Italian marines killed two Indian fishermen

[Vikrant]

UN tribunal is dominated by Europeans therefore it is highly unlikely that justice will be done as far as the dark-skinned fishermen are concerned.

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HAMBURG, Germany (AP) — Italy asked a U.N.-mandated tribunal on Monday to order that India put on hold its case against two Italian marines over a 2012 incident in which they are accused of killing two Indian fishermen.

Marines Massimiliano Latorre and Salvatore Girone were assigned to anti-piracy duty aboard an Italian oil tanker off India's coast at the time of the shootings.

The men had to stay in India without formal charges, though they were allowed to return temporarily to Italy to vote in 2013 elections. Latorre was allowed to travel home for treatment in September after suffering a stroke and is still there, while Girone remains in India. The country insists it has jurisdiction and wants to charge both sergeants with murder.

Italy maintains that the shooting occurred in international waters, that the fishermen were mistaken for pirates and the case should be heard in an Italian court.

Rome took the case to international arbitration in June. Pending that, it wants the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea to order restrictions on the marines' movement lifted, enabling Girone to return home and Latorre to remain there.

It also wants the tribunal to say that India shouldn't exercise jurisdiction pending an arbitration ruling.

"Frustration, stress and deteriorating medical conditions affecting directly and indirectly the people involved threaten great prejudice to Italy's rights and mean that there is the need to address urgently this situation," Italian delegate Francesco Azzarrello told the tribunal.

Indian delegate Neeru Chadha said there is no justification for Italy's request and the fishermen's families are still waiting for "justice which has been delayed by Italy's intransigence."

Hearings continue Tuesday. It wasn't immediately clear when the tribunal will rule.

UN tribunal considers Italy-India row over fishermen deaths - US News

 

[montelatici]

The Italians are wimps. The two marines were doing their job, keeping potential pirates away from a freighter. Had they been American marines, they would have never been turned over to the Indians.

 

[Vikrant]

^ Those wimps did not kill pirates. They killed two fishermen.

 

[Vikrant]

A non-white person can never expect justice from an all white system.

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An international maritime tribunal on Monday rejected Italy's request that India provisionally release two marines accused of killing two Indian fishermen, a setback for the Italian government after a three-year legal battle.

However the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea in Hamburg also ordered India to suspend legal action against the two Italians, saying an international arbitration hearing to be held in The Hague must rule on the dispute.

Massimiliano Latorre and Salvatore Girone were part of a military team on anti-pirate duty protecting an Italian oil tanker in 2012, when, they say, they mistook a fishing boat for a pirate vessel and fired warning shots. Two fishermen died.

Girone is being held in the Italian Embassy in New Delhi, forbidden by the Indian authorities from leaving the country. However, Latorre is in Italy after India allowed him to return home temporarily for medical treatment.

Rome objects to holding a trial in India, arguing that the case should be taken to arbitration under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea and that the incident happened in international waters where national laws do not apply.

The Indian government wants Indian courts to try the case.

The Hamburg court decided by 15 judges' votes to six that Italy and India should suspend all proceedings which might aggravate the dispute until the arbitration tribunal rules on the issue.

Putting a positive spin on the move, Italian Foreign Minister Paolo Gentiloni said it was "a useful decision" that the destiny of the marines was no longer in India's hands.

"It will be international arbitration that judges this question," he told reporters.

However, Infrastructure Minister Graziano Delrio, said Rome had wanted to see Girone sent home. "Italy hoped for something different," he said.

Italy and India must submit an initial report to the Arbitration Tribunal on Sept. 24. No date has yet been set for it to begin hearings.

The fallout from the arrest of the marines has damaged wider relations between Italy and India, contributing to the collapse of a European Union-India summit planned during Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to France and Germany this spring.

In April 2012, Rome paid $190,000 to each of the victims' families as compensation. In return, the families dropped their cases against the marines, but the Indian state's case has yet to come to trial.

Maritime tribunal rejects Italy's call for India to free marines

 

[montelatici]

^ Those wimps did not kill pirates. They killed two fishermen.

They turned out to be fishermen. How were the Marines supposed to know that boat(s) approaching a freighter they were protecting, in waters known to be frequented by pirates, were fishermen when pirates routinely disguise themselves as fishermen?

 

[Vikrant]

^ Those wimps did not kill pirates. They killed two fishermen.

They turned out to be fishermen. How were the Marines supposed to know that boat(s) approaching a freighter they were protecting, in waters known to be frequented by pirates, were fishermen when pirates routinely disguise themselves as fishermen?

If marines were not sure then they should not have fired to begin with. You cannot go around shooting civilians. Italians would not have been happy if Indian navy personnel did the same to Italian fishermen. Those wimps calling themselves marines killed unarmed fishermen. I hope there will be justice for the victims.

 

[montelatici]

^ Those wimps did not kill pirates. They killed two fishermen.

They turned out to be fishermen. How were the Marines supposed to know that boat(s) approaching a freighter they were protecting, in waters known to be frequented by pirates, were fishermen when pirates routinely disguise themselves as fishermen?

If marines were not sure then they should not have fired to begin with. You cannot go around shooting civilians. Italians would not have been happy if Indian navy personnel did the same to Italian fishermen. Those wimps calling themselves marines killed unarmed fishermen. I hope there will be justice for the victims.

That's not how it works. Force protection in the case of piracy demands that the potential threat be eliminated before, not after, the entity being protected is attacked. The fishing boats were probably hailed and asked to move away, warning shots were almost certainly fired and then deadly force was utilized.

 

[Vikrant]

^ Those wimps did not kill pirates. They killed two fishermen.

They turned out to be fishermen. How were the Marines supposed to know that boat(s) approaching a freighter they were protecting, in waters known to be frequented by pirates, were fishermen when pirates routinely disguise themselves as fishermen?

If marines were not sure then they should not have fired to begin with. You cannot go around shooting civilians. Italians would not have been happy if Indian navy personnel did the same to Italian fishermen. Those wimps calling themselves marines killed unarmed fishermen. I hope there will be justice for the victims.

That's not how it works. Force protection in the case of piracy demands that the potential threat be eliminated before, not after, the entity being protected is attacked. The fishing boats were probably hailed and asked to move away, warning shots were almost certainly fired and then deadly force was utilized.

Those fishermen were unarmed. Those marines committed murder in Indian territory.

 

[Mr. H.]

 

[Vikrant]

After the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea (ITLOS) in Hamburg announced “provisional measures” in the case of two Italian marines accused of killing two Indian fishermen off the Kerala coast in February 2012, India and Italy are now set to take part in intense negotiations on the composition of a five-member Annex VII Arbitral Tribunal that will give a final ruling in the dispute.

The Annex VII Arbitral Tribunal — under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) — will give a final decision, binding on Italy and India, about which of the two countries can exercise criminal jurisdiction over the marines.

Italian marines case: India, Italy to discuss five-member arbitral tribunal

 

[montelatici]

^ Those wimps did not kill pirates. They killed two fishermen.

They turned out to be fishermen. How were the Marines supposed to know that boat(s) approaching a freighter they were protecting, in waters known to be frequented by pirates, were fishermen when pirates routinely disguise themselves as fishermen?

If marines were not sure then they should not have fired to begin with. You cannot go around shooting civilians. Italians would not have been happy if Indian navy personnel did the same to Italian fishermen. Those wimps calling themselves marines killed unarmed fishermen. I hope there will be justice for the victims.

That's not how it works. Force protection in the case of piracy demands that the potential threat be eliminated before, not after, the entity being protected is attacked. The fishing boats were probably hailed and asked to move away, warning shots were almost certainly fired and then deadly force was utilized.

Those fishermen were unarmed. Those marines committed murder in Indian territory.

I am sure that pirates do not visibly brandish arms when approaching a target from a distance. If the event occurred in Indian territorial waters, there would be no question as to where the proceedings would take place, and United NationsConvention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) would not be taking it up.

 

[Vikrant]

^ Those wimps did not kill pirates. They killed two fishermen.

They turned out to be fishermen. How were the Marines supposed to know that boat(s) approaching a freighter they were protecting, in waters known to be frequented by pirates, were fishermen when pirates routinely disguise themselves as fishermen?

If marines were not sure then they should not have fired to begin with. You cannot go around shooting civilians. Italians would not have been happy if Indian navy personnel did the same to Italian fishermen. Those wimps calling themselves marines killed unarmed fishermen. I hope there will be justice for the victims.

That's not how it works. Force protection in the case of piracy demands that the potential threat be eliminated before, not after, the entity being protected is attacked. The fishing boats were probably hailed and asked to move away, warning shots were almost certainly fired and then deadly force was utilized.

Those fishermen were unarmed. Those marines committed murder in Indian territory.

I am sure that pirates do not visibly brandish arms when approaching a target from a distance. If the event occurred in Indian territorial waters, there would be no question as to where the proceedings would take place, and United NationsConvention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) would not be taking it up.

It seems you have a habit of making stuff up.

 

[montelatici]

They turned out to be fishermen. How were the Marines supposed to know that boat(s) approaching a freighter they were protecting, in waters known to be frequented by pirates, were fishermen when pirates routinely disguise themselves as fishermen?

If marines were not sure then they should not have fired to begin with. You cannot go around shooting civilians. Italians would not have been happy if Indian navy personnel did the same to Italian fishermen. Those wimps calling themselves marines killed unarmed fishermen. I hope there will be justice for the victims.

That's not how it works. Force protection in the case of piracy demands that the potential threat be eliminated before, not after, the entity being protected is attacked. The fishing boats were probably hailed and asked to move away, warning shots were almost certainly fired and then deadly force was utilized.

Those fishermen were unarmed. Those marines committed murder in Indian territory.

I am sure that pirates do not visibly brandish arms when approaching a target from a distance. If the event occurred in Indian territorial waters, there would be no question as to where the proceedings would take place, and United NationsConvention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) would not be taking it up.

It seems you have a habit of making stuff up.

You have a habit of projecting. I make nothing up.

 

[Vikrant]

If marines were not sure then they should not have fired to begin with. You cannot go around shooting civilians. Italians would not have been happy if Indian navy personnel did the same to Italian fishermen. Those wimps calling themselves marines killed unarmed fishermen. I hope there will be justice for the victims.

That's not how it works. Force protection in the case of piracy demands that the potential threat be eliminated before, not after, the entity being protected is attacked. The fishing boats were probably hailed and asked to move away, warning shots were almost certainly fired and then deadly force was utilized.

Those fishermen were unarmed. Those marines committed murder in Indian territory.

I am sure that pirates do not visibly brandish arms when approaching a target from a distance. If the event occurred in Indian territorial waters, there would be no question as to where the proceedings would take place, and United NationsConvention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) would not be taking it up.

It seems you have a habit of making stuff up.

You have a habit of projecting. I make nothing up.

Even the Italians do not claim that those fishermen were armed. But you imagined those fishermen to be brandishing weapons.