Israel urges allies to curb criticism of Mubarak

ekrem

Silver Member
Aug 9, 2005
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Jerusalem seeks to convince its allies that it is in the West's interest to maintain the stability of the Egyptian regime. The diplomatic measures came after statements in Western capitals implying that the United States and European Union supported Mubarak's ouster.
(...)
the Foreign Ministry issued a directive to around a dozen key embassies in the United States, Canada, China, Russia and several European countries. The ambassadors were told to stress to their host countries the importance of Egypt's stability. In a special cable, they were told to get this word out as soon as possible.
(...)
"The Americans and the Europeans are being pulled along by public opinion and aren't considering their genuine interests," one senior Israeli official said.

Israel urges world to curb criticism of Egypt's Mubarak - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

Yeah, let's roll the tanks over the demonstrators who are demanding democracy.
Israel knows best what is Americans' and Europeans' genuine interests.
 
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demonstratorsclashwith0.jpg
 
China rolled tanks over protesters and Obama gives them praise.

So why change now?

praises the tanks? i don't think so.

should he insult the people who hold our debt? or should he find better ways to get them to improve their civil rights record?

i know,,, it's obama, so it's not like you can say anything that doesn't trash him. *shrug*
 
China rolled tanks over protesters and Obama gives them praise.

So why change now?

praises the tanks? i don't think so.

should he insult the people who hold our debt? or should he find better ways to get them to improve their civil rights record?

i know,,, it's obama, so it's not like you can say anything that doesn't trash him. *shrug*

It's not wise to take money from your enemies. That way you won't have to worry about what they think when you disagree with them.

Problem is, Obama likes China better then our allies. The way he's treated our allies is disgraceful, yet he throws a big expensive bash for Chairman Hu.

I wouldn't trash Obama if he'd just quit doing things that makes it so damned easy to do so. Try thinking about this before you complain about my treatment of poor Prez Obama.
 
China rolled tanks over protesters and Obama gives them praise.

So why change now?

You can't compare China to any of the Arab countries.
At that time, when China rolled with tanks over demonstrators, China was already a nuclear power and already a giant conventional military power although with outdated Soviet weapons.
China's domestic issues were and are a 'no-touch' issue for outside powers since China has become a nuclear power.
What was the military-power then for China is now the financial power combined with increasing military power.
A world without engaging China isn't possible anymore, even if they roll again with tanks over demonstrators.

Egypt is totally different.
It is a tiny power compared to China and has a Dictator who is backed by USA.
If the protests don't disperse, then the regime will have to quell the protests with force. But only, if the regime has been assured, that it's rule will still be tolerated after that intermezzo with its own population.

The Israelis tell the USA, that Mubarak has to be kept in power. We know what this means. It means supporting and encouraging the regime to quell the protests.
So, how can a country, which boasts itself a democracy demand such a thing?
What do they gain? The dictator is 82 years old, and if the regime in Egypt won't fall today it will fall tomorrow. One of the most important thing is overcoming fear, Egyptians have showed, that they don't fear the regime anymore.
And the Israelis again show, that they are not ruled by wise leaders who are only concerned for short-term stability on that front by using its relationship to the USA to convince USA to intervene pro Mubarak and against the demonstrators.
 
China rolled tanks over protesters and Obama gives them praise.

So why change now?

You can't compare China to any of the Arab countries.
At that time, when China rolled with tanks over demonstrators, China was already a nuclear power and already a giant conventional military power although with outdated Soviet weapons.
China's domestic issues were and are a 'no-touch' issue for outside powers since China has become a nuclear power.
What was the military-power then for China is now the financial power combined with increasing military power.
A world without engaging China isn't possible anymore, even if they roll again with tanks over demonstrators.

Egypt is totally different.
It is a tiny power compared to China and has a Dictator who is backed by USA.
If the protests don't disperse, then the regime will have to quell the protests with force. But only, if the regime has been assured, that it's rule will still be tolerated after that intermezzo with its own population.

The Israelis tell the USA, that Mubarak has to be kept in power. We know what this means. It means supporting and encouraging the regime to quell the protests.
So, how can a country, which boasts itself a democracy demand such a thing?
What do they gain? The dictator is 82 years old, and if the regime in Egypt won't fall today it will fall tomorrow. One of the most important thing is overcoming fear, Egyptians have showed, that they don't fear the regime anymore.
And the Israelis again show, that they are not ruled by wise leaders who are only concerned for short-term stability on that front by using its relationship to the USA to convince USA to intervene pro Mubarak and against the demonstrators.

We are talking apples and oranges but they're still both called fruit. It doesn't matter how much power they have. They're still both equally wrong.

America backs regimes that they don't exactly agree with but aren't hostile to them. It's better to be friends with an asshole then it is to be his enemy. But it doesn't help to totally ignore their human rights violations while making deals to bring them trillions of dollars in trade and technology.

The problem with Obama is the world holds him in contempt because of several factors. The fact that he says one thing in public and another behind closed doors. He's turned his back on long-time allies while befriending long-time enemies. They figure he's a thug that is too weak to hold onto power because of the last election.
 
We are talking apples and oranges but they're still both called fruit. It doesn't matter how much power they have. They're still both equally wrong.

America backs regimes that they don't exactly agree with but aren't hostile to them. It's better to be friends with an asshole then it is to be his enemy. But it doesn't help to totally ignore their human rights violations while making deals to bring them trillions of dollars in trade and technology.

The problem with Obama is the world holds him in contempt because of several factors. The fact that he says one thing in public and another behind closed doors. He's turned his back on long-time allies while befriending long-time enemies. They figure he's a thug that is too weak to hold onto power because of the last election.

No, we aren't talking about apples and oranges.
You talk about Obama, I talk about Egyptian people's self-rule.
Israel has been totally isolated in the region and the issue is about furthering democracy in Arab world's most populous nation or continuing to support a dictator who delivers continuity on the Israelian-Egyptian border, which also effects the Gaza issue, at the cost of self-determination of the Egyptians.
 
Israel urges allies to curb criticism of Mubarak

How?

The criticism is organic, not contrived.

It stems from the very real discontent of the citizens who have been living under Mubarak's shamocracy for over 30 years.

There isn't a god damned thing that the USA or Isreal can do about the fact that the people are sick to death of that cabal.

What's more...if you are truly somebody who believes in honest representational governments, then you ought not want to do anything to save Mubarak.

His plutocracy failed its people and it DESERVES to be removed from power.

If anything, the USA ought to stay on the sidelines and be prepared to deal with a new government in Egypt.

Tough to do, I know, given that the USA has been depending on Mubarak to keep the radical Ilamiscists from taking over.

But if we overtly help Mubarak supress this citizens revolt, then we will have sided with the tyrant over the will of the people.
 
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“With the spread of communication, societies’ demands for democratic freedom, good governance and transparency are intensifying. No society can remain outside of these developments (...)
These are fair demands and cannot be ignored (...)
As an island of stability and as a country of democratic freedoms, Turkey is closely following these developments and will not withhold any kind of assistance to friendly and neighboring countries. God willing, these transition processes will proceed in a healthy and more positive manner (...) "
- Turkish FM
Link


Turkey to trade more with post-autocratic Egypt, Tunisia
Turkish Confederation of Businessmen and Industrialists (TUSKON)
Turkey to trade more with post-autocratic Egypt, Tunisia


People should have the right to vote for whom they like.
Not be forced into being ruled by the same government all the time who can't deliver solutions and who keep civil society under de-facto jail.
 
So much for the 'American Century'.
Everywhere on the retreat.
 
Jerusalem seeks to convince its allies that it is in the West's interest to maintain the stability of the Egyptian regime. The diplomatic measures came after statements in Western capitals implying that the United States and European Union supported Mubarak's ouster.
(...)
the Foreign Ministry issued a directive to around a dozen key embassies in the United States, Canada, China, Russia and several European countries. The ambassadors were told to stress to their host countries the importance of Egypt's stability. In a special cable, they were told to get this word out as soon as possible.
(...)
"The Americans and the Europeans are being pulled along by public opinion and aren't considering their genuine interests," one senior Israeli official said.

Israel urges world to curb criticism of Egypt's Mubarak - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

Yeah, let's roll the tanks over the demonstrators who are demanding democracy.
Israel knows best what is Americans' and Europeans' genuine interests.

I don't think that's what they're saying.

In point of fact a peaceful and prosperous Egypt IS in everybody's interests.

Sadly Mubarak's regime seems incapable of providing that.

Hence the demonstrations calling for his removal.
 
China rolled tanks over protesters and Obama gives them praise.

So why change now?

praises the tanks? i don't think so.

should he insult the people who hold our debt? or should he find better ways to get them to improve their civil rights record?

i know,,, it's obama, so it's not like you can say anything that doesn't trash him. *shrug*

It's not wise to take money from your enemies. That way you won't have to worry about what they think when you disagree with them.

Problem is, Obama likes China better then our allies. The way he's treated our allies is disgraceful, yet he throws a big expensive bash for Chairman Hu.

I wouldn't trash Obama if he'd just quit doing things that makes it so damned easy to do so. Try thinking about this before you complain about my treatment of poor Prez Obama.

My hope is you're saying this with the understanding that both parties love China, not just Obama personally.

Bush routinely sent Hank Paulsen over to essentially beg for money even while the chinese were spying on us on a daily basis.
 
The Israelis tell the USA, that Mubarak has to be kept in power. We know what this means. It means supporting and encouraging the regime to quell the protests.

And the Israelis again show, that they are not ruled by wise leaders who are only concerned for short-term stability on that front by using its relationship to the USA to convince USA to intervene pro Mubarak and against the demonstrators.

Sorry, Israel does not tell America what to do and America does not tell Israel what to do. You move from Israel 'urging' to Israel dictating. But you have no proof.

Prove that this is so.
 
Israel will find out soon enough, that it can sign peace treaties with unpopular Arab leaders and Dictators, but true peace is peace with the Arab people.
 
For the Middle East? Much worse to come. Much, much worse. Droughts increase each year. Food shortages are greater each year. Populations in these areas increase greatly. Food and water riots to come.

Food and water will become the main resource poor issue of the Arabian Middle East. Oil is simply their only method to pay for the sustenance of their rapidly increasing population.

Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, etc. can not already feed their own people without high degrees of imports.

Drought Hits Middle East Farmers, Again - IPS ipsnews.net
 
For the Middle East? Much worse to come. Much, much worse. Droughts increase each year. Food shortages are greater each year. Populations in these areas increase greatly. Food and water riots to come.

Food and water will become the main resource poor issue of the Arabian Middle East. Oil is simply their only method to pay for the sustenance of their rapidly increasing population.

Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, etc. can not already feed their own people without high degrees of imports.

Drought Hits Middle East Farmers, Again - IPS ipsnews.net

Its because they have way too many children than they can afford to care for, and its always the poor people doing this. Somalian families have a crap load of kids but no money, I never understood why its the poor that do this, the rich Arab families have like 1 or 2 kids and thats it, poor Arab families have 7 or 8.
 

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