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ROME (Reuters) An Italian scientist says he has reproduced the Shroud of Turin, a feat that he says proves definitively that the linen some Christians revere as Jesus Christ's burial cloth is a medieval fake.
Italian scientist reproduces Shroud of Turin - Yahoo! News
ROME (Reuters) An Italian scientist says he has reproduced the Shroud of Turin, a feat that he says proves definitively that the linen some Christians revere as Jesus Christ's burial cloth is a medieval fake.
Italian scientist reproduces Shroud of Turin - Yahoo! News
ROME (Reuters) An Italian scientist says he has reproduced the Shroud of Turin, a feat that he says proves definitively that the linen some Christians revere as Jesus Christ's burial cloth is a medieval fake.
Italian scientist reproduces Shroud of Turin - Yahoo! News
How does reproducing it prove its fake?
All it proves is that with modern chemistry we can reproduce it. I must be missing something.
ROME (Reuters) An Italian scientist says he has reproduced the Shroud of Turin, a feat that he says proves definitively that the linen some Christians revere as Jesus Christ's burial cloth is a medieval fake.
Italian scientist reproduces Shroud of Turin - Yahoo! News
How does reproducing it prove its fake?
All it proves is that with modern chemistry we can reproduce it. I must be missing something.
It does prove it's in doubt now, that since it can be reproduced there is nothing to prove it is real.
ROME (Reuters) An Italian scientist says he has reproduced the Shroud of Turin, a feat that he says proves definitively that the linen some Christians revere as Jesus Christ's burial cloth is a medieval fake.
Italian scientist reproduces Shroud of Turin - Yahoo! News
How does reproducing it prove its fake?
All it proves is that with modern chemistry we can reproduce it. I must be missing something.
It does prove it's in doubt now, that since it can be reproduced there is nothing to prove it is real.
How does reproducing it prove its fake?
All it proves is that with modern chemistry we can reproduce it. I must be missing something.
It does prove it's in doubt now, that since it can be reproduced there is nothing to prove it is real.
Ah, I see. So it is no longer "unique."
I'll have to read this later. If he did reproduce it with technology of the day, then it casts doubt but still does not completely disprove it. If he used modern technology, then I'm not sure what the point of this is.
But this does sort of break a monopoly that has been held by a specific church in one religious belief system.
Is the Shroud of Turin a fake? Beats me. Do I really care? No, not much... Does the Shroud of Turin have anything to do with my personal religious beliefs? Absolutely not. Aside from being a good human interest story, the Shroud of Turin doesn't mean anything to me.
Although that prankstering Vatican originated this prank (or just ignorant assumption), the current day Vatican does not claim that the Shroud of Turin is genuine.It does prove it's in doubt now, that since it can be reproduced there is nothing to prove it is real.
Ah, I see. So it is no longer "unique."
I'll have to read this later. If he did reproduce it with technology of the day, then it casts doubt but still does not completely disprove it. If he used modern technology, then I'm not sure what the point of this is.
Nothing can disprove or prove religious belief, that's each person's own thing and no one should deny or justify their religious beliefs just because of an artifact or evidence.
Although that prankstering Vatican originated this prank (or just ignorant assumption), the current day Vatican does not claim that the Shroud of Turin is genuine.Ah, I see. So it is no longer "unique."
I'll have to read this later. If he did reproduce it with technology of the day, then it casts doubt but still does not completely disprove it. If he used modern technology, then I'm not sure what the point of this is.
Nothing can disprove or prove religious belief, that's each person's own thing and no one should deny or justify their religious beliefs just because of an artifact or evidence.
The radiocrabon dating (at least twice done) is good enough support for me that it's not a real shroud, but there are still some who doubt it's a fake. The chemistry involved in this recent study is good science. All are strong support for the Shroud's being not a genuine shroud of Christ.
To the best of my knowledge, I think it was the Vatican who first made the claim about the Shroud. But, I'm going on memory and that's certainly not perfect.Although that prankstering Vatican originated this prank (or just ignorant assumption), the current day Vatican does not claim that the Shroud of Turin is genuine.Nothing can disprove or prove religious belief, that's each person's own thing and no one should deny or justify their religious beliefs just because of an artifact or evidence.
The radiocrabon dating (at least twice done) is good enough support for me that it's not a real shroud, but there are still some who doubt it's a fake. The chemistry involved in this recent study is good science. All are strong support for the Shroud's being not a genuine shroud of Christ.
I had not known they hadn't made the claim themselves, but many who follow their church do make the claim still. But meh.
I don't particularly trust carbon dating, the science is still easily fooled (been done twice that I know of now). But, all science is always fun to study.
Pope Francis sent a special video message to the event in Turin's cathedral, but made no claim that the image on the shroud of a man with wounds similar to those suffered by Christ was really that of Jesus. He called the cloth an "icon," not a relic - an important distinction. "This image, impressed upon the cloth, speaks to our heart and moves us to climb the hill of Calvary, to look upon the wood of the Cross, and to immerse ourselves in the eloquent silence of love," he said. "This disfigured face resembles all those faces of men and women marred by a life which does not respect their dignity, by war and violence which afflict the weakest," he said. "And yet, at the same time, the face in the Shroud conveys a great peace; this tortured body expresses a sovereign majesty."
Many experts stand by carbon-dating of scraps of the cloth that date it to the 13th or 14th century. However, some have suggested the dating results might have been skewed by contamination and have called for a larger sample to be analyzed. The Vatican has tiptoed around just what the cloth is, calling it a powerful symbol of Christ's suffering while making no claim to its authenticity. The 14-foot-long, 3.5-foot-wide (4.3-meter-long, 1 meter-wide) cloth is kept in a bulletproof, climate-controlled case in Turin's cathedral, but is only rarely open to the public. The last time was in 2010 when more than 2 million people lined up to pray before it and then-Pope Benedict XVI visited.
The latest display coincided with Holy Saturday, when Catholics mark the period between Christ's crucifixion on Good Friday and his resurrection on Easter Sunday. A few hundred people, many in wheelchairs, were invited inside the cathedral for the service, which was presided over by Turin's archbishop. It was only the second time the shroud has gone on display specifically for a TV audience; the first was in 1973 at the request of Pope Paul VI, the Vatican said.
The display also coincided with the release of a book based on new scientific tests on the shroud that researchers say date the cloth to the 1st century. The research in "The Mystery of the Shroud," by Giulio Fanti of the University of Padua and journalist Saverio Gaeta, is based on chemical and mechanical tests on fibers of material extracted for the carbon-dating research. An article with the findings is expected to be submitted for peer-review, news reports say.
Source
Pope Francis sent a special video message to the event in Turin's cathedral, but made no claim that the image on the shroud of a man with wounds similar to those suffered by Christ was really that of Jesus. He called the cloth an "icon," not a relic — an important distinction. "This image, impressed upon the cloth, speaks to our heart and moves us to climb the hill of Calvary, to look upon the wood of the Cross, and to immerse ourselves in the eloquent silence of love," he said. "This disfigured face resembles all those faces of men and women marred by a life which does not respect their dignity, by war and violence which afflict the weakest," he said. "And yet, at the same time, the face in the Shroud conveys a great peace; this tortured body expresses a sovereign majesty."
Many experts stand by carbon-dating of scraps of the cloth that date it to the 13th or 14th century. However, some have suggested the dating results might have been skewed by contamination and have called for a larger sample to be analyzed. The Vatican has tiptoed around just what the cloth is, calling it a powerful symbol of Christ's suffering while making no claim to its authenticity. The 14-foot-long, 3.5-foot-wide (4.3-meter-long, 1 meter-wide) cloth is kept in a bulletproof, climate-controlled case in Turin's cathedral, but is only rarely open to the public. The last time was in 2010 when more than 2 million people lined up to pray before it and then-Pope Benedict XVI visited.
The latest display coincided with Holy Saturday, when Catholics mark the period between Christ's crucifixion on Good Friday and his resurrection on Easter Sunday. A few hundred people, many in wheelchairs, were invited inside the cathedral for the service, which was presided over by Turin's archbishop. It was only the second time the shroud has gone on display specifically for a TV audience; the first was in 1973 at the request of Pope Paul VI, the Vatican said.
The display also coincided with the release of a book based on new scientific tests on the shroud that researchers say date the cloth to the 1st century. The research in "The Mystery of the Shroud," by Giulio Fanti of the University of Padua and journalist Saverio Gaeta, is based on chemical and mechanical tests on fibers of material extracted for the carbon-dating research. An article with the findings is expected to be submitted for peer-review, news reports say.
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/christs-shroud-goes-display-turin
Italy's Rai TV broadcast for the first time images of the linen cloth bearing a faint brownish image of what appears to be a man's body. A smartphone app was also created to show digital images of the cloth. Pope Francis contributed a message to the broadcast, shortly before he was to celebrate his first Easter vigil. The Argentine pontiff, who was elected earlier this month, will preside over a vigil at St Peter's Basilica on Saturday evening - ahead of the main Easter Sunday celebrations. Thousands of people from all over the world are expected at Sunday's Mass.
'Icon'
Viewers were able to watch live images of the 1.21x4.42m Turin Shroud in a 90-minute programme on Rai TV from Turin Cathedral. The images were also streamed on various websites. In a video message ahead of the exhibition, Pope Francis said: "It speaks to our heart." The pontiff described the cloth as an "icon" or an image but was careful not to authenticate as a genuine relic, the BBC's David Willey in Rome reports. Pope Francis' predecessor, Pope Emeritus Benedict, also recorded a video message. The shroud has never been officially recognised as authentic by the Vatican, our correspondent says.
Images of the shroud were streamed on various websites as well as on TV
Rigorous scientific testing seems to indicate that it was woven between 700 and 800 years ago. But diehard believers say other tests prove that it could have been made at the time of the crucifixion - give or take a couple of hundred years, our correspondent says. The only previous - recorded - TV broadcast of the shroud was in 1973. It was last shown to the general public three years ago when Pope Benedict travelled to Turin to view it. The Shroud has been kept in the northern Italian city for more than four centuries. It was taken there by members of the former Italian and French royal house of Savoy who originally acquired it in France in the belief that it had been brought to Europe by returning Crusaders.
BBC News - Turin Shroud shown live on Italy TV
