading level books written in our grandfathers' day would flummox the average 5th or 6th grader, today.

    As an educator one of the problems we have is that we have decided to TEACH DOWN to our children, rather than teaching UP to them.

    Now imagine that you were trying to teach your baby to learn the language.

    How much progress would you make if you only spoke BABY TALK to them?

    ZERO, right?

    Well, on a smaller scale that the problem with teaching down to kids.

    Most children's books published today are PABLUM.

    Worse, they are also politically correct PABLUM.

    Now whose fault is that?

    THE PUBLIC'S fault, folks.

    They're the morons who buy this crap for their kids.

    And they are ALSO the morons who get teachers fired who won't give Buffy and Biffy As when they deserve Cs.

    The problem with education is that EDUCATORS don't run the industry.

    Real estate agents, bankers, retired machinists and bank clerks are the people making the SCHOOL BOARD decisions that effect your kids' educations.

    I mean how freaking stupid are we?

    Would we put bus drivers in charge of hospitals?

    Would we elect the people in charge of writing software programs from a cadre of clueless imbeciles?

    Of course not.

    They're not qualified to run those industries. That we can ALL see.

    But still, people imagine that non-educators are wholly qualified to tell the educational community how to do their jobs.

    Local control?

    That's nothing but a load of "its all about common sense" horsehocky.
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    Last edited: Mar 2, 2011
  4. kwc57
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    kwc57 BOHICA Obama

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    Standardized testing and the funding tied to it are a major part of the education issue. Standardized testing leads to "teaching to the test". While it is possible to use a standardized test without letting its contents determine curriculum and instruction, frequently, what is not tested is not taught, and how the subject is tested often becomes a model for how to teach the subject. If schools score low on the standardized testing, they stand to lose a major piece of funding. If we did away with standardized testing and let each school system and teacher actually design their curriculum as they see fit, we would see education levels take a dramatic rise.
  5. Mr.Fitnah
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    Mr.Fitnah Dreamcrusher

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    Im sure you have seen the 10th grade curriculum from 1890 .
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  6. Mr.Fitnah
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    Mr.Fitnah Dreamcrusher

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    The NEA is producing the product they want.. docile consumers .
  7. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Gold Member

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    Sorry, boys....you and Techy are concentrating on exactly where the deckchairs on the Titanic should be place...

    The root cause of the problem is the dominance of progressive ideology in what passes for education today.

    1. The “Massachusetts miracle,” in which Bay State students’ soaring test scores broke records, was the direct consequence of the state legislature’s passage of the 1993 Education Reform Act, which established knowledge-based standards for all grades and a rigorous testing system linked to the new standards. And those standards, Massachusetts reformers have acknowledged, are Hirsch’s legacy.

    2. In the new millennium, Massachusetts students have surged upward on the biennial National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP)—“the nation’s report card,” as education scholars call it. On the 2005 NAEP tests, Massachusetts ranked first in the nation in fourth- and eighth-grade reading and fourth- and eighth-grade math. It then repeated the feat in 2007. No state had ever scored first in both grades and both subjects in a single year—let alone for two consecutive test cycles. On another reliable test, the Trends in International Math and Science Studies, the state’s fourth-graders last year ranked second globally in science and third in math, while the eighth-graders tied for first in science and placed sixth in math. (States can volunteer, as Massachusetts did, to have their students compared with national averages.) The United States as a whole finished tenth.
    E. D. Hirsch’s Curriculum for Democracy by Sol Stern, City Journal Autumn 2009

    And, instead of education, the educrats concentrate on indocrination:

    3.... the one book that the fellows had to read in full was Pedagogy of the Oppressed, by the Brazilian educator Paulo Freire.
    This book has achieved near-iconic status in America’s teacher-training programs. In 2003, David Steiner and Susan Rozen published a study examining the curricula of 16 schools of education—14 of them among the top-ranked institutions in the country, according to U.S. News and World Report—and found that Pedagogy of the Oppressed was one of the most frequently assigned texts in their philosophy of education courses.

    4. But rather than dealing with the education of children, Pedagogy of the Oppressed mentions none of the issues that troubled education reformers throughout the twentieth century: testing, standards, curriculum, the role of parents, how to organize schools, what subjects should be taught in various grades, how best to train teachers, the most effective way of teaching disadvantaged students. This ed-school bestseller is, instead, a utopian political tract calling for the overthrow of capitalist hegemony and the creation of classless societies.Pedagogy of the Oppressor by Sol Stern, City Journal Spring 2009


    Here on USMB, we have some of the most politically astute minds in the population, yet you folks on the left refuse to open your eyes as to the deleterious effects of progressive/liberal agendas.

    Thankfully, many eyes have been opened by Barak Hussein Obama, peace be on him, as far as economy and politics.

    I await the same for education.
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  8. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Gold Member

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    And how about this one..

    The evolution in teaching math since the 1950s.

    1. Teaching Math In 1950
    A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is 4/5 of the price. What is his profit?
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    2. Teaching Math In 1960
    A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is 4/5 of the price, or $80. What is his profit?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    3. Teaching Math In 1970
    A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is $80. Did he make a profit?
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    4. Teaching Math In 1980
    A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is $80 and his profit is $20. Your assignment: Underline the number 20.
    ------------------------------ -----------------------------------------
    5. Teaching Math In 1990
    A logger cuts down a beautiful forest because he is selfish and inconsiderate and cares nothing for the habitat of animals or the preservation of our woodlands. He does this so he can make a profit of $20. What do you think of this way of making a living?
    Topic for class participation after answering the question: How did the birds and squirrels feel as the logger cut down their homes? (There are no wrong answers.)
  9. Wry Catcher
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    Wry Catcher VIP Member

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    Expecting all kids to learn the same way is what we have done for ever. I agree with editec but the 'blame' if you will should be more widely spread. Our system extinguishes the innate curiosity of kids early, making learning a choir and not a joy.

    Its been a long time since I read The Republic but Plato's concept as I recall, allowing kids to be kids and explore the world at their own pace, juxtaposed with the needs of today's teachers (and maybe an aide) having to control 30 or more five year olds in a contained environment, offers us a hint as to what's wrong with education today.

    My experience, as an active athletic child was being told to stop, sit still, don't touch; by the time I was in the fourth grade I was bored and recall very clearly one circumstance which framed my perspective on school.

    We were listening to the teacher and the map on the wall behind her was of the world. I had tuned out and began to look at the map, seeing how the west coast of Africa might fit nicely into the Gulf of Mexico I raised my hand and when she looked at me commented on my observation. Her response was, I should sit still and listen carefully.

    My reaction, from that day on I always had a book with me. I'd read with the book in my lap, never wanting to again be admonished for speaking out or expressing any ideas of my own. I read all the Tom Swift Books, all the Hardy Boy books and even Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn in my lap for the next two years. Finally, I moved on to Jr. High and had a couple of teachers who not only lectured, but listened and stimulated my curiosity.
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  10. Mr.Fitnah
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    Mr.Fitnah Dreamcrusher

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    The Promise Of America Is. . . Socialism? That’s exactly what is being taught in many American public schools.

    Under the guise of teaching children to read, the seeds of Socialism are being planted within the minds of young children. Do you believe that the Preamble to the Constitution of the United States mandates the following?

    The People’s basic needs must be met in a country. Needs for housing, education, transportation, and health care overseen by our government system.
    Those are the words being chanted over and over and over by school children around the country. They are part of an educational program called Building Fluency Through Practice and Performance. This section is called ‘The Promise of America’ and it breaks down the fifty-two word single sentence that is the Preamble. Here is the original:

    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
    Disguised as a reading exercise, the Preamble has been turned into a five page choral project with commentary planted inside this very simple sentence. Here is an example. Make note of what the children (R5, R6, & R7) are being asked to read after the words ‘promote the general welfare’:

    [​IMG]

    Building Fluency Through Practice and Performance - Teacher Created Materials
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  11. Zander
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    Zander Gold Member

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    We need private competition in education. Vouchers work. Give parents choices and the public schools will improve.
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  12. kwc57
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    kwc57 BOHICA Obama

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    Uh......first, I blamed standardized tests and unless I'm just really dense, you more or less did too. Not sure what you are disagreeing with.

    Second, I think you may have just accused me of being on the left. I thought we have had enough interactions for you to know better.
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  13. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Gold Member

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    Sorry about that...let me try again...

    my point, poorly made, was that political perspective is the main factor in the educational collapse.

    I hope you have the time to read the links I provided, especially the one re: Hirsch's Content Rich Curriculum.

    It is at variance with the idea summarized in 'teach them to think, and they can always look up what they want to know..."
    No, they need a rich background of factual knowledge, a more traditional approach.
    And making school easier is exactly the wrong approach: kids know when learning is real and when it's bogus.

    The progressives want kids to rediscover every advance civilization has made...absurd.
    Their mantra is that a teacher should be "a guide on the side...not the sage on the stage."
    Catchy, but erroneous.
    Teachers should be sages, stars of the classroom...'else, who needs 'em.
    I want kids to say, 'I want to be just like her!'

    I'm sure you agree.
  14. psikeyhackr
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    psikeyhackr Member

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    I presume that is E.D. Hirsch with his Cultural Literacy. I bought the when William Bennett was talking about it. LOL

    The Battle of Hastings is more important that the Moon landing according to his list. Sorry dude, the technology is determining what the future will be not what we know about the past.

    It's FUTURE SHOCK run for your culture it's obsolete.

    psik
  15. uscitizen
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    uscitizen Senior Member

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    but it must be the teachers unions it surely cannot be the parents fault can it?
    After all there is such an over whelming support of education by parents isn't there?
    I mean they had to start having the PTA meeting in the gymnasiums because of the attendence didn't they?
    Ohh wait that is parental interest in and support of sports not education.

    imho parents have to have someone to blame for what is primarially their own failings.
  16. Quantum Windbag
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    Quantum Windbag VIP Member

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    What the fuck is it with the obsession on the left with teachers unions?



    They are almost correct that the it is not the teachers unions, they just need to add one word to the sentence to make it completely true. It is not just the teachers unions, it is the culture that is fostered by the teachers unions, the school districts, the governments, and the politicians that support the status quo.

    Keep living in your fantasy world where the teachers unions care about the students, Democrats are for poor people, and choice in schools is a tool of rich Republicans to take money away from the schools. Every day more people see the truth and realize that all the Democratic Party cares about is the money they get from unions, and all the unions care about is screwing over the taxpayer to keep their pensions.
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  17. jeffrockit
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    jeffrockit Senior Member

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    If teachers showed this much passion and involvement in improving grades then we may be able to turn around the pitiful performances in many schools.
  18. midcan5
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    midcan5 liberal / progressive

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    This is getting old, if anyone lives near PC would they please wake her, take her to the front door, show her she lives in America, then take her to the nearest playing field and have her talk to parents and ask why little Joanie and Johnnie are not home doing homework, then take her to any group of teachers, and ask if they can give a sense of America's parents and children today when it comes to school and work. Do middle class as that is still the primary source for citizens in America, even if fading in the wide divide.

    Wish I had time to write the stories my wife told me just this week about parent excuses and American student's laziness. Baffling for sure, but telling of why we are growing dumber and dumber as a nation. Oh, by the way, turn on TV too if you want to understand our culture of narcissistic insanity, detective shows, and medical aliments that House can't solve. Then watch Repo shows and whatnot on TruTV for a interesting view of your fellow citizens. ;) Abandon ship, abandon ship! ;)


    http://www.usmessageboard.com/educa...ew-of-waiting-for-superman-2.html#post3065163
    http://www.usmessageboard.com/education-and-history/108215-education-then-and-now.html
    http://www.usmessageboard.com/education-and-history/108215-education-then-and-now-2.html#post2074607
    http://www.usmessageboard.com/educa...liberals-in-the-classroom-11.html#post1749647

    "Not surprisingly, in a land where literacy and numeracy are considered virtues, teachers are revered. Teenagers ranked teaching at the top of their list of favorite professions in a recent survey. Far more graduates of upper schools in Finland apply for admission to teacher-training institutes than are accepted. The overwhelming majority of those who eventually enter the classroom as a teacher make it a lifelong career, even though they are paid no more than their counterparts in other European countries."

    "At the heart of Finland's stellar reputation is a philosophy completely alien to America. The country of 5.3 million in an area twice the size of Missouri considers education an end in itself - not a means to an end. It's a deeply rooted value that is reflected in the Ministry of Education and in all 432 municipalities. In sharp contrast, Americans view education as a stepping stone to better-paying jobs or to impress others. The distinction explains why we are obsessed with marquee names, and how we structure, operate and fund schools." Lessons From Finland: The Way to Education Excellence | CommonDreams.org
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2011
  19. mudwhistle
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    mudwhistle Gold Member

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    Most of the hostility seems to be coming from paid agitators.

    The left claims Wis Gov. Scott Walker wanted to send in a bunch of thugs at the same time the union bused them in droves to the capital. Most of the teachers have gone back to work.
  20. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    You doubt my credentials as it regards this issue?

    That's amusing.

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