Israelis are getting their own state, Palestinians: No ... Obama and contradictions

[pgm]

Guy Milliere, Eminent Professor of History and Political Science, Sorbonne, Paris

No one had heard of a Palestinian people before the mid-1960s. They did not exist. Israel under the British Mandate until Israel' s Independence in 1948 was called Palestine. All Jews who were born there until i948 had the word « Palestine » stamped on their passports. The current Palestinians are those Arabs who, for a variety of reasons, decided to leave the land during the 1947 War of Independence, when five countries – Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq – attacked the 600,000 people in the fledgling state of Israel the day after its birth, hoping to kill it in the crib.
The War Against Israel Goes On- by Guy Millière | DRZZ.fr

Yeah, he's wrong.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Guy Milliere, Eminent Professor of History and Political Science, Sorbonne, Paris

No one had heard of a Palestinian people before the mid-1960s. They did not exist. Israel under the British Mandate until Israel' s Independence in 1948 was called Palestine. All Jews who were born there until i948 had the word « Palestine » stamped on their passports. The current Palestinians are those Arabs who, for a variety of reasons, decided to leave the land during the 1947 War of Independence, when five countries – Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq – attacked the 600,000 people in the fledgling state of Israel the day after its birth, hoping to kill it in the crib.
The War Against Israel Goes On- by Guy Millière | DRZZ.fr

Yeah, he's wrong.

Who was the Palestinian leader in 1900?
Can you show me any Palestinian currency from 1900?
How about from 1950?
1980?

 

[JStone]

Guy Milliere, Eminent Professor of History and Political Science, Sorbonne, Paris

Yeah, he's wrong.

Who was the Palestinian leader in 1900?
Can you show me any Palestinian currency from 1900?
How about from 1950?
1980?

Why was Arafat, leader of the Palestinians, born in Cairo?

 

[Jos]

How many israeli leaders where born there? 1?

 

[AmericanFirst]

How many israeli leaders where born there? 1?

Palestinians=fake people. Palestinians=murdering invaders, simple, kick them out of Israel.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

How many israeli leaders where born there? 1?

I don't think any Israeli leaders were born in Cairo.

 

[JStone]

How many israeli leaders where born there? 1?

Can you name even one nation other than the Jewish nation established in Israel the past 3000 years? No, I didn't think so

 

[Baron]

Obama treats the Israelis as they are states, and democratic too!

Obama could treats Israel still better, it is only democracy in the huge area from Morocco to Bahrain.

 

[pgm]

Who was the Palestinian leader in 1900?
Can you show me any Palestinian currency from 1900?
How about from 1950?
1980?

No, I cannot, because it has never been a sovereign state.

I can't tell you the leader in 1900 because a Palestinian state wasn't really an idea until the collapse of the Ottoman Empire and the idea of self determination after WWI. I can give you a leader for the 1940s, though.

Haj Amin al-Husseini. He's unquestionably a Palestinian nationalist with quite a lot of power. He was probably also an antisemite, though, so I hesitate to use him as more than an example of a type of person (Palestinian that existed before 1968). He certainly can't be a role model.

I can also name some Palestinian communists.

But this is the early days of nationalism. Raghib al-Nashashibi favored a merger with Trans-Jordan. There were Palestinians who were ok with the original UN Partition.

Anyway, what isn't deniable is an editorial newspaper was published from 1911 to 1948 that addressed its message to its readers as "Palestinians." (That was published by a Christian, btw). Palestinian nationalism is newer than and probably a response to Zionism, though.

 

[Jos]

The first Israeli presidents were born in Russia, which was true of much of the leadership in the early days of the state. The first native-born president, as well as the first with a Sephardic background, was Yitzhak Navon.
President of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[JStone]

The first Israeli presidents were born in Russia, which was true of much of the leadership in the early days of the state. The first native-born president, as well as the first with a Sephardic background, was Yitzhak Navon.
President of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Can you name one nation, except the Jewish nation, that has ever been established in Israel the past 3000 years? No, I didn't think so.

 

[pgm]

Do you count being established by military conquest?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The first Israeli presidents were born in Russia, which was true of much of the leadership in the early days of the state. The first native-born president, as well as the first with a Sephardic background, was Yitzhak Navon.
President of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Where are the native born "Presidents" of "Palestine"?

 

[pgm]

Mahmoud Abbas was born in Safed.

 

[JStone]

Mahmoud Abbas was born in Safed.

Safed is in Israel.

 

[pgm]

Mahmoud Abbas was born in Safed.

Safed is in Israel.

Not when he was born, it wasn't.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Mahmoud Abbas was born in Safed.

Safed is in Israel.

Not when he was born, it wasn't.

It wasn't in the "State" of "Palestine" either.

 

[pgm]

Did we just hit some sort of circular reasoning?

Abbas was born in Palestine. It wasn't a state of Palestine because of political realities preventing a state of Palestine. Abbas wants a state of Palestine. He may even end up giving up his right of return* (a human right in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights) in exchange for this.

I don't see how he is not a Palestinian President born in Palestine.

*Some will argue that this only applies to citizens. I'm not here to dispute that. I don't make my arguments for Palestinian statehood from legal arguments, but from emotional ones.

 

[JStone]

Did we just hit some sort of circular reasoning?

Abbas was born in Palestine. It wasn't a state of Palestine because of political realities preventing a state of Palestine. Abbas wants a state of Palestine. He may even end up giving up his right of return (a human right in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights) in exchange for this.

I don't see how he is not a Palestinian President born in Palestine.

Palestine was the British name of Israel during the British Mandate. There really was no Palestine.

Safed is in Israel. Open a map.

Historian Bernard Lewis...

For Arabs, the term Palestine was unacceptable. For Muslims it was alien and irrelevant but not abhorrent in the same way as it was to Jews. The main objection for them was that it seemed to assert a separate entity which politically conscious Arabs in Palestine and elsewhere denied. For them there was no such thing as a country called Palestine. The region which the British called Palestine was merely a separated part of a larger whole [of Syria]. For a long time organized and articulate Arab political opinion was virtually unanimous on this point.

With the British conquest in 1917-1918 and the subsequent of a mandated territory in the conquered areas, Palestine became the official name of a definite territory. To begin with, this designation was acceptable neither to Jews not ro Arabs. From the Jewish point of view it restored a name associated in the Jewish historic memory with the largely successful Roman attempt to destroy and obliterate the Jewish identity of the land of Israel. It was a name which had never been used in Jewish history or literature, and the very associations of which were hateful. From the outset, Jews living under the Mandate refused to use this name in Hebrew but instead used what had become the common Jewish designation of the country---Eretz Yisrael, the land of Israel. After a long battle, it was agreed that the official designation of the country in Hebrew on postage stamps, coins, etc would be Palestina, transcribed into Hebrew letters but followed by the abbreviation "aleph yod" For Jews, this was a common abbreviation for Eretz Yisrael.

 

[pgm]

No, there was no Israel from the time of Hadrian until 1948. There was a Palestine, just as there was a Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, etc. in the period between world wars. It was a mandate territory. What does it say on Abbas's birth certificate? Israel? Mandate Palestine?

Safed is in Israel now, but wasn't when he was born. However, Abbas could accurately say he was born in Israel and accurately say he was born in Palestine. Just like a Kosovar could accurately say he/she was born in Yugoslavia or born in Serbia.

Edit: Again with the same quotes. I'm tired of this argument ad nauseam.