Italian Journalist Thinks She May Have Been Target

[krisy]

http://start.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20050306/422a8e50_3ca6_1552620050306525630854

I personally reject any allegations she may be trying to insinuate. Notice she was strongly opposed to the war in Iraq. Would it have been that hard to let at least the military at the roadblock know what they were doing ahead?

 

[Annie]

I agree Krisy. I wouldn't be shocked to find that she was involved in her own 'kidnapping' someway. She was taken while on the phone with another journalist, maximizing coverage. The 'film' of her was begging for Italians to do anything to get her rescued, including pulling out their troops.

She said she was treated well by her kidnappers, released one day past one month from the kidnapping. Time will tell, but she most certainly appears to have an agenda.

 

[krisy]

I agree Krisy. I wouldn't be shocked to find that she was involved in her own 'kidnapping' someway. She was taken while on the phone with another journalist, maximizing coverage. The 'film' of her was begging for Italians to do anything to get her rescued, including pulling out their troops.

She said she was treated well by her kidnappers, released one day past one month from the kidnapping. Time will tell, but she most certainly appears to have an agenda.

If she was involved,that SS Agent's blood is on her hands. I think she is making a fool of herself insinuating that she could have been targeted on purpose. This kind of rhetotic infuriates me. SHe chose to be there,and knew the risks. I don't have much sympathy for her at this point.

 

[j07950]

If she was involved,that SS Agent's blood is on her hands. I think she is making a fool of herself insinuating that she could have been targeted on purpose. This kind of rhetotic infuriates me. SHe chose to be there,and knew the risks. I don't have much sympathy for her at this point.

Should we not have sympathy for those americans that chose to work in Irak and have as a result been kidnapt and eventually killed?
I just don't understand why, like I said in another thread, they just didn't shoot at the tires, or engine, instead of shooting the hell out of the car. Especially knowing that this convoy would be arriving, as the soldiers knew she had been released and would be coming their way...
Also if like you are saying she set up this whole thing because she's against the war and all...can we say this about all the journalists that have been kidnapt along the way and who have also asked (for example) their government to pull out their troops... ???

 

[krisy]

Should we not have sympathy for those americans that chose to work in Irak and have as a result been kidnapt and eventually killed?
I just don't understand why, like I said in another thread, they just didn't shoot at the tires, or engine, instead of shooting the hell out of the car. Especially knowing that this convoy would be arriving, as the soldiers knew she had been released and would be coming their way...
Also if like you are saying she set up this whole thing because she's against the war and all...can we say this about all the journalists that have been kidnapt along the way and who have also asked (for example) their government to pull out their troops... ???

I have sympathy for other journalists-that don't come back and smear our U.S. soldiers because they CHOSE to go over to Iraq and put themselves at risk. The ones that are killed,I do have sympathy for. But who else is spewing of silly bullshit that the U.S is purposely targeted them?!!! You know as well as I do that our soldiers did not do such a thing on purpose.And why in the hell would U.S. soldiers risk their lives by shooting at tires to try and save what they percieve to be terrorists lives? For shit sakes,they are just doing what they are trained to do. Is allright with you if they want to make it out alive?!!! This is war and shooting at the tires of what was percieved to be an enemy vehicle doesn't cut it. I aslo haven't seen proof that they knew this convoy was coming and that she would be in it. Maybe she ought to shut her mouth and be glad she is alive and has the freedoms that all those soldiers are fighting for the Iraqi's to have.

 

[MJDuncan1982]

Well at least the people in power aren't so sure about this:

http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000827944

Not allowing the possibility that something wrong happened here is just as crazy as not allowing the possibility that it was not our soldiers' fault.

I for one am glad Bush is going to look into it - let's get the facts and then come to a conclusion - strange idea I know but seems to be a credible process.

 

[theim]

She's a reporter for a frickn Communist newspaper. What the hell did you expect? And if there is one thing that soldiers in Iraq have learned, it is that when there is a car speeding toward your checkpoint it is better to shoot first and ask questions later.

 

[KarlMarx]

Well... one thing that this episode should teach is this....

to the Islamofascists, it doesn't matter whether you support the Iraq war or are opposed, it doesn't matter if you are liberal or conservative, what matters to them is that you are 1) An American 2) A Westerner 3) An Infidel

in this woman's case, she's an atheist to boot, which is something that the Islamofascists don't appreciate at all.

In this war, the enemy sees two sides, them and the rest of us. They want us all to die and don't care about the details.... I guess the way they see it, is they'll kill us all and let Allah sort us out.

My suggestion to the Left is you'd better start seeing this for what it is... a war and only one side is going to win. And that side had better be us, or it's good night nurse!

 

[krisy]

Well at least the people in power aren't so sure about this:

http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000827944

Not allowing the possibility that something wrong happened here is just as crazy as not allowing the possibility that it was not our soldiers' fault.

I for one am glad Bush is going to look into it - let's get the facts and then come to a conclusion - strange idea I know but seems to be a credible process.

AS i said in thread in the Europe forum,I believe what went wrong was that the vehicle didn't stop when told too. She said they weren't speeding,soldiers say they were. I say they shot because something made them feel threatened in some way.

 

[Trinity]

What Iraq's checkpoints are like

By Annia Ciezadlo | Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor

Editor's note: On Friday, an Italian intelligence officer was killed and Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena was wounded as their car approached a US military checkpoint in Baghdad. The US says the car was speeding, despite hand signals, flashing white lights, and warning shots from US forces. Ms. Sgrena says her car was not speeding and they did see any signals. This personal account, filed prior to the shooting, explains how confusing and risky checkpoints can be - from both sides.
It's a common occurrence in Iraq: A car speeds toward an American checkpoint or foot patrol. They fire warning shots; the car keeps coming. Soldiers then shoot at the car. Sometimes the on-comer is a foiled suicide attacker (see story), but other times, it's an unarmed family.




As an American journalist here, I have been through many checkpoints and have come close to being shot at several times myself. I look vaguely Middle Eastern, which perhaps makes my checkpoint experience a little closer to that of the typical Iraqi. Here's what it's like.

You're driving along and you see a couple of soldiers standing by the side of the road - but that's a pretty ubiquitous sight in Baghdad, so you don't think anything of it. Next thing you know, soldiers are screaming at you, pointing their rifles and swiveling tank guns in your direction, and you didn't even know it was a checkpoint.

If it's confusing for me - and I'm an American - what is it like for Iraqis who don't speak English?

In situations like this, I've often had Iraqi drivers who step on the gas. It's a natural reaction: Angry soldiers are screaming at you in a language you don't understand, and you think they're saying "get out of here," and you're terrified to boot, so you try to drive your way out.

'Stop or you will be shot'

Another problem is that the US troops tend to have two-stage checkpoints. First there's a knot of Iraqi security forces standing by a sign that says, in Arabic and English, "Stop or you will be shot." Most of the time, the Iraqis will casually wave you through.

Your driver, who slowed down for the checkpoint, will accelerate to resume his normal speed. What he doesn't realize is that there's another, American checkpoint several hundred yards past the Iraqi checkpoint, and he's speeding toward it. Sometimes, he may even think that being waved through the first checkpoint means he's exempt from the second one (especially if he's not familiar with American checkpoint routines).

I remember one terrifying day when my Iraqi driver did just that. We got to a checkpoint manned by Iraqi troops. Chatting and smoking, they waved us through without a glance.

Relieved, he stomped down on the gas pedal, and we zoomed up to about 50 miles per hour before I saw the second checkpoint up ahead. I screamed at him to stop, my translator screamed, and the American soldiers up ahead looked as if they were getting ready to start shooting.

After I got my driver to slow down and we cleared the second checkpoint, I made him stop the car. My voice shaking with fear, I explained to him that once he sees a checkpoint, whether it's behind him or ahead of him, he should drive as slowly as possible for at least five minutes.

He turned to me, his face twisted with the anguish of making me understand: "But Mrs. Annia," he said, "if you go slow, they notice you!"

Under Saddam, idling was risky

This feeling is a holdover from the days of Saddam, when driving slowly past a government building or installation was considered suspicious behavior. Get caught idling past the wrong palaces or ministry, and you might never be seen again.

I remember parking outside a ministry with an Iraqi driver, waiting to pick up a friend. After sitting and staring at the building for about half an hour, waiting for our friend to emerge, the driver shook his head.

"If you even looked at this building before, you'd get arrested," he said, his voice full of disbelief. Before, he would speed past this building, gripping the wheel, staring straight ahead, careful not to even turn his head. After 35 years of this, Iraqis still speed up when they're driving past government buildings - which, since the Americans took over a lot of them, tend be to exactly where the checkpoints are.

Fear of insurgents and kidnappers are another reason for accelerating, and in that scenario, speeding up and getting away could save your life. Many Iraqis know somebody who's been shot at on the road, and a lot of people survived only because they stepped on the gas.

This fear comes into play at checkpoints because US troops are often accompanied by a cordon of Iraqi security forces - and a lot of the assassinations and kidnappings have been carried out by Iraqi security forces or people dressed in their uniforms. Often the Iraqi security forces are the first troops visible at checkpoints. If they are angry-looking and you hear shots being fired, it becomes easier to misread the situation and put the pedal to the metal.

A couple of times soldiers have told me at checkpoints that they had just shot somebody. They're not supposed to talk about it, but they do. I think the soldiers really needed to talk about it. They were traumatized by the experience.

Traumatic for soldiers, too

This is not what they wanted - really not what they wanted - and the whole checkpoint experience is confusing and terrifying for them as well as for the Iraqis. Many of them have probably seen people get killed or injured, including friends of theirs. You can imagine what it's like for them, wondering whether each car that approaches is a normal Iraqi family or a suicide bomber.

The essential problem with checkpoints is that the Americans don't know if the Iraqis are "friendlies" or not, and the Iraqis don't know what the Americans want them to do.

I always wished that the American commanders who set up these checkpoints could drive through themselves, in a civilian car, so they could see what the experience was like for civilians. But it wouldn't be the same: They already know what an American checkpoint is, and how to act at one - which many Iraqis don't.

Is there a way to do checkpoints right? Perhaps, perhaps not. But it seems that the checkpoint experience perfectly encapsulates the contradictions and miseries and misunderstandings of everyone's common experience - both Iraqis and Americans - in Iraq

 

[Annie]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/functions/print.php?StoryID=20050308-121240-1847r

Italy didn't plan safe escape for hostage
By Rowan Scarborough
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Published March 8, 2005
Italian security forces failed to make arrangements for safe passage out of Iraq for a freed Italian reporter, whose car was fired on by U.S. troops, killing intelligence agent Nicola Calipari who brokered the reporter's release, according to an internal Pentagon memo.
The memo says checkpoint soldiers are trained to deal with erratic speeding vehicles whose drivers ignored warnings -- a profile that matches the Army's version of events in Friday night's shooting.
The memo says more than 500 American troops have been killed on the streets and at checkpoints in Iraq. Mistaken shootings of civilians resulted in "few deadly incidents" since the U.S. started checkpoints in March 2003, according to the memo.
Meanwhile, the White House dismissed as "absurd" the stated suspicion of the reporter, Giuliana Sgrena, who said the United States tried to kill her because it opposes negotiations with terrorists to free hostages. Miss Sgrena, a reporter for the Italian communist newspaper Il Manifesto, provided no evidence.
"It's absurd to make any such suggestion that our men and women in uniform would deliberately target innocent civilians," said White House spokesman Scott McClellan adding: "We regret this incident. We are going to fully investigate what exactly occurred."
Maj. Gen. William G. Webster Jr., who heads the Army's 3rd Infantry Division, yesterday completed the "commander's preliminary inquiry." He has decided to conduct a more extensive inquiry, called a 15-6 for the regulation that authorizes it. Gen. Webster will name one officer to head the probe.
A U.S. official said that of all the cars that passed through the checkpoint that night, the reporter's vehicle was the only one fired upon.
"Something that car did caused the soldiers to fire," said the official, who asked not to be named.
The shooting occurred at night at a checkpoint on a notoriously dangerous road that links Baghdad to the international airport.
The incident has put a spotlight on "friendly fire" episodes that occur with some regularity in Iraq when motorists fail to heed warnings to stop at roadside checkpoints and are fired on by American troops who fear that the vehicle might be a weapon. Cars and trucks are a common weapon in suicide bombings and drive-by shootings.
The soldiers did not know that Miss Sgrena and Italian agents were headed in their direction on the way to the airport for a flight back to Italy.
An internal Pentagon information memo states, "This is war. About 500 American service members have been killed by hostile fire while operating on Iraqi streets and highways. The journalist was driving in pitch-dark and at a high speed and failed, according to the first reports, to respond to numerous warnings. Besides, there is no indication that the Italian security forces made prior arrangements to facilitate the transition to the airport."
The left-leaning Italian newspaper La Repubblica reported yesterday that Mr. Calipari decided not to use available escort protection from the elite commandos who protect Italy's Baghdad embassy.
Instead, he rented an inconspicuous pickup trick to recover Miss Sgrena, wrote La Repubblica's top investigative reporter, Giuseppe D'Avanzo.
"In Iraq, the United States makes the rules and the Italian ally also must respect them. If it wants to break them, it must do so with a double game and some crafty tricks," Mr. D'Avanzo wrote.
Italian magistrates have opened an inquiry into the killing and are arranging for the truck to be flown to Italy for examination by ballistic experts, judicial sources said. The magistrates also have obtained from the U.S. military the cellular phone that Mr. Calipari was carrying when he was shot.
Analysis of calls logged on the cellular phone might allow investigators to determine the speed at which the vehicle was traveling when U.S. troops opened fire on it, the sources say.
Mel Sembler, U.S. ambassador to Italy, reiterated Washington's position in a 45-minute meeting with Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi last night, diplomatic sources said.
Robert Maginnis, a retired Army officer and military analyst, said Rome should have done a better job coordinating Miss Sgrena's exit once the Italians negotiated her release.
"It seems to me that the Italian secret service considers this a James Bond movie in Baghdad," Mr. Maginnis said. "They're driving around at night picking up a journalist who has been kidnapped and pretending they can get through a phalanx of checkpoints along the deadliest road in all of Iraq without being detected, much less shot up."
The Army's 3rd Infantry Division, which last week resumed command of Baghdad operations after participating in the 2003 invasion, said the soldiers had warned the approaching car repeatedly before opening fire.
According to the division, the patrol attempted to warn the driver to stop by hand and arm signals, flashing white lights, and firing warning shots in front of the car."
•John Phillips contributed to this report in Rome.

 

[Eightball]

Yeh, right, we(U.S.) want to make enemies with the Italians.......

This is totally a set-up........ to blacken another American eye.......in the world forum.

There are so many socialist/communist media folks in Italy, and for that matter most of the Western European countries that this is not a surprise.

If I was GWB, I'd just come back with a nice little threat, of cutting Italy out of NATO..........if they want to keep spawning this "Hate America" rhetoric. With allies like that, who needs enemies? :finger:

Me thinks that the European Union will be our next enemy one day..........No joking folks! It'll start with little import sanctions here, and there........and before you know it.....we are being isolated from lucrative European markets......