It will not be your great grandparents depression.

[Angel Heart]

More Moral is equal to less opportunity for shenannigans. The real problem here is that too many of us simply don't have the first clue how to grow a garden or even live somewhere where such is even a possibility. How manyu of you can sew your own clothing if push comes to shove?

I can do those things and more. I know how to make soap, bake bread, and make pasta. I have a seed collection too. Only thing I'm missing right now is the space to grow the garden.

 

[American Horse]

I was thinking today about what if the stimulus package doesn't work. I don't think it will but I do think it will be passed. If we spiral into another Great Depression I don't think it will resemble the 1930's. In the 30's we were mostly a rural country. People had values and morals. Can we say that about American society today as a whole? People have always been people and of course we had our drug addicts, rapists, murders etc .... from the beginning of time. Never before have we had such large segments of the population that lacked ethics and morals. I think another depression will be an event of biblical proportions.
We have had it so good for so long I don't think our society would survive it.


If one in four Americans lost their jobs and things became desperate, what do you think would happen? I think it would be like the LA riots and Katrina rapped into one big chaotic nation.

During the depression of the thirties crime really didn't increase. Our parents weren't "spoiled" as are so many people today. My own dad, a vet of WW-I, where he learned some construction skills building "hangers" in the Army-Air force, was 35 when the depression got started. I was the last of 6 kids and born in '41, and in those days life was spartan compared to even that of the most remote rural people of today. Children were born at home. I asked my sister if she knew what time of day I was born, and she said about sunrise, because she could remember dad nailing a blanket up over the bedroom door, when the time and the midwife came.

Even after we had "traded" for a home in the city in 43, we still had to go outside to pump our water, and use an out-house, and had a pot-belly stove for heat, and a kerosene stove for cooking and for heating the bath-tub water which everyone used on Saturday nights, I being the last. We tended a garden, and kept some chickens. I would sell tomatoes and eggs to our neighbors. My mother would add to our salad with "greens" from our yard. And of course the first day of any hunting season was eagerly anticipated. We would allow the pigeons to breed and roost in the attic of our back shed by having an opening high up in the gable. Once there were enough, dad would close off the opening, go in through a side door, and harvest a mess of "squab" to give us some variety from the usual chicken. Thanksgiving Day began with a small game hunt with shotgun.

Everyone had their piece of chicken in our family; since I was the youngest mine was the neck, gizzard, heart and liver if I was lucky, but I think that was when my mom thought I needed it more than she. All the clothes were washed on a scrubbing board, run through a ringer in a tub and dried out on the clothes line.

Before the depression my dad had had jobs in Indianapolis, like tending a pool room, with the family living above the business. During the depression lucky out of work males got some work and therefore on the job "training by doing", from the WPA. Work like laying brick sidewalks and streets, cemetery walls, and other. But that was to give them some sort of skill base to use in finding work when that was finished, not to be permanent. From the beginning of the depression until he finally retired, my dad never worked for a factory, or industry, but went out as a ‘day laborer’ of sorts, lining up work ahead to be done as small contracts, agreed upon by a handshake. The amazing thing about it, now that I look back is that he left the house early and was gone all day every day all week long, sometimes stayed overnight when he went to the "City", which is what he called the capital city, Indianapolis, 60 miles away.

When I think about what some of our neighbors did for a living one was a janitor at the elementary school, one a stone mill worker (who died getting crushed in a RR accident and lay in state in their living room), one worked at a coal-yard, one owned a tire recap business, one a RR worker, and a few at local factories once they had started up in our town. All in all, we children never really knew that we might be considered poor, nor do I think we were. People were very self sufficient then and respected for that. We may pay a social price for our “packaged” society.

I think it could get dangerous, when people can’t get all their needs met, or aren’t able to provide for themselves. They now depend so completely on the system for their every accommodation. Because the sense of "community" is no longer there; nor have people been taught to make do or be creative in their survival while growing up, I believe desperate people will look around for the "helpless" to prey on.

And rca's comment that another depression will be an event of biblical proportions may ring true since people may have forgotten basic religious tenets like "the golden rule", which now follows the credo "do unto others before they can do it to you".

I'd feel safer living out in suburbs than the city, with the door locked at night and a gun conveniently stashed, when the vagabonds start reconnoitering for their vulnerable victims. Already, the past half decade we've seen a lot of young talent go into bank robberies in our city of 100,000.

...

 

[007]

More Moral is equal to less opportunity for shenannigans. The real problem here is that too many of us simply don't have the first clue how to grow a garden or even live somewhere where such is even a possibility. How manyu of you can sew your own clothing if push comes to shove?

I can do those things and more. I know how to make soap, bake bread, and make pasta. I have a seed collection too. Only thing I'm missing right now is the space to grow the garden.

C'mon over to my place darlin'... I have 6.2 acres of prime land with my own well and septic. I even have my own generator, and if I had to I could poach enough game animals off my land to live on plus a garden for greens. So hey, let the world go by, but if they think they're going to invade my space and steal mine and .... 'yours'... they're going to be met with a 12 gage shot gun full of buck shot.

Times are going to get tough Rcajun, and that's part of the reason I moved back up here to the back woods. 'A country boy can survive'... know what I mean?

 

[Skeptik]

Would you argue our society today is just as moral as it was in the 1930's? With every passing generation I believe things get worse. I believe we live in a very fragile society and a depression would push it over the edge. People today get angry when they don't get what they want and they get crazy when they don't get what they need. Heck people today get crazy waiting in line. Could you imagine a soup kitchen line today with thousands waiting?

The depression of the '30s wasn't my great grandparents', nor my grandparents', but my parents depression. I heard about it second hand, but in some detail.

When I was growing up in the '50s, we didn't lock our doors, didn't lock cars, didn't worry about young boys like me roaming the woods with a shotgun, thumbing rides into town (without he shotgun), or doing a whole lot of things that we wouldn't think of doing now.

Having spent 38 years in the public schools in California, I've seen first hand the decay in out society. I think you saw a little of it, to, in your description of the aftermath of Katrina.

I'm afraid you're right that our society gets worse with every passing generation, and that a real depression, the kind where people really don't have enough to eat, would get violent, and would result in the breakdown of civil order.

Lay in a supply of food, and have some firearms on hand to protect it.

If you have decent neighbors, get together with them for mutual benefit.

The sheriff told you to shoot looters and dump the bodies in the bayou? Surely, that is an exaggeration!

 

[RodISHI]

Would you argue our society today is just as moral as it was in the 1930's? With every passing generation I believe things get worse. I believe we live in a very fragile society and a depression would push it over the edge. People today get angry when they don't get what they want and they get crazy when they don't get what they need. Heck people today get crazy waiting in line. Could you imagine a soup kitchen line today with thousands waiting?

The depression of the '30s wasn't my great grandparents', nor my grandparents', but my parents depression. I heard about it second hand, but in some detail.

When I was growing up in the '50s, we didn't lock our doors, didn't lock cars, didn't worry about young boys like me roaming the woods with a shotgun, thumbing rides into town (without he shotgun), or doing a whole lot of things that we wouldn't think of doing now.

Having spent 38 years in the public schools in California, I've seen first hand the decay in out society. I think you saw a little of it, to, in your description of the aftermath of Katrina.

I'm afraid you're right that our society gets worse with every passing generation, and that a real depression, the kind where people really don't have enough to eat, would get violent, and would result in the breakdown of civil order.

Lay in a supply of food, and have some firearms on hand to protect it.

If you have decent neighbors, get together with them for mutual benefit.

The sheriff told you to shoot looters and dump the bodies in the bayou? Surely, that is an exaggeration!

Much of the decay is because people are too busy working for that dollar to support their families. The children do not get the time they would get when a parent does not have to work to support the family.

 

[garyd]

If you don't work for that dollar how do you propose to support your family? Just out of idol curiosity. People always work for something...

 

[editec]

I was thinking today about what if the stimulus package doesn't work.

I was contemplating my death recently because I find that contemplative subject somewhat less depressing than "what if the stimulus package doesn't work?"

I don't think it will but I do think it will be passed.

I think it will, too. I think the masters are desperately trying to figure out how to prevent 150 million Americans from becoming angry socialists to be honest

If we spiral into another Great Depression I don't think it will resemble the 1930's.

You are correct in thinking that, would be my guess.

In the 30's we were mostly a rural country.

More rural, but not mostly rural would be my guess, but do go on..

People had values and morals. Can we say that about American society today as a whole?

So do we now, only they aren't exactly the same values or morals.

People have always been people and of course we had our drug addicts, rapists, murders etc .... from the beginning of time

.

Original sin. One of the best concepts that Judism ever came up with, really, since it so describes the human condition.

Never before have we had such large segments of the population that lacked ethics and morals.

Or morals and ethics that you and perhaps I don't like. Hitler had ethics and morals, just ones that we find repulsive.

I think another depression will be an event of biblical proportions.

Followed by seven years of famine. Yeah, it could be.

We have had it so good for so long I don't think our society would survive it.

Some of us have had it so good. Some of us have had it rather bad for a long long time. Depends on what class we're really talking about.

I got a glimpse of our society breaking down after Katrina. There were untold murders, rapes and looting that will never be prosecuted. I live in the burbs of NOLA and returned home 4 days after the storm. I was not prepared for what I had to deal with. People ran the out lights going 100 miles per hour without regard for others. I will never forget at a light that was out, a 70 plus year old man giving the one finger salute to everyone he passed cursing away. The local Sheriff department had given us instructions to shoot looters and dump their bodies in the bayou behind the subdivision. In gasoline lines I never saw so many arguments and people waving their guns before. They also did this type of stuff in the FEMA MRE lines. In the city there were roving mobs looting, raping and murdering people.

Welcome to Libertopia.

You also had the exact opposite. Neighbors shared food and we took in my in-laws for over a month. Now they are riding high again so they don't talk to us. Such is the nature of people.

Sadly true.

If one in four Americans lost their jobs and things became desperate, what do you think would happen? I think it would be like the LA riots and Katrina rapped into one big chaotic nation.

Chaos doesn't last long. Depending on where yuu happen to live things will be very different.

Hey, why do you think I choose to live in Maine?

I've been expecting this disaster, or some other disaster, to break down civil authority for a mighty long time.

Extreme poverty and economic disaster is safer in a rural environment than an urban one.

That must be obvious to those of you who have to worry about gangs and crime in the cities of America.

I probably live in a place economically much poorer than most of you do, yet there are really very few crimes of property here.

We Mainers are either too ethical, or too lazy to steal.

Besides so few of us have anything worth risking jail for, anyway.

 

[rcajun90]

More Moral is equal to less opportunity for shenannigans. The real problem here is that too many of us simply don't have the first clue how to grow a garden or even live somewhere where such is even a possibility. How manyu of you can sew your own clothing if push comes to shove?

I can do those things and more. I know how to make soap, bake bread, and make pasta. I have a seed collection too. Only thing I'm missing right now is the space to grow the garden.

C'mon over to my place darlin'... I have 6.2 acres of prime land with my own well and septic. I even have my own generator, and if I had to I could poach enough game animals off my land to live on plus a garden for greens. So hey, let the world go by, but if they think they're going to invade my space and steal mine and .... 'yours'... they're going to be met with a 12 gage shot gun full of buck shot.

Times are going to get tough Rcajun, and that's part of the reason I moved back up here to the back woods. 'A country boy can survive'... know what I mean?

Yea it sounds like you are setup to ride out some troubling times. I live in the burbs. I have space to grow a garden but the HOA will not allow that.

 

[editec]

It won't be bad.

Our idea of a depression is living without cable.

In my case such an event would be catastropic to about 40,000 people who every month who count on me to keep Rosetta going.

That truly would depress the ever lovin' crap out of me, personally.

 

[Old Rocks]

Yes, people do tend to be more "moral" in small towns in regard to what they do to neighbors of equal social status. You see, everyone knows everyone. And if someone starts theiving, he or she is soon found out, with personal repercussions. Now when you get down to overall morals, that can be an entirely differant thing. One only has to look to the history of lynchings in the South during that period to see that some of the morals were rather selective.

 

[rcajun90]

.

Even if we move beyond a recession, there are now many built in safeguards that will help. People will still be able to buy food and find some type of shelter. I'm not trying to sugar coat it, but it is unlikely to ever be as bad as the Great Depression.

Your point is well taken though. I'm sure that even with a drawn out recession, crime is likely to increase. I guess we'll have to wait to see how this all plays out.

The safe guards are not really that safe. The FDIC will ensure your deposits up to 100,000 but what does that really mean if the dollar loses 80% of its value. I truly hope you are right but dang every week you hear about layoffs etc... My job is rather recession proof but even those are subject to loss of income. I've heard stories of doctors getting paid with chickens during the Great Depression.

 

[RodISHI]

Chickens are editable, paper is not.