It's been fun.

[HereWeGoAgain]

Who in the fuck are the Republicans to give all of our manufacturing to other nations, then put us so deeply in debt that we will not be able to say no. You damned fools have been supporting the very people that would control us all. All you have to do is look at what happened to Britain when Eisenhower used their debt as leverage during the Suez Canal crisis to realize the situation that the Republicans have put us in.

The newest tax bill is exactly what I am talking about. Instead being fiscally responsible and addressing the deficit, letting all the tax cuts expire, President Obama, the Democrats and Republicans, are now borrowing even more. The 2% cut in SS makes no sense at all, except in the context of defunding the SS system prepatory to a takeover by the multinational bankers.

What we are seeing now is a choice between two parties, neither of which are showing any sense of urgency at all in addressing the fact that we are selling our independence as a nation. In the meantime, we have the Teabaggers and the like, doing all they can to speed the process.

Yeah and the Democrats had nothing to do with the hostile bussiness enviroment that forced them into that move.
Anyone who thinks higher taxes is a good idea is in a bracket that doesnt pay any.
And as far as im concerned they shouldnt be allowed to vote,if they dont put in any bucks into the system why should they have a say about how its spent?
It's pretty obvious how a person who doesnt pay any taxes is going to vote when it comes to legislation that gives them more free money.

 

[goldcatt]

Who in the fuck are the Republicans to give all of our manufacturing to other nations,....

Leave it to OR to take something about the UN and somehow find a way to (incorrectly) blame Republicans. I stopped reading after that first part of the sentence. All I could think of was "huh, who knew Clinton was a Republican when he signed NAFTA?".

Conclusion: OR is nothing more than a partisan hack.

Yep, in fact it's the corporation's themselves that decided to move overseas, but saying that there never should have been a bailout, it was conveniently omitted that GM is one of the companies that has most of its jobs overseas, and that it is continuing to move more jobs over to China.

We can all point to dozens of moves by pols from both parties that got us where we are.

Fact is, we're just looking at the inevitable product of two practices: The unending, cash-fueled election cycle and the expectations of the special interest dollars on which it runs.

 

[Care4all]

FYI-we have the second lowest EFFECTIVE corporate tax rate in the world....

corporation's contributions towards our income taxes WERE paying 50% of our income taxes a few decades ago....but we have continued to lower these taxes on corporations and rewriting tax codes in their benefit and once all is said and done with tax credits and deductions taken by them, there is only one country in the world that has a lower effective corp. income tax rate than the USA, and this is Ireland.

 

[Truthmatters]

The rights leaders dont want it lowered they want it gone along with regulations on our industries.

Like Norquest said they want to drown our countrys government in the bath tub.

Then there are the idiots in this country who support the effort to kill our govenment.

 

[Trajan]

FYI-we have the second lowest EFFECTIVE corporate tax rate in the world....

corporation's contributions towards our income taxes WERE paying 50% of our income taxes a few decades ago....but we have continued to lower these taxes on corporations and rewriting tax codes in their benefit and once all is said and done with tax credits and deductions taken by them, there is only one country in the world that has a lower effective corp. income tax rate than the USA, and this is Ireland.

do you mean we get less gdp % than others, yes that true but I don't think that means we have the second lowest...(?)

I think we had this discussion before, and I am not sure thats so. could you link to that? I found that this doesn't seem to be the case.




The Tax Foundation - U.S. States Lead the World in High Corporate Taxes


Table 1 shows that when the state rates are combined with the federal rate (and accounting for federal deductibility), states are effectively imposing a corporate tax rate which ranges from 35 percent to 41.6 percent. Indeed, 16 U.S. states impose a combined corporate tax rate of more than 40 percent, which is at least 12 percentage points higher than the OECD average of 27.6 percent.

I cannot post the chart, see the link.

they also speak to foreign investment blowback;

A growing body of academic research indicates that foreign direct investment (FDI) can be quite sensitive to the corporate tax rates imposed by a state or country. One recent study of the effects of corporate income taxes on the location of foreign direct investment (FDI) in the United States found a strong relationship between state corporate tax rates and FDI—for every 1 percent increase in a state's corporate tax rate FDI can be expected to fall by 1 percent.4

A new study of income tax rates in 85 countries by economists at the World Bank and Harvard University found a strong effect of both statutory and effective corporate tax rates on FDI as well as entrepreneurship. For example, the average rate of FDI as a share of GDP is 3.36 percent. But a 10 percentage point increase in the statutory corporate rate can be expected to reduce FDI by nearly 2 percentage points.5

In the end, the key to improving America's business tax competitiveness is a partnership between federal and state lawmakers to work toward the common goal of lowering the overall business tax burden in the U.S. Otherwise, the U.S. will continue to fall behind in the global tax race simply by standing still.


and;

The Jury Is In


Also consistent with expectations, U.S.-based companies pay an effective rate of approximately 29 percent, three percentage points above the worldwide average of approximately 26 percent. However, a few countries pay even higher effective rates: Argentina, Japan, Italy and Russia. In comparison, median statutory rates for other geographic areas are: South America, 30 percent; Eastern Europe, 35 percent; Central America, 30 percent; the Near East, 36 percent; Africa, 35 percent; North America, 31 percent; Western Europe, 34 percent; all others (excluding the Caribbean), 36 percent. The conclusion is that, on average, the Pacific Rim Asian and tax haven countries offer competitive tax rates and structures.


also an effective rate chart-
https://media.cpa2biz.com/newsletter/2008/Tax/july/juryin_table.htm


and-

chart
http://www.cato.org/pubs/tbb/tbb_1008-50.pdf

 

[Care4all]

trajan-

I should have clarified and said effective 'Federal' Corporate tax rate....MY BAD/my mistake. toro has a running thread on this with solid links, I can see if I can find it....in the mean time, I can give you some links that could be biased....but fact filled as well.

Effective tax rates varied widely by industry. Over the 2001-2003 period, industry effective tax rates for the 275 corporations ranged from a low of 1.6 percent to a high of 27.7 percent.

In 2003, the range of industry tax rates was even greater, ranging from a low of -30.0 percent (a negative rate) up to a high of 27.9 percent.

* Aerospace and defense companies enjoyed the lowest effective tax rate over the three years, paying only 1.6 percent of their profits in federal income taxes. This industry's taxes declined sharply over the three years, falling to -30.0 percent of profits in 2003.
* Other very low-tax industries, paying less than half the statutory 35 percent tax rate over the entire 2001-2003 period, included: transportation (4.3 percent), industrial and farm equipment (6.2 percent), telecommunications (7.5 percent), electronics and electrical equipment (10.8 percent), petroleum and pipelines (13.3 percent), miscellaneous services (14.4 percent), gas and electric utilities (14.4 percent), computers, office equipment, software and data (16.0 percent), and metals & metal products (17.4 percent).
* Not a single industry paid an effective tax rate of more than 29 percent, either for the entire three-year period or in any given year.

Within industries, effective tax rates also varied widely. For example, over the three-year period, average tax rates on oil companies ranged from 3.0 percent for Devon Energy up to 31.4 percent on Marathon Oil. Among aerospace and defense companies, three-year effective tax rates ranged from a low of -18.8 percent for Boeing up to a high of 25.0 percent for General Dynamics.
The Gap Between Statutory and Real Corporate Tax Rates

Figure 3. U.S. Effective Domestic Corporate Tax Rate (Adjusted),
Fiscal 1997-2006

http://ereports.tax.org/www/features.nsf/Articles/9B96723BDBA236078525744B0060BAFA?OpenDocument

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...+us&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

EDIT:

ok, here is more recent figures and it looks like 3 to 4 countries are lower....and ireland must be incorporated with the united kingdom?

ADDITIONAL CHART AND INFO just found on what our corporate taxes cost in relation to gdp and that of other countries:

 

[Truthmatters]

Tax Foundation - SourceWatch


The Tax Foundation is the oldest non-profit tax think tank in the country, founded in 1937. Their stated mission is "to educate taxpayers about sound tax policy and the size of the tax burden borne by Americans at all levels of government." It also argues for a tax system characterized by "simplicity", "neutrality", "stability", "transparency" and "growth-promotion".[1]

It was founded at the University Club in New York. Founding members included:

Alfred P. Sloan, General Motors Corporation, chairman
Donaldson Brown, General Motors Corporation financial vice president
William S. Farish, Standard Oil Company, President
Lewis H. Brown, President of the Johns-Manville Corporation

 

[Care4all]

My point is that the United States IS ONE OF THE BEST countries for corporations to reside.....and I don't think they are going to be running off to another country so easily.

I do think that our corporate taxes at the federal level are really screwed up....especially when so many corporations pay ZERO or even pay a MINUS percentage due to all the tax credits they received while other corporations pay as high as 27%....

that's just messed up

 

[Truthmatters]

And these fools BUY what the very people that benifit from these policies say.

They want to be lied to.

 

[Trajan]

trajan-

I should have clarified and said effective 'Federal' Corporate tax rate....MY BAD/my mistake. toro has a running thread on this with solid links, I can see if I can find it....in the mean time, I can give you some links that could be biased....but fact filled as well.

Effective tax rates varied widely by industry. Over the 2001-2003 period, industry effective tax rates for the 275 corporations ranged from a low of 1.6 percent to a high of 27.7 percent.

In 2003, the range of industry tax rates was even greater, ranging from a low of -30.0 percent (a negative rate) up to a high of 27.9 percent.

* Aerospace and defense companies enjoyed the lowest effective tax rate over the three years, paying only 1.6 percent of their profits in federal income taxes. This industry's taxes declined sharply over the three years, falling to -30.0 percent of profits in 2003.
* Other very low-tax industries, paying less than half the statutory 35 percent tax rate over the entire 2001-2003 period, included: transportation (4.3 percent), industrial and farm equipment (6.2 percent), telecommunications (7.5 percent), electronics and electrical equipment (10.8 percent), petroleum and pipelines (13.3 percent), miscellaneous services (14.4 percent), gas and electric utilities (14.4 percent), computers, office equipment, software and data (16.0 percent), and metals & metal products (17.4 percent).
* Not a single industry paid an effective tax rate of more than 29 percent, either for the entire three-year period or in any given year.

Within industries, effective tax rates also varied widely. For example, over the three-year period, average tax rates on oil companies ranged from 3.0 percent for Devon Energy up to 31.4 percent on Marathon Oil. Among aerospace and defense companies, three-year effective tax rates ranged from a low of -18.8 percent for Boeing up to a high of 25.0 percent for General Dynamics.
The Gap Between Statutory and Real Corporate Tax Rates

Figure 3. U.S. Effective Domestic Corporate Tax Rate (Adjusted),
Fiscal 1997-2006

http://ereports.tax.org/www/features.nsf/Articles/9B96723BDBA236078525744B0060BAFA?OpenDocument

taxanalysts.com: Featured Articles -- The Effective Corporate Tax Rate Is Falling

EDIT:

ok, here is more recent figures and it looks like 3 to 4 countries are lower....and ireland must be incorporated with the united kingdom?

ADDITIONAL CHART AND INFO just found on what our corporate taxes cost in relation to gdp and that of other countries:

*shrugs* okay. I guess I took your point overall was speaking to the tax environment worldwide and the overall burden that makes it say more profitable for a co. to move to say India.....thats another debate encompassing the whole enchilada. There are variables like regulatory and environmental consideration that skew the the overall take away.

 

[Paulie]

I have 4 tb of sites stored for offline data.. I recommend you do the same.
Welcome to Hell.
Does anyone have some blue corn seed and a PayPal account ?
UN mulls internet regulation options - Security - Technology - News - iTnews.com.au

Do you have a bunker filled with canned goods also?

If the time ever comes that having a bunker filled with canned goods becomes a life saving commodity, you're going to feel like an idiot for facetiously asking that.

 

[Trajan]

My point is that the United States IS ONE OF THE BEST countries for corporations to reside.....and I don't think they are going to be running off to another country so easily.

I do think that our corporate taxes at the federal level are really screwed up....especially when so many corporations pay ZERO or even pay a MINUS percentage due to all the tax credits they received while other corporations pay as high as 27%....

that's just messed up

I agree it may appear so. but at the end of the day, there is no reason for a co. to produce in India unless there is a profit or revenue motive, net margin= all in.

I will bet Boeing, counting its tax breaks and other considerations probably pays below 15% even 10%...thats because we have skewed the rules etc. to keep them here, its better say to get some milk form the cow here than less from a cow that isn't here when you consider all of the other effects like the jobs they have here that pays people who spend here. Add to that that the tax burden makes it attractive to use say off shore entities to hold the money outside the US, for a year period, ( 04 I think) U.S. multinationals were allowed to repatriate foreign profits at a 5.25% rate, this is better than waiting them put as they carry it forward etc. and we needed the boost from spending that was realized when that money was brought back in. Now I agree that that makes it more attractive to keep it off shore IF the rate were always that low, so the answer lies somewhere in between, plus the WTO regs have a say ion this too.

 

[MikeK]

[...]

The problem is, that now the "Middle" looks an awful lot like the "Right." Unfortunately, this president doesn't have the backbone to slow it down. Someone somewhere has to have a picture of him with his pants down with a 10-year old boy or some shit. There's no good explanation for this bizarre behavior of his.

I agree with you but there is a very good explanation for Obama's controversial actions -- a simple and rather obvious explanation. Candidate Obama was given a lot of money by the financial sector, which in effect facilitated his being elected President and put him in the pocket of the rich. This is why he so eagerly negotiated a compromise on the tax-cut extension.

Obama's reality is easy to assess. He is a young, dedicated family man with no significant resources to fall back on when he leaves Office so he is carefully avoiding stepping on the toes of any entity which effectively could retaliate against him in the future.

In the simplest terms it is naive to assume that Obama is concerned with being re-elected. He has achieved the pinnacle of political power and is far more interested in what's best for the Obama family than what's best for the American middle class.

I voted for Obama because it was either him or McCain. I hope we have a better choice in 2012.

 

[Trajan]

I have 4 tb of sites stored for offline data.. I recommend you do the same.
Welcome to Hell.
Does anyone have some blue corn seed and a PayPal account ?
UN mulls internet regulation options - Security - Technology - News - iTnews.com.au

Do you have a bunker filled with canned goods also?

If the time ever comes that having a bunker filled with canned goods becomes a life saving commodity, you're going to feel like an idiot for facetiously asking that.

hey, glenn says buy!!!

Get an Emergency Food Supply and Survival Food Storage

 

[Care4all]

trajan-

I should have clarified and said effective 'Federal' Corporate tax rate....MY BAD/my mistake. toro has a running thread on this with solid links, I can see if I can find it....in the mean time, I can give you some links that could be biased....but fact filled as well.

Effective tax rates varied widely by industry. Over the 2001-2003 period, industry effective tax rates for the 275 corporations ranged from a low of 1.6 percent to a high of 27.7 percent.

In 2003, the range of industry tax rates was even greater, ranging from a low of -30.0 percent (a negative rate) up to a high of 27.9 percent.

* Aerospace and defense companies enjoyed the lowest effective tax rate over the three years, paying only 1.6 percent of their profits in federal income taxes. This industry's taxes declined sharply over the three years, falling to -30.0 percent of profits in 2003.
* Other very low-tax industries, paying less than half the statutory 35 percent tax rate over the entire 2001-2003 period, included: transportation (4.3 percent), industrial and farm equipment (6.2 percent), telecommunications (7.5 percent), electronics and electrical equipment (10.8 percent), petroleum and pipelines (13.3 percent), miscellaneous services (14.4 percent), gas and electric utilities (14.4 percent), computers, office equipment, software and data (16.0 percent), and metals & metal products (17.4 percent).
* Not a single industry paid an effective tax rate of more than 29 percent, either for the entire three-year period or in any given year.

Within industries, effective tax rates also varied widely. For example, over the three-year period, average tax rates on oil companies ranged from 3.0 percent for Devon Energy up to 31.4 percent on Marathon Oil. Among aerospace and defense companies, three-year effective tax rates ranged from a low of -18.8 percent for Boeing up to a high of 25.0 percent for General Dynamics.
The Gap Between Statutory and Real Corporate Tax Rates

Figure 3. U.S. Effective Domestic Corporate Tax Rate (Adjusted),
Fiscal 1997-2006

http://ereports.tax.org/www/features.nsf/Articles/9B96723BDBA236078525744B0060BAFA?OpenDocument

taxanalysts.com: Featured Articles -- The Effective Corporate Tax Rate Is Falling

EDIT:

ok, here is more recent figures and it looks like 3 to 4 countries are lower....and ireland must be incorporated with the united kingdom?

ADDITIONAL CHART AND INFO just found on what our corporate taxes cost in relation to gdp and that of other countries:

*shrugs* okay. I guess I took your point overall was speaking to the tax environment worldwide and the overall burden that makes it say more profitable for a co. to move to say India.....thats another debate encompassing the whole enchilada. There are variables like regulatory and environmental consideration that skew the the overall take away.

yes, I can see how environmental regs could affect corporations as well....

the thing is, some corporations are in the WELFARE STATE, when it comes to the zero taxes a company making billions in profit pay and the money in credits from the fed that they still receive, yet OTHER corporations of the same size, are being taxed at a high 27% of their profits....

Our tax code is really really messed up and needs to be reformed, where this does not happen imho.

 

[Intense]

FYI-we have the second lowest EFFECTIVE corporate tax rate in the world....

corporation's contributions towards our income taxes WERE paying 50% of our income taxes a few decades ago....but we have continued to lower these taxes on corporations and rewriting tax codes in their benefit and once all is said and done with tax credits and deductions taken by them, there is only one country in the world that has a lower effective corp. income tax rate than the USA, and this is Ireland.

Yes, and with loop holes. And where that fails, the tax is transferred to the shelf price. So in the end, the consumer pays it. Stock holders also pay tax on dividend, no? Your 401K, well at some point also be taxed, right? How much tax does NPR pay? Is that fair to their competitors?

 

[Care4all]

FYI-we have the second lowest EFFECTIVE corporate tax rate in the world....

corporation's contributions towards our income taxes WERE paying 50% of our income taxes a few decades ago....but we have continued to lower these taxes on corporations and rewriting tax codes in their benefit and once all is said and done with tax credits and deductions taken by them, there is only one country in the world that has a lower effective corp. income tax rate than the USA, and this is Ireland.

Yes, and with loop holes. And where that fails, the tax is transferred to the shelf price. So in the end, the consumer pays it. Stock holders also pay tax on dividend, no? Your 401K, well at some point also be taxed, right? How much tax does NPR pay? Is that fair to their competitors?

intense,
I have no problem with a corporation's tax being transferred to the consumer WHO USES their products....instead of making me pay for what taxes are due of theirs, for a product of theirs, that I do not use.

NPR is a non profit, and as with ALL NON PROFITS, they pay no taxes because they don't make profit or distribute profits to any individual as income.

 

[Intense]

FYI-we have the second lowest EFFECTIVE corporate tax rate in the world....

corporation's contributions towards our income taxes WERE paying 50% of our income taxes a few decades ago....but we have continued to lower these taxes on corporations and rewriting tax codes in their benefit and once all is said and done with tax credits and deductions taken by them, there is only one country in the world that has a lower effective corp. income tax rate than the USA, and this is Ireland.

Yes, and with loop holes. And where that fails, the tax is transferred to the shelf price. So in the end, the consumer pays it. Stock holders also pay tax on dividend, no? Your 401K, well at some point also be taxed, right? How much tax does NPR pay? Is that fair to their competitors?

intense,
I have no problem with a corporation's tax being transferred to the consumer WHO USES their products....instead of making me pay for what taxes are due of theirs, for a product of theirs, that I do not use.

NPR is a non profit, and as with ALL NON PROFITS, they pay no taxes because they don't make profit or distribute profits to any individual as income.

It may not be that simple with NPR. That Non Profit Status is abused by many. NPR owns properties, has paid advertising? They are becoming more like everyone they compete with that is not Non-Profit. Does the Government still need to be holding their hand? Why? I am against subsidies pretty much in every form Care. Should that sentiment grow, we will see a more forthright Economy result. We supplement too much against our will, too much without even being aware of it.