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In a series of public statements in recent months, President Bush and members of his Administration have redefined the war in Iraq, to an increasing degree, as a strategic battle between the United States and Iran. “Shia extremists, backed by Iran, are training Iraqis to carry out attacks on our forces and the Iraqi people,” Bush told the national convention of the American Legion in August. “The attacks on our bases and our troops by Iranian-supplied munitions have increased. . . . The Iranian regime must halt these actions. And, until it does, I will take actions necessary to protect our troops.” He then concluded, to applause, “I have authorized our military commanders in Iraq to confront Tehran’s murderous activities.”
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/10/08/071008fa_fact_hersh
If Americans let him get away with this I'd be shocked.
More at link.
How is informing the public of the actions of Iran somehow redefining the war? Be so kind as to provide some quote or some comment where Bush or someone of importance in the Administration as actually said anything of the sort.
It's not informing anyone, that assumes facts. It's Bush and Cheney shifting the blame for the massive cockup in Iraq to Iran.
Quite correct. The Iranians are fighting a proxy war against America and supplying weapons that are killing US troops and Iraqi civilians. The Left chooses to ignore that. And you are the same person who argued so vehemently that Ahmadinejad, a leader of the enemy, should be allowed to spew propaganda at Columbia. Nice consistency. You supported the "free speech" rights of a killer of US troops.Wrong again. It is a proven fact that Iranian made weapons, explosives and trained fighters are coming from Iran. It is a proven fact that Iran backs segments of the Iraqi political structure and wants them to control Iraq.
The Government has made the claim that Iranian Government entities are directly involved in the transfer of weapons to Iraq, the allowance of free movement of terrorists across its border. None of which equates to trying to "redefine" the war.
This is akin to claiming the Adminstration is accusing the Mexican Government of sponsoring illegal immigration into our country because it thinks our desire to boot them out is wrong.
Wrong again. It is a proven fact that Iranian made weapons, explosives and trained fighters are coming from Iran. It is a proven fact that Iran backs segments of the Iraqi political structure and wants them to control Iraq.
The Government has made the claim that Iranian Government entities are directly involved in the transfer of weapons to Iraq, the allowance of free movement of terrorists across its border. None of which equates to trying to "redefine" the war.
This is akin to claiming the Adminstration is accusing the Mexican Government of sponsoring illegal immigration into our country because it thinks our desire to boot them out is wrong.
Quite correct. The Iranians are fighting a proxy war against America and supplying weapons that are killing US troops and Iraqi civilians. The Left chooses to ignore that. And you are the same person who argued so vehemently that Ahmadinejad, a leader of the enemy, should be allowed to spew propaganda at Columbia. Nice consistency. You supported the "free speech" rights of a killer of US troops.
and you are the same person who argued so vehemently that Ahmadinejad, a leader of the enemy, should be allowed to spew propaganda at Columbia. Nice consistency. You supported the "free speech" rights of a killer of US troops.[
No. My response quoted RGS. I do not recall any criticism from you of Iranian weapons shipments into Iraq that threaten both Americans and Australians, among others. It was RGS who, in the Fire the Columbia Leadership thread, stepped right up to defend the "free speech" of Ahmadinejad; as though the US Constitution was written to protect foreign nationals who are killers of US troops. I recall RGS' defense of Columbia's leadership and Larkin's insistence that there was no proof of Iranian Leadership complicity in the shipment of US troop killing weapons into Iraq. He actually said it was possible that individuals were shipping sophisticated IEDs, RPGs, and IR surface-to-air missiles into Iraq because such were available on the "black market."Well hello, guess who fought a real, not proxy war against Iraq some years ago?
And now we see the Iranians buddying up with the Iraqi government? Oh duh! Another foreign policy triumph by the incompetents in DC.
Is that for me?
What does this mean? Are you suggesting that America and Australia should have arranged things so that Iraq and Iran remained at each other's throats? Are you suggesting that the leadership of representative government in Iraq could have turned out to be anything but Shia? Iraq is 60 percent Shia. Are you suggesting that because Shia leadership was inevitable that Iraq should not have representative government? What is your point, other than expressing disdain for Washington, and by implication Canberra?Well hello, guess who fought a real, not proxy war against Iraq some years ago?
And now we see the Iranians buddying up with the Iraqi government? Oh duh! Another foreign policy triumph by the incompetents in DC
Quite correct. The Iranians are fighting a proxy war against America and supplying weapons that are killing US troops and Iraqi civilians. The Left chooses to ignore that. And you are the same person who argued so vehemently that Ahmadinejad, a leader of the enemy, should be allowed to spew propaganda at Columbia. Nice consistency. You supported the "free speech" rights of a killer of US troops.
I take it that you either didn't read, (or at the very least) UNDERSTAND what Bush said.How is informing the public of the actions of Iran somehow redefining the war? Be so kind as to provide some quote or some comment where Bush or someone of importance in the Administration as actually said anything of the sort.
Our military commanders have displayed weapons in Iraq that are of Iranian manufacture. Are they liars when they assert that these weapons are killing US troops and Iraqi civilians? What proof does the Left need to realize that Iran is fighting a proxy war against America? Just what is the Left looking for? Photos of Iranian leaders loading weapons supply trucks? For that matter, what specific proof is the Left looking for in order to believe that Iran is developing nuclear weapons? All of Pakistan's involvement with Iran, the development of massive unnecessary uranium enrichment facilities, underground nuclear labs...that's not enough evidence? What evidence was there that the US, CCCP, China, India, Pakistan, Israel, Britain, or France were developing nuclear weapons before they actually detonated one? There is likely to never be photographic or any other hard evidence that the Iranians are developing nuclear weapons until they detonate their first device. And then Islamic religious fanatics will be pointing a nuclear gun at Israel and the West. What will the Left say then? That American intelligence has failed yet again.While it may be true. Not an ounce of proof has been provided. I think you'll forgive me if, after having used Colin Powell to legitimize the errors that led us to this debacle, I wouldn't believe anything they say if their tongues were notarized.
That said, would you expect different? Anyone could have seen that destabilizing Iraq would take away the power that balances Iran's in the region. Our troops have been stretched to their limit and, Ahmadinezad knows it. Hence, his being so blatent in telling us where to stick it.
I think there are many diplomatic channels to go through before we trust the people who brought us the screw-up in Iraq lead us to yet another war.
Our military commanders have displayed weapons in Iraq that are of Iranian manufacture. Are they liars when they assert that these weapons are killing US troops and Iraqi civilians? What proof does the Left need to realize that Iran is fighting a proxy war against America? Just what is the Left looking for? Photos of Iranian leaders loading weapons supply trucks? For that matter, what specific proof is the Left looking for in order to believe that Iran is developing nuclear weapons? All of Pakistan's involvement with Iran, the development of massive unnecessary uranium enrichment facilities, underground nuclear labs...that's not enough evidence? What evidence was there that the US, CCCP, China, India, Pakistan, Israel, Britain, or France were developing nuclear weapons before they actually detonated one? There is likely to never be photographic or any other hard evidence that the Iranians are developing nuclear weapons until they detonate their first device. And then Islamic religious fanatics will be pointing a nuclear gun at Israel and the West. What will the Left say then? That American intelligence has failed yet again.
Our military commanders have displayed weapons in Iraq that are of Iranian manufacture. Are they liars when they assert that these weapons are killing US troops and Iraqi civilians? What proof does the Left need to realize that Iran is fighting a proxy war against America? Just what is the Left looking for? Photos of Iranian leaders loading weapons supply trucks? For that matter, what specific proof is the Left looking for in order to believe that Iran is developing nuclear weapons? All of Pakistan's involvement with Iran, the development of massive unnecessary uranium enrichment facilities, underground nuclear labs...that's not enough evidence? What evidence was there that the US, CCCP, China, India, Pakistan, Israel, Britain, or France were developing nuclear weapons before they actually detonated one? There is likely to never be photographic or any other hard evidence that the Iranians are developing nuclear weapons until they detonate their first device. And then Islamic religious fanatics will be pointing a nuclear gun at Israel and the West. What will the Left say then? That American intelligence has failed yet again.
Please show me the link that advanced US made IEDs and IR surface-to-air missiles are in the hands of Kurd terrorists. What US made weapons are being used by Iraqi and Kurd terrorists? M16s?Just curious...do you think that Americans are fighting a proxy war with ourselves as well as one with Turkey since American arms have found their way to Iraqi insurgents, and to Kurdish insurgents fighting against Turkey?
As for hard evidence...maybe you can't get any. But an inability to get hard evidence does not justify making shit up or drawing conclusions based on flimsy evidence. It especially does not justify drawing the US into yet another aggressive war. Sorry if I want a bit more evidence before I commit American lives and money to another regime change when we've failed at two so far.
Quite correct. The Iranians are fighting a proxy war against America and supplying weapons that are killing US troops and Iraqi civilians. The Left chooses to ignore that. And you are the same person who argued so vehemently that Ahmadinejad, a leader of the enemy, should be allowed to spew propaganda at Columbia. Nice consistency. You supported the "free speech" rights of a killer of US troops.
(emphases mine)It is a proven fact that Iranian made weapons, explosives and trained fighters are coming from Iran. It is a proven fact that Iran backs segments of the Iraqi political structure and wants them to control Iraq.
The Government has made the claim that Iranian Government entities are directly involved in the transfer of weapons to Iraq, the allowance of free movement of terrorists across its border. None of which equates to trying to "redefine" the war.
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