Italy unearths large Iraq arms deal

[Ruby]

Screw the UN. It's consists of some of the most corrupt people on earth.

It dosent change the fact that we waged a war of aggression that has a definition the US agreed to! We are part of the UN and certainly some of the corrupt people in it you speak of are us. It STILL dosent negate the fact that we waged a war of aggression against a sovereign nation.

We are violating numerous principles we claimed to hold.

 

[dilloduck]

It dosent change the fact that we waged a war of aggression that has a definition the US agreed to! We are part of the UN and certainly some of the corrupt people in it you speak of are us. It STILL dosent negate the fact that we waged a war of aggression against a sovereign nation.

We are violating numerous principles we claimed to hold.

It also doesn't change the fact that there are a bunch of assholes out there that hate America so much that they attack us and fund people that attack us. When YOU get a promise from them to cease fire and stop the madness I'll be all for bringing our troops home.

 

[Ruby]

It also doesn't change the fact that there are a bunch of assholes out there that hate America so much that they attack us and fund people that attack us. When YOU get a promise from them to cease fire and stop the madness I'll be all for bringing our troops home.

I see, just keep avoiding the truth you cant deal with. We waged an aggressive war which is considered one of the highest crimes against humanity and all you can do is sputter around in a silly fashion.

Waging an aggressive war against Iraq isnt going to help you one IOTA against people who hate america and who are willing to attack and it certainly isnt going to justify it.

 

[dilloduck]

Waging an aggressive war against Iraq isnt going to help you one IOTA against people who hate america and who are willing to attack and it certainly isnt going to justify it.

We are not fighting a war against Iraq. It's time you figure this out. You would be hard pressed to prove that our actions there against Al Qaeda haven't helped one IOTA and if we have killed one single arab asshole who was intent on killing Americans its justified to me. How many attacks on America, Americans and it's allies will it take before you think military action is justified?

 

[Ruby]

We are not fighting a war against Iraq. It's time you figure this out. You would be hard pressed to prove that our actions there against Al Qaeda haven't helped one IOTA and if we have killed one single arab asshole who was intent on killing Americans its justified to me. How many attacks on America, Americans and it's allies will it take before you think military action is justified?

Yes you are fighting a war against Iraq. It is Iraq we invaded. It is Iraq we occupy. It is Iraqis who resist this war of aggression and they have a right to fight off the invaders and occupiers...and they are.

Attacks on america do not justify invading nations who did NOT attack us.

So its ok in your mind to kill thousands and thousands of people, wound thousands more, destroy a nation of millions to kill ONE arab asshole huh?

Al quada wasnt there before the US invasion, we dont have a right to invite enemies to fight against us IN SOMEONE ELSES nation. What a ridiculous war-crimes-human-rights-abusing notion THAT IS!

Iraqis were just caught trying to obtain 40 million dollars worth of weapons via the black market to arm the RESISTANCE to the foreign occupation....it IS Iraqis who are resisting and fighting the US in Iraq.

 

[Ruby]

BTW, an interesting question.

Is 9/11 justified if we can prove it killed ONE ASSHOLE (maybe a child molesting asshole that was going to go pick up a child to rape and kill later) or maybe it was ONE ASSHOLE that was intent on attacking the middle east, arabs and their allies.

 

[Dirt McGirt]

Well we arent going to change the reality if we wont face the truth about all this and we are bound to repeat the mistake and create more bloodshed if we dont. The truth is we didnt have a right to do this. The truth is they have a right to resist us and we have no moral basis to try and strip them of that right....but then again we also dont have a right to feed our soldiers to them and their death, we have a duty to protect their lives as well.

The reality is that this is the pretzel position WE put ourselves and the Iraqi people in, should we not think about it and not learn from it and not fix it by ceasing the actions deemed wrong?

I find you just as delusional as the staunchest Bush apologist. You keep talking about resistance like the war just started and it's only them against us. That's not the reality of the situation anymore. We do have a moral and legal basis to provide security and safeguard the people of Iraq, RIGHT NOW. It's like you're trying to live 2003 all over again. I've read the things you've writen 4 years ago. Try hopping in your time machine and joining us here in relevant 2008.

Oh and while you're at it bring Chips Rafferty back to the future as well. Seeing how he's still begrudging the Catholics for the Spanish Inquisition, you might have to go as far back as the 15th century to get him.

 

[dilloduck]

Yes you are fighting a war against Iraq. It is Iraq we invaded. It is Iraq we occupy. It is Iraqis who resist this war of aggression and they have a right to fight off the invaders and occupiers...and they are.

Attacks on america do not justify invading nations who did NOT attack us.

So its ok in your mind to kill thousands and thousands of people, wound thousands more, destroy a nation of millions to kill ONE arab asshole huh?

Al quada wasnt there before the US invasion, we dont have a right to invite enemies to fight against us IN SOMEONE ELSES nation. What a ridiculous war-crimes-human-rights-abusing notion THAT IS!

Iraqis were just caught trying to obtain 40 million dollars worth of weapons via the black market to arm the RESISTANCE to the foreign occupation....it IS Iraqis who are resisting and fighting the US in Iraq.

We are training and supplying and army of Iraqis. We are not fighting those Iraqis. We didn't invite Al qaeda there--those assholes go and kill people wherever they want--which in case you STILL don't get it is THE PROBLEM !!!!! I don't recall inviting Iran to the war either but it didn't stop them. Are you gonna bitch about them invading a soveriegn country? Of course not---you will deny they even exist or make excuses for them being there.

 

[Ruby]

I find you just as delusional as the staunchest Bush apologist. You keep talking about resistance like the war just started and it's only them against us. That's not the reality of the situation anymore. We do have a moral and legal basis to provide security and safeguard the people of Iraq, RIGHT NOW. It's like you're trying to live 2003 all over again. I've read the things you've writen 4 years ago. Try hopping in your time machine and joining us here in relevant 2008.

Oh and while you're at it bring Chips Rafferty back to the future as well. Seeing how he's still begrudging the Catholics for the Spanish Inquisition, you might have to go as far back as the 15th century to get him.

We dont have a moral or legal basis to be there. It was a war of aggression and you cant make that legal after the fact.

The resistance (made of many various groups and are not one cohesive movement) have only gained members, it has all gotten stronger AGAINST the US. We cant protect Iraqis and even they say they would feel SAFER when US troops are GONE.

You cant just wipe out the last few years because they point to the US as a major problem and point to our illegal actions or pretend they have no baring on NOW.

Try hopping in your reality machine and realize that we arent there to protect Iraqi people, we are there to build a new permanent military base, a large lavish embassy, profiteer on the "re-building", and to keep our economic policies that we put in place.

 

[Ruby]

We are training and supplying and army of Iraqis. We are not fighting those Iraqis. We didn't invite Al qaeda there--those assholes go and kill people wherever they want--which in case you STILL don't get it is THE PROBLEM !!!!! I don't recall inviting Iran to the war either but it didn't stop them. Are you gonna bitch about them invading a soveriegn country? Of course not---you will deny they even exist or make excuses for them being there.

Yes you are fighting "Those" Iraqis. The Iraqis we arm and train are using those weapons and training against us...

Are you saying you havent heard about the problems with Iraqi police being part of the resistance or what the link here highlights...people in the Iraqi puppet govt trying to buy 40 million worth of weapons via the black market to supply the resistance more?

Yes we did invite alqaeda and thats the slogan lately isnt it..."fight them there so we dont have to fight them here". Of course this propaganda notion has been around for a long time. In Vietnam we told people if they were to go communist then we would be fighting communism off in america so it was important to go fight them there and defeat communism there. This is all weasel speak for "lets not allow them to self-determine". Well we lost in Vietnam, they went communist. Did the world fall apart? Was the US taken over by communism?

Al quada didnt have a presence in Iraq until after we tore the country down into chaos.

The Iraqi people were SAFER before america tore the country down into chaos.

The Iraqi people had a functioning infrastructure (water, power, schools) before america tore the country down into chaos.

 

[Ruby]

No answer to the 9/11 question huh? I ask again since you think its okay to kill thousands to get ONE ASSHOLE.

Was 9/11 worth it if it killed ONE ASSHOLE?

 

[Dirt McGirt]

We dont have a moral or legal basis to be there. It was a war of aggression and you cant make that legal after the fact.

The resistance (made of many various groups and are not one cohesive movement) have only gained members, it has all gotten stronger AGAINST the US. We cant protect Iraqis and even they say they would feel SAFER when US troops are GONE.

You cant just wipe out the last few years because they point to the US as a major problem and point to our illegal actions or pretend they have no baring on NOW.

Try hopping in your reality machine and realize that we arent there to protect Iraqi people, we are there to build a new permanent military base, a large lavish embassy, profiteer on the "re-building", and to keep our economic policies that we put in place.

Being in Sweden, the current anti-war talking points haven't made their way to you yet. You still have the old talking points from 2003. Here let me update you on the anti-war talking points of 2007:

* Nobody's profiteering on the re-building, we're actually losing money off the war at a tune of billions per week.

* The economic policies that we put in place aren't working. Apparently the markets of Iraq are not bustling like Indiana in the summertime.

* The Iraqi people are not united against the US, they are bitterly engaged in a civil war amongst themselves.

* The Iraqi government is just a puppet government. According to the Pottery Barn rule, the US is actually responsible for the reconstruction of Iraq and responsible for rebuilding their infrastructure, to include providing them with energy and water.

(Actually, that last talking point is flexible. When the topic changes to withdrawing or pullout, then that talking point changes to "it's on them.")

I understand that your 2004 anti-war talking points contradict the anti-war talking points of 2008 and say the exact opposite of what was said 4 years ago, but I realize you're in Sweden and I'm just trying to help you out with the new rhetoric. You're welcome.

 

[Dirt McGirt]

No answer to the 9/11 question huh? I ask again since you think its okay to kill thousands to get ONE ASSHOLE.

Was 9/11 worth it if it killed ONE ASSHOLE?

Nobody answered you because your question was dumb not because you stumped everyone.

Contrasting the invasion of Iraq to 9/11 is retarded, especially for an English teacher. Iraq wasn't about getting rid of one bad guy. Why are you going way out of your way to justify a religious extremist act of terrorism like 9/11? Do you hate your country that much?

I think Bush is the worst President ever and have made many criticisms of the war, but people like you have me defending him. Jesus Christ, you're like a whole new brand of looney left.

 

[Ruby]

Being in Sweden, the current anti-war talking points haven't made their way to you yet. You still have the old talking points from 2003. Here let me update you on the anti-war talking points of 2007:

* Nobody's profiteering on the re-building, we're actually losing money off the war at a tune of billions per week.

* The economic policies that we put in place aren't working. Apparently the markets of Iraq are not bustling like Indiana in the summertime.

* The Iraqi people are not united against the US, they are bitterly engaged in a civil war amongst themselves.

* The Iraqi government is just a puppet government. According to the Pottery Barn rule, the US is actually responsible for the reconstruction of Iraq and responsible for rebuilding their infrastructure, to include providing them with energy and water.

(Actually, that last talking point is flexible. When the topic changes to withdrawing or pullout, then that talking point changes to "it's on them.")

I understand that your 2004 anti-war talking points contradict the anti-war talking points of 2008 and say the exact opposite of what was said 4 years ago, but I realize you're in Sweden and I'm just trying to help you out with the new rhetoric. You're welcome.

Being in Sweden I have access to more news than you...I actually get to see longer and more in depth coverage as well. I have even been able to see films that are BANNED in the US (land of free speech! LOL)

The american tax payer is losing money, but the contractors and corporate interests we invaded for are making huge profits!!

Of course the economic policies that US put in place arent working for Iraqis, but they arent meant to. They are meant to work for large multi-national corps...the same corps who own our politicians and the real entities our politicians work for, represent and serve.

I think you are quite confused, the anti-war people were saying all this was going to happen and the predictions made by the anti-war folks were right. THIS IS WHY people were anti-war, because it was going to waste lives and resources and only serve corrupt greedy interests.

http://iraqforsale.org/about.php

Maybe you should watch somthing that is beyond a 60 second "story" or beyond a 10 second sound bite.

You are a great example of how ill-informed people become when they think they can be informed on complicted issues between commercials.

 

[Ruby]

Nobody answered you because your question was dumb not because you stumped everyone.

Contrasting the invasion of Iraq to 9/11 is retarded, especially for an English teacher. Iraq wasn't about getting rid of one bad guy. Why are you going way out of your way to justify a religious extremist act of terrorism like 9/11? Do you hate your country that much?

I think Bush is the worst President ever and have made many criticisms of the war, but people like you have me defending him. Jesus Christ, you're like a whole new brand of looney left.

You should read more, Dilloduck says all that death is worth it if it kills ONE ARAB ASSHOLE. So if killing thousands is worth it to kill just ONE ASSHOLE, then it follows 9/11 must have been worth it as long as it killed ONE ASSHOLE.

It seems to be dilloducks point you dont like, maybe you should take it up with him.

 

[Dirt McGirt]

Being in Sweden I have access to more news than you...I actually get to see longer and more in depth coverage as well. I have even been able to see films that are BANNED in the US (land of free speech! LOL)

Most of the films that are banned were because of old obscenity laws and have since been unbanned. Films banned nationwide today are mostly banned because of copyright and distribution rights, not free speech. Child pornography and snuff films are still illegal though. So if you're referring to your collection of illegal porn, than you got me there. I guess the Swedes are just better than us when it comes to filming child porn and masochism.

But speaking of banned films, I'll be glad to tell any of your Swede pals how Mad Max ends.

The american tax payer is losing money, but the contractors and corporate interests we invaded for are making huge profits!!

Of course the economic policies that US put in place arent working for Iraqis, but they arent meant to. They are meant to work for large multi-national corps...the same corps who own our politicians and the real entities our politicians work for, represent and serve.

I think you are quite confused, the anti-war people were saying all this was going to happen and the predictions made by the anti-war folks were right. THIS IS WHY people were anti-war, because it was going to waste lives and resources and only serve corrupt greedy interests.

http://iraqforsale.org/about.php

Maybe you should watch somthing that is beyond a 60 second "story" or beyond a 10 second sound bite.

You are a great example of how ill-informed people become when they think they can be informed on complicted issues between commercials.

Who's ill-informed? You're not saying anything that most people didn't already know. This administration talked about the strategy to rebuild Iraq with their oil reserves and turn it into a Western Democracy (aka a capitalist society) BEFORE the war started. This was common knowledge to anyone who paid attention, it wasn't some secret code uncovered in the Downing Street Memo, Sherlock.

But again, you're still stuck on the pretenses of the war...you're so 2003. It's 2007 and the CURRENT situation in Iraq is relevant now. The Iraqis are blowing each other up, we're responsible for their security, and all you can say is that they'll stop once we leave. Naive and stupid.

 

[Dirt McGirt]

You should read more, Dilloduck says all that death is worth it if it kills ONE ARAB ASSHOLE. So if killing thousands is worth it to kill just ONE ASSHOLE, then it follows 9/11 must have been worth it as long as it killed ONE ASSHOLE.

It seems to be dilloducks point you dont like, maybe you should take it up with him.

If that was intended solely for Dilloduck then you should learn to use the quote function. You post something without specifying who it's directed to, twice, it's considered generalized and open to all.

 

[Ruby]

Most of the films that are banned were because of old obscenity laws and have since been unbanned. Films banned nationwide today are mostly banned because of copyright and distribution rights, not free speech. Child pornography and snuff films are still illegal though. So if you're referring to your collection of illegal porn, than you got me there. I guess the Swedes are just better than us when it comes to filming child porn and masochism.

But speaking of banned films, I'll be glad to tell any of your Swede pals how Mad Max ends.


Who's ill-informed? You're not saying anything that most people didn't already know. This administration talked about the strategy to rebuild Iraq with their oil reserves and turn it into a Western Democracy (aka a capitalist society) BEFORE the war started. This was common knowledge to anyone who paid attention, it wasn't some secret code uncovered in the Downing Street Memo, Sherlock.

But again, you're still stuck on the pretenses of the war...you're so 2003. It's 2007 and the CURRENT situation in Iraq is relevant now. The Iraqis are blowing each other up, we're responsible for their security, and all you can say is that they'll stop once we leave. Naive and stupid.

You can kid yourself all you want on why they are banned, but it isnt wise to be helpful in erroding freedom of information and speech.

If you already know this stuff then why so many protestations and support for a continued presence. We are profiteering and invaded for greed purposes. No imminent danger, no WMD...just oil and profit.

War of aggression, just as we did to Panama. I dont think people are very well informed at all that it describes what we have done to Iraq and its population.

You want to move away from the blame we have and say that we created a mess so NOW WE MUST STAY..that isnt new schtick. It just isnt valid, you cant use an aggression of war to justify an illegal, immoral and violent occupation.

You sound like the US admin did back when they wanted to discredit europe by calling them "old europe" as if wars of aggression were the new "in" thing to do.

It is also not our right to turn them into anything, much less a western democracy. Whatever happened to the rights of self-determination? Oh lets pretend thats just "out-dated" as well, along with human rights and our distaste of torture.

 

[Dirt McGirt]

You can kid yourself all you want on why they are banned, but it isnt wise to be helpful in erroding freedom of information and speech.

By all means sweetheart, name the movies that you've seen in Sweden that are banned NATIONWIDE in the US then. Any movie banned nationwide involves the dispute of law (such as copyright infringement, illegal distribution, unauthorized filming, child pornography, etc.) and is not a free speech issue. Mad Max and The Texas Chainsaw Massacre are banned in Sweden though. Please, do explain why those films are banned in wonderful ol' Sweden and can be picked up at any movie rental place in the US for about a buck.

If you already know this stuff then why so many protestations and support for a continued presence. We are profiteering and invaded for greed purposes. No imminent danger, no WMD...just oil and profit.

What does our continued presence in the country now have to do with not finding WMD's? We're there right now providing security for a country that has no adequate police force and no military. Tell me Ruby, what happens to Iraq if we just said fuck it and left tomorrow?

 

[Ruby]

By all means sweetheart, name the movies that you've seen in Sweden that are banned NATIONWIDE in the US then. Any movie banned nationwide involves the dispute of law (such as copyright infringement, illegal distribution, unauthorized filming, child pornography, etc.) and is not a free speech issue. Mad Max and The Texas Chainsaw Massacre are banned in Sweden though. Please, do explain why those films are banned in wonderful ol' Sweden and can be picked up at any movie rental place in the US for about a buck.


What does our continued presence in the country now have to do with not finding WMD's? We're there right now providing security for a country that has no adequate police force and no military. Tell me Ruby, what happens to Iraq if we just said fuck it and left tomorrow?

One documentary that is banned in the US is named "the panama deception". Another is called Conspiracy of silence (this one is about pedophelia and some of the higher levels it reached in the US). There is a BBC documentary about Bush and the stealing of the election that is also banned.

Mad max and texas chainsaw massacre arent banned here, you can even rent em in your local video store.

Our continued presence hinges on a lie to cover our war of aggression and while it may convenient for you to just want to sweep that under the carpet, it dosent mean that it can be.

I dont have a crystal ball, when the US leaves there are various possibilities on what would happen. I am doubtful that bloodshed would cease, but they can get on towards self-determination and build their nation as they want to and whatever struggle that entails is theirs. There is no justification for denying such rights of self determination to the Iraqi people.

But I would guess that the US contracts would dry up and the Iraqis wouldnt choose them to rebuild nor pay them what they currently get. The oil be would nationalized again as well. Of course those are the reasons we wont say fuck it, we are there to rape and pillage and we arent leaving Iraq til we have installed ourselves in position to keep the rape and pillage going.

It seems to be the new way to justify wars and invasions...hide it under the pretense of "humanitarian aid". Invasions, bombings and occupations are not humanitarian aid. First we create the mess and THEN use that same mess as an excuse to stay.