It's not the government's debt, stupid, it's your own

[Wonky Pundit]

[Note for the dense: The title references Jim Carville's campaign advice to Clinton: "It's the economy, stupid." Don't take it personally.]

Below is a chart that lists government and private debt from 1870 to the present. (Private debt, of course, includes both businesses and consumers.)

The most immediate consequence of such a huge private debt load is this:

Essentially this chart means that every neighbor of yours is sitting on a pile of debt (most likely living in it -- in an upside down house) and can't spend. In turn, banks are sitting on portfolios of bad debt -- potential defaults -- and hoarding cash. In turn again, businesses have no interest in hiring, investing or spending in a world of uncertain buyers. There's your economic recession ... stagnation ... potential depression ... right there.

Source

 

[Wiseacre]

I think most people instinctively know this and are paying down debt when possible. Which is one reason why a tax cut or stimulus plan to give more money to the lower income folks is not likely to be as effective as it might be under different circumstances. Maybe if we started another world war with the huge spending that it entails might do the trick, but we're talking several trillion dollars and the associated increase in debt. It worked in 1941, not sure it would now.

 

[Warrior102]

[Note for the dense: The title references Jim Carville's campaign advice to Clinton: "It's the economy, stupid." Don't take it personally.]

Below is a chart that lists government and private debt from 1870 to the present. (Private debt, of course, includes both businesses and consumers.)

The most immediate consequence of such a huge private debt load is this:

Essentially this chart means that every neighbor of yours is sitting on a pile of debt (most likely living in it -- in an upside down house) and can't spend. In turn, banks are sitting on portfolios of bad debt -- potential defaults -- and hoarding cash. In turn again, businesses have no interest in hiring, investing or spending in a world of uncertain buyers. There's your economic recession ... stagnation ... potential depression ... right there.

Source

What the hell business is it of the government to measure how much "private citizens" are in debt? They should look out for their own trillion dollar nightmare.

Of course, it's all former president, retired for two/half years now George Bush's fault.

You're an idiot.

 

[Wonky Pundit]

I think most people instinctively know this and are paying down debt when possible. Which is one reason why a tax cut or stimulus plan to give more money to the lower income folks is not likely to be as effective as it might be under different circumstances. Maybe if we started another world war with the huge spending that it entails might do the trick, but we're talking several trillion dollars and the associated increase in debt. It worked in 1941, not sure it would now.

Why would it have to be a war? Revamping and adding to the infrastructure could get into the trillions, depending on what you want to do.

 

[KissMy]

I HAVE NO DEBT!!!

You leveraged indebted assholes need to let your stuff go back to your creditors so prices will drop & I can buy up some good stuff. Quit having the Fed print up money to pay for your stupidity.

 

[Wiseacre]

I think most people instinctively know this and are paying down debt when possible. Which is one reason why a tax cut or stimulus plan to give more money to the lower income folks is not likely to be as effective as it might be under different circumstances. Maybe if we started another world war with the huge spending that it entails might do the trick, but we're talking several trillion dollars and the associated increase in debt. It worked in 1941, not sure it would now.

Why would it have to be a war? Revamping and adding to the infrastructure could get into the trillions, depending on what you want to do.

You ain't going to get several trillion dollars of more spending without a world war. IOW, it ain't happening.

Question: would you spend 4 or 5 trillion dollars in infrastructure spending, knowing these are temporary and probably will be politicized and therefore a lot of it wasted.

 

[B. Kidd]

I owe allegiance to no crown.......especially one that has racked up $14 + trillion in debt with NO WAY OUT!

 

[Wonky Pundit]

I owe allegiance to no crown.......especially one that has racked up $14 + trillion in debt with NO WAY OUT!

But you're still stuck with the taxes (unless you can find someone else on the planet to take you in).

 

[B. Kidd]

I owe allegiance to no crown.......especially one that has racked up $14 + trillion in debt with NO WAY OUT!

But you're still stuck with the taxes (unless you can find someone else on the planet to take you in).

Yeah, I know.....I just reinstated my own citizenship. Didn't want to really join Douger in some shithole 'south of da' border' anyways.

 

[KissMy]

Cut every government employees pay & benefits by at least 35%, then a bunch of other worthless government programs before you start printing money & asking for more taxes. There will be 100 people standing in line to replace those worthless government employees who want to quit after their pay & benefits are cut.

I don't mind paying for food for the poor but allowing people to collect unemployment forever, openended medicaid & all the other garbage crosses the line. There has to be limits so people will want to work & save.

 

[Flopper]

[Note for the dense: The title references Jim Carville's campaign advice to Clinton: "It's the economy, stupid." Don't take it personally.]

Below is a chart that lists government and private debt from 1870 to the present. (Private debt, of course, includes both businesses and consumers.)

The most immediate consequence of such a huge private debt load is this:

Essentially this chart means that every neighbor of yours is sitting on a pile of debt (most likely living in it -- in an upside down house) and can't spend. In turn, banks are sitting on portfolios of bad debt -- potential defaults -- and hoarding cash. In turn again, businesses have no interest in hiring, investing or spending in a world of uncertain buyers. There's your economic recession ... stagnation ... potential depression ... right there.

Source

What the hell business is it of the government to measure how much "private citizens" are in debt? They should look out for their own trillion dollar nightmare.

Of course, it's all former president, retired for two/half years now George Bush's fault.

You're an idiot.

Because the volume of consumer debt effects economic policy

 

[Warrior102]

[Note for the dense: The title references Jim Carville's campaign advice to Clinton: "It's the economy, stupid." Don't take it personally.]

Below is a chart that lists government and private debt from 1870 to the present. (Private debt, of course, includes both businesses and consumers.)

The most immediate consequence of such a huge private debt load is this:


Source

What the hell business is it of the government to measure how much "private citizens" are in debt? They should look out for their own trillion dollar nightmare.

Of course, it's all former president, retired for two/half years now George Bush's fault.

You're an idiot.

Because the volume of consumer debt effects economic policy

What's the unemployment rate in this country? Foreclosures? Home values?

 

[Wonky Pundit]

[Note for the dense: The title references Jim Carville's campaign advice to Clinton: "It's the economy, stupid." Don't take it personally.]

Below is a chart that lists government and private debt from 1870 to the present. (Private debt, of course, includes both businesses and consumers.)

The most immediate consequence of such a huge private debt load is this:


Source

What the hell business is it of the government to measure how much "private citizens" are in debt? They should look out for their own trillion dollar nightmare.

Of course, it's all former president, retired for two/half years now George Bush's fault.

You're an idiot.

Because the volume of consumer debt effects economic policy

 

[Truthmatters]

Some people just dont understand the economy

 

[Warrior102]

Some people just dont understand the economy

The U.S. economy is in the shitter.
Are you away on Mars or somewhere remote?

 

[Wonky Pundit]

I think most people instinctively know this and are paying down debt when possible. Which is one reason why a tax cut or stimulus plan to give more money to the lower income folks is not likely to be as effective as it might be under different circumstances. Maybe if we started another world war with the huge spending that it entails might do the trick, but we're talking several trillion dollars and the associated increase in debt. It worked in 1941, not sure it would now.

Why would it have to be a war? Revamping and adding to the infrastructure could get into the trillions, depending on what you want to do.

You ain't going to get several trillion dollars of more spending without a world war. IOW, it ain't happening.

By "get," do you mean congressional approval to spend that much? Then no; Congress is full of people (on both sides) who can't act like adults.

Question: would you spend 4 or 5 trillion dollars in infrastructure spending, knowing these are temporary and probably will be politicized and therefore a lot of it wasted.

It depends. Fact is, US infrastructure is in almost as bad a way as the economy. Remember the Minneapolis bridge collapse? As long as that $4-5T was going at least 50% to workers' paychecks and 40% to supplies, I'd say it would be worth it.

(And with energy costs climbing, bullet trains between New York and LA would be economically practical, too.)

 

[Quantum Windbag]

[Note for the dense: The title references Jim Carville's campaign advice to Clinton: "It's the economy, stupid." Don't take it personally.]

Below is a chart that lists government and private debt from 1870 to the present. (Private debt, of course, includes both businesses and consumers.)

The most immediate consequence of such a huge private debt load is this:

Essentially this chart means that every neighbor of yours is sitting on a pile of debt (most likely living in it -- in an upside down house) and can't spend. In turn, banks are sitting on portfolios of bad debt -- potential defaults -- and hoarding cash. In turn again, businesses have no interest in hiring, investing or spending in a world of uncertain buyers. There's your economic recession ... stagnation ... potential depression ... right there.

Source

Why shouldn't I take it personally? You do.

As for it being my debt, if you check my credit you will see that I owe zip, which means that, however you want to look at it, it ain't my debt.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Some people just dont understand the economy

No one understands the economy. Some of us are smart enough to realize that, the rest believe the idiots that tell them they get it.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Why would it have to be a war? Revamping and adding to the infrastructure could get into the trillions, depending on what you want to do.

You ain't going to get several trillion dollars of more spending without a world war. IOW, it ain't happening.

By "get," do you mean congressional approval to spend that much? Then no; Congress is full of people (on both sides) who can't act like adults.

Question: would you spend 4 or 5 trillion dollars in infrastructure spending, knowing these are temporary and probably will be politicized and therefore a lot of it wasted.

It depends. Fact is, US infrastructure is in almost as bad a way as the economy. Remember the Minneapolis bridge collapse? As long as that $4-5T was going at least 50% to workers' paychecks and 40% to supplies, I'd say it would be worth it.

(And with energy costs climbing, bullet trains between New York and LA would be economically practical, too.)

What is the fascination with people that want to call themselves progressive with reverting to 19th century technology?

 

[expat_panama]

Some people just dont understand the economy

No one understands the economy. Some of us are smart enough to realize that, the rest believe the idiots that tell them they get it.

This is not an economics thread, it's a religious thread for the Church of Doom'n'Gloom and everyone's singing their favorite hymns "All is Lost" and "Ain't it Awful." Rev. Wonky Pundit reads from the sacred CNN text the following:

every neighbor of yours is sitting on a pile of debt (most likely living in it -- in an upside down house) and can't spend. In turn, banks are sitting on portfolios of bad debt...

Pure fanatical mindless religion.

Of course from an economics standpoint it's not true, but I'm not sure if Rev. Wonky and CNN know they're lying or they're just that stupid. Reality of course (you know like, actual loan balances and bank accounts) is that some of our neighbors owe money to banks and some of them own the banks, and while our average neighbor may owe $45,194, he's also got $234,307 stashed away so even after paying off all debts he's still got $189,113.

fwiw, that goofy debt/gdp number is total debt divided by GDP = $53T/$15T = over three hundred percent. That $53T debt is the $13T that households owe plus the $40T businesses owe, and it's owed to you and I and our neighbors and our businesses. This stuff is all in the latest Fed Flow of Funds Report --it's a 497 KB pdf but they got other format choices on this page. Total debt is on page 60 and household balances are on page 104.