Israel to bar UN HUMAN RIGHTS official

[jillian]

Because, this would be the first I have heard of that. Jillian, are you Jewish?

Of course it's the first time you heard it because you only read things that tell you what you already believe and agree with.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0906/p05s02-wome.html

As to your question, how long have you been posting here??? i'm fairly quick with that information and shogie's referenced it at least 50 times.

 

[Taomon]

Of course it's the first time you heard it because you only read things that tell you what you already believe and agree with.

Look who is talking. Why do you hate only the Palestinians? You seem bound and determined to side with the Israelis regardless of wnything they have done in violation of International law.

 

[jillian]

Look who is talking. Why do you hate only the Palestinians? You seem bound and determined to side with the Israelis regardless of wnything they have done in violation of International law.

you haven't any clue what i think on this issue. my response is to blathering one-sided arguments that aggrandize the palestinians and demonize israelis. so it's not like we're having some civil discourse and trying to find a true resolution. shogies' way to solve the problem is move the jews to texas. not exactly the kind of thing that would lead one to the negotiating table or to a discussion.

perhaps if you showed some semblance of knowledge on the issue, we could have a discussion.

but i'm afraid, as usual,you see one side as having authority and the other fighting that authority (even if you're wrong) so automatically go with what you perceive as the underdog (however misguided).

let me know when you want the palestinians to take at least some responsibilty for their circumstances. Go learn the history of the region. Given that it's life and death to a lot of people, I think your attitude is pretty freaking smug.

 

[Taomon]

you haven't any clue what i think on this issue. my response is to blathering one-sided arguments that aggrandize the palestinians and demonize israelis. so it's not like we're having some civil discourse and trying to find a true resolution. shogies' way to solve the problem is move the jews to texas. not exactly the kind of thing that would lead one to the negotiating table or to a discussion.

perhaps if you showed some semblance of knowledge on the issue, we could have a discussion.

but i'm afraid, as usual,you see one side as having authority and the other fighting that authority (even if you're wrong) so automatically go with what you perceive as the underdog (however misguided).

let me know when you want the palestinians to take at least some responsibilty for their circumstances. Go learn the history of the region. Given that it's life and death to a lot of people, I think your attitude is pretty freaking smug.

Jillian, you are one stuck up person. I have knowledge on the issue, and we disagree about the whole issue. You fight to make sure it is not one sided? Are you arguing for the sake of arguing? Do you not truly have feelings for one side or the other? you write as though you will unequivocally side with the Israeli State regardless of their actions.

I stated here and many times over that both sides are guilty. But it is a civil war that has been going on for decades and the Israeli State wants to push all Palestinians out; out of government affairs, out of land, out of resources, and in many cases - out of life.

 

[jillian]

Jillian, you are one stuck up person. I have knowledge on the issue, and we disagree about the whole issue. You fight to make sure it is not one sided? Are you arguing for the sake of arguing? Do you not truly have feelings for one side or the other? you write as though you will unequivocally side with the Israeli State regardless of their actions.

I stated here and many times over that both sides are guilty. But it is a civil war that has been going on for decades and the Israeli State wants to push all Palestinians out; out of government affairs, out of land, out of resources, and in many cases - out of life.

You know nothing about the history of the region. Nothing.

And if both sides are "guilty", as you put it, why take positions that destroy one side?

 

[Taomon]

You know nothing about the history of the region. Nothing.

And if both sides are "guilty", as you put it, why take positions that destroy one side?

Because Israel has used military might, backed by the US. Palestinians have used terrorist tactics, backed by groups of their region.

I am not really siding with either side. I am sick of Palestinians being demonized and Israel getting pardoned when they both are guilty of the same things.

You are in denial that Israeli troops regularly fire on unarmed civilians. That is my contention with you. You attack me and call me names or belittle me because I dare to say that Israel is guilty of crimes against humanity. And I am not the only one to say it. Now the UN is officially recognizing it too.

Jillian, don't stick your nose too far up - otherwise the rain will drown you.

 

[jillian]

I know who's knowledgeable and who isn't. A couple of months ago you were even saying that Israel "invaded pakistan"...which kind of telegraphed your total and complete lack of knowledge.

So because you feel bad for the pals who just elected a terrorist organization to represent them, jews are supposed to die for you?

not gonna happen. get over it...and yourself.

and go wish someone else dead who you disagree with.

 

[jillian]

And what's really annoying about discussing these issues with someone like you is Israel's laundry list of offenses isn't the issue.

The issue is: SHOULD SOMEONE WHO DECIDED IN ADVANCE THAT ISRAEL IS "NAZI'S" be the person to make findings about the actual treatment of palestinians?

That's a big NO. Or do you have a problem with someone who has no preconceptions making the findings? (That's really what we're talking about).

 

[Taomon]

I know who's knowledgeable and who isn't. A couple of months ago you were even saying that Israel "invaded pakistan"...which kind of telegraphed your total and complete lack of knowledge.

So because you feel bad for the pals who just elected a terrorist organization to represent them, jews are supposed to die for you?

not gonna happen. get over it...and yourself.

and go wish someone else dead who you disagree with.

If I remember correctly, I apologized for that mistake...and it was a geography mistake. I went to a US public school so I am sorry that I misunderstood that the Palestinians were not from Pakistan. The Palestinians do not technically have a state so I am sorry I made an error.

Apparently there is no room for error as you are so perfect.

I don't wish all people who disagree with me to be dead, just RGS. He is a miserable old man and the sooner he can rest forever, the better for him.

 

[Taomon]

And what's really annoying about discussing these issues with someone like you is Israel's laundry list of offenses isn't the issue.

The issue is: SHOULD SOMEONE WHO DECIDED IN ADVANCE THAT ISRAEL IS "NAZI'S" be the person to make findings about the actual treatment of palestinians?

That's a big NO. Or do you have a problem with someone who has no preconceptions making the findings? (That's really what we're talking about).

Kind of like, someone who decided in advance that Palestinians are terrorists announcing that anyone who disagrees with here is unknowledgeable on the subject because only she knows the truth and everyone else who disagrees is simply stupid.

 

[jillian]

It's not about there being no room for error because I am perfect. It's about there being no room for error when making judgments that determine whether people live or die.

And you finally said something correct... THE PALESTINIANS NEVER HAD A STATE. Palestine was a British term for THEIR mandate. The Arabs backed the wrong horse in WWII, the brits divvied up the terrority like victors have done throughout history. They didn't even give the Jews their own place (like they did the Sheikhs in the UAE)...they had them share. Jews were ok with that. Arabs weren't. But they attacked, they lost...end of story.

So move on from there and figure out how to do two autonomous states.

But that isn't good enough for palestinan terrorist sympathizers.... they think Israel shouldn't defend itself and should make concessions that would result in its destruction.

That's just STUPID. So when you come back and suggest alternatives that don't result in dead jews, let me know.

 

[jillian]

Kind of like, someone who decided in advance that Palestinians are terrorists announcing that anyone who disagrees with here is unknowledgeable on the subject because only she knows the truth and everyone else who disagrees is simply stupid.

Again, you don't know any of my opinions on these issues. I do so love when people make up stuff, though.

 

[Taomon]

It's not about there being no room for error because I am perfect. It's about there being no room for error when making judgments that determine whether people live or die.

And you finally said something correct... THE PALESTINIANS NEVER HAD A STATE. Palestine was a British term for THEIR mandate. The Arabs backed the wrong horse in WWII, the brits divvied up the terrority like victors have done throughout history. They didn't even give the Jews their own place (like they did the Sheikhs in the UAE)...they had them share. Jews were ok with that. Arabs weren't. But they attacked, they lost...end of story.

So move on from there and figure out how to do two autonomous states.

But that isn't good enough for palestinan terrorist sympathizers.... they think Israel shouldn't defend itself and should make concessions that would result in its destruction.

That's just STUPID. So when you come back and suggest alternatives that don't result in dead jews, let me know.

First one would be to stop the cycle of violence. Everytime there is a ceasefire, Israel will instigate by flying jets in no fly zones or bringing tanks to the border of Lebanon. Sometimes they even fire the first shot, as they did not too long ago in Lebanon.

Perhaps, it would be best to give Palestinains more power in the Israli government.

 

[Taomon]

Again, you don't know any of my opinions on these issues. I do so love when people make up stuff, though.

I am only responding to what you have posted here.

 

[jillian]

First one would be to stop the cycle of violence. Everytime there is a ceasefire, Israel will instigate by flying jets in no fly zones or bringing tanks to the border of Lebanon. Sometimes they even fire the first shot, as they did not too long ago in Lebanon.

Perhaps, it would be best to give Palestinains more power in the Israli government.

Why? They aren't Israeli. Nor have they ever been citizens of Israel.

And how does that lead to two autonomous states?

Again, you're talking garbage that leads to the destruction of Israel.

They didn't fire the first shot in Lebanon either, genius. Hezbollah was firing missiles into northern Israel.

This is when I know it's anti-semitism and nothing else.... if a terrorist organization planted itself on Canada's southern border and started lobbing missiles into Detroit, we'd give Canada about a week (if that much) to clean it up and then we'd go in and turn the terrorist strongholds into a sheet of glass.

And NO ONE IN THE WORLD WOULD THINK WE WERE ANYTHING BUT JUSTIFIED.

But Jews defending themselves from missile attacks??? That seems to make some people crazy cause Jews are only ok when they're dying, right?

 

[Taomon]

Why? They aren't Israeli. Nor have they ever been citizens of Israel.

And how does that lead to two autonomous states?

Again, you're talking garbage that leads to the destruction of Israel.

They didn't fire the first shot in Lebanon either, genius. Hezbollah was firing missiles into northern Israel.

This is when I know it's anti-semitism and nothing else.... if a terrorist organization planted itself on Canada's southern border and started lobbing missiles into Detroit, we'd give Canada about a week (if that much) to clean it up and then we'd go in and turn the terrorist strongholds into a sheet of glass.

And NO ONE IN THE WORLD WOULD THINK WE WERE ANYTHING BUT JUSTIFIED.

But Jews defending themselves from missile attacks??? That seems to make some people crazy cause Jews are only ok when they're dying, right?

Actually, before Israel was a state, the Palestinians were indigenous to that area. Just because Israel became a State (literally beneath the very feet of the Palestinians) does not mean that they have no right to be a apart of that State.

And why would that lead to the destruction of Israel? They both occupy the land and yet the Palestinians cannot have a voice? And you wonder why there is violence?

Besides, would you object as vehemently to Native American Indians forming political parties within our government, running for Congress & the Senate, or having an Indian leader as President?

I think you are demonstrating the very thing that you claim to fight against. You are calling me anti-Semetic because we disagree. In fact, anything you don't agree with is basically anti-Semetic in your eyes.

 

[jillian]

Actually, before Israel was a state, the Palestinians were indigenous to that area. Just because Israel became a State (literally beneath the very feet of the Palestinians) does not mean that they have no right to be a apart of that State.

And why would that lead to the destruction of Israel? They both occupy the land and yet the Palestinians cannot have a voice? And you wonder why there is violence?

Besides, would you object as vehemently to Native American Indians forming political parties within our government, running for Congress & the Senate, or having an Indian leader as President?

I think you are demonstrating the very thing that you claim to fight against. You are calling me anti-Semetic because we disagree. In fact, anything you don't agree with is basically anti-Semetic in your eyes.

Arabs were no more indigenous to the area than Jews. Just more jews came because none of the Euro nations or US wanted them so dumped them in the desert.

Because Palestinians do not occupy Israel. They are in teh territories. And Israel being yet another arab state in the mid east isn't what it's there for. And Arab Israelis ARE represented and DO vote and have more rights than they do in any Arab country.

Your persistent analogies to native americans are ignorant and once again show you have no understanding of the ramifications of the positions you take.

It IS anti-semitic to want jews dead and want Israel destroyed. There's plenty of room for disagreement, but it has to start from the realization, understanding and ACCEPTANCE of teh fact that Israel will always be a Jewish state, same as Saudi Arabia will be an arab state, and no one is going to force Israel to subjugate itself to Arabs in the one place in the middle east that they can live.

 

[jillian]

And once again.... the issue is not what is an appropriate resolution (which is something I'm pleased to discuss with people who don't want Israel destroyed). Rather, the issue is, should the person writing the report for the U.N. be a fair broker... or be predisposed one way or the other.

But keep evading the question.

S'matter? You afraid a real report is going to be fair?

 

[Annie]

And once again.... the issue is not what is an appropriate resolution (which is something I'm pleased to discuss with people who don't want Israel destroyed). Rather, the issue is, should the person writing the report for the U.N. be a fair broker... or be predisposed one way or the other.

But keep evading the question.

S'matter? You afraid a real report is going to be fair?

Jillian, I've been letting you get hit with the 'calling others anti-semitic if they don't agree with you. However I wonder when was the last time a UN representative was sent to the territories who had a stated preference for the Israeli perspective? Oh wait, they couldn't find a UN representative that would agree with Israel, never mind.

 

[Taomon]

Arabs were no more indigenous to the area than Jews. Just more jews came because none of the Euro nations or US wanted them so dumped them in the desert.

Because Palestinians do not occupy Israel. They are in teh territories. And Israel being yet another arab state in the mid east isn't what it's there for. And Arab Israelis ARE represented and DO vote and have more rights than they do in any Arab country.

Your persistent analogies to native americans are ignorant and once again show you have no understanding of the ramifications of the positions you take.

It IS anti-semitic to want jews dead and want Israel destroyed. There's plenty of room for disagreement, but it has to start from the realization, understanding and ACCEPTANCE of teh fact that Israel will always be a Jewish state, same as Saudi Arabia will be an arab state, and no one is going to force Israel to subjugate itself to Arabs in the one place in the middle east that they can live.

You are leaving out two things here:

1) Palestinians did live on the land that is now the Israeli State...and were removed by force after the 6 Day War.

2) Moderate Muslims do not want the Israelis dead, they want peace and modernization with their dignity intact. And rightfully so.

To assume that all MUslims are terroritsts, or to paint them all with the same brush is just as racist as any anti-Semetic overtures made by any radical or bigotted group (or individual).

Like most people who get too attached to an issue, you are taking on the traits of the people you demonize...that is the anti-Semetic bigots that you classify me and anyone else who does not lockstep with you.