Israel - Palestine, one state solution?

[montelatici]

I am not rewriting anything. Just posting the legal instrument that got the Europeans the land in the Middle East. You just haven't the intellect to figure it out.

 

[Boston1]

I am not rewriting anything. Just posting the legal instrument that got the Europeans the land in the Middle East. You just haven't the intellect to figure it out.

What Europeans ?

Are you referring to the returnees ? About 35% of which were from European countries ?

Your argument is weak at best, an outright lie you bleat for the ignorant.

Fact is your revisionist attempts have failed, too many of us are educated in middle east history, and have exposed your nonsense at ever turn.

The simple fact is we already have two states, a third lies waiting in Gaza and I see no benefit in a fourth.

How about if Israel segregated the combatants and their descendants from any legitimate refugees exactly as the GC requires and repatriates them to the nearest debarkation point in Israel. ;--)

Lieberman is a welcome change in Israeli politics. Finally someone who might just stick it to the Arab Muslim colonists.

 

[Challenger]

Well given that we already have three states, Gaza, Israel and Jordan I don't see why we need another. Gaza has only to apply and it would receive recognition..

The fact is statehood isn't the Arab Muslims goal. The destruction of Israel is their goal.

Jews lived there before Muslims settled it, so what do the Muslims want to destroy? The state administration of Israel, or the physical Jew people? Or, more importantly, is the guess correct, that there is no way to tell apart a state administration from its supporting majority populous? I though Israel maintains the Arabic language as one of its state languages.

The Muslims and Christians of Palestine are the native people that converted to Christianity and Islam, many have ancestors that practiced Judaism. The Israelis are Europeans that colonized Palestine.

No, the Jewish religion / race has never had any European roots.

There's your problem, you find it difficult to differentiate bewtween a religion and an ethnicity.

The europeans who colonised Palestine in the late 19th early 20th century followed a religion- Judaism coupled with a political, nationalist ideology- Zionism. Zionism created a myth that these Europeans were descendants of peoples either long extinct, or who had never existed outside of a fantasy religious text.

The native indigenous population meanwhile, had assimilated with succeeding cultures, converting to the predominant religion of the time, or continued to follow Judaism in ever dwindling numbers. Judaism had all but died out in Palestine by the 13th century CE, only experiencing a minor renaissance under Moshe ben Nahman Girondi. thereafter it remained a minority sect under successive Muslim rulers.

 

[Challenger]

I am not rewriting anything. Just posting the legal instrument that got the Europeans the land in the Middle East. You just haven't the intellect to figure it out.

What Europeans ?

Are you referring to the returnees ? About 35% of which were from European countries ?

Your argument is weak at best, an outright lie you bleat for the ignorant.

Fact is your revisionist attempts have failed, too many of us are educated in middle east history, and have exposed your nonsense at ever turn.

The simple fact is we already have two states, a third lies waiting in Gaza and I see no benefit in a fourth.

How about if Israel segregated the combatants and their descendants from any legitimate refugees exactly as the GC requires and repatriates them to the nearest debarkation point in Israel. ;--)

Lieberman is a welcome change in Israeli politics. Finally someone who might just stick it to the Arab Muslim colonists.

See post #43 and also the fact that from 1882 until 1948 the overwhelming majority of Jewish Zionist colonists came from Eastern Europe, "The number of immigrants during the entire Mandate period, legal and illegal alike, was approximately 480,000, close to 90% of them from Europe." Aliyah Bet (1939-1948) | Jewish Virtual Library

See also:

The First Aliyah (1882-1903) | Jewish Virtual Library
The Second Aliyah (1904-1914) | Jewish Virtual Library
The Third Aliyah (1919-1923) | Jewish Virtual Library
The Fourth Aliyah (1924-1929) | Jewish Virtual Library
The Fifth Aliyah (1929-1939) | Jewish Virtual Library
Aliyah Bet (1939-1948) | Jewish Virtual Library

 

[Boston1]

I am not rewriting anything. Just posting the legal instrument that got the Europeans the land in the Middle East. You just haven't the intellect to figure it out.

What Europeans ?

Are you referring to the returnees ? About 35% of which were from European countries ?

Your argument is weak at best, an outright lie you bleat for the ignorant.

Fact is your revisionist attempts have failed, too many of us are educated in middle east history, and have exposed your nonsense at ever turn.

The simple fact is we already have two states, a third lies waiting in Gaza and I see no benefit in a fourth.

How about if Israel segregated the combatants and their descendants from any legitimate refugees exactly as the GC requires and repatriates them to the nearest debarkation point in Israel. ;--)

Lieberman is a welcome change in Israeli politics. Finally someone who might just stick it to the Arab Muslim colonists.

See post #43 and also the fact that from 1882 until 1948 the overwhelming majority of Jewish Zionist colonists came from Eastern Europe, "The number of immigrants during the entire Mandate period, legal and illegal alike, was approximately 480,000, close to 90% of them from Europe." Aliyah Bet (1939-1948) | Jewish Virtual Library

See also:

The First Aliyah (1882-1903) | Jewish Virtual Library
The Second Aliyah (1904-1914) | Jewish Virtual Library
The Third Aliyah (1919-1923) | Jewish Virtual Library
The Fourth Aliyah (1924-1929) | Jewish Virtual Library
The Fifth Aliyah (1929-1939) | Jewish Virtual Library
Aliyah Bet (1939-1948) | Jewish Virtual Library

What year is this Numbskull ?

Why are you cherry picking certain years for returnees ?

Why not chose the timeframe of 1948~1951 ?

Quote

The first large-scale exoduses took place in the late 1940s and early 1950s, primarily from Iraq, Yemen and Libya. In these cases over 90% of the Jewish population left, despite the necessity of leaving their property behind.[4] Two hundred and sixty thousand Jews from Arab countries returned ( corrected ) to Israel between 1948 and 1951, accounting for 56% of the total immigration to the newly founded state.[5]

End Quote

So once again the Arab muslim narrative depends on lies and half truths ;--)

Lets face a little reality here Spiffy

The Arab Muslim who "colonized" ( spelling corrected ;--) Israel in the late 19th early 20th century followed a religion- Judaism coupled with a political, nationalist ideology- Zionism. The Arab Muslim colonists created a myth that these returnees were not descendants of the native peoples who had existed in this area since the early Bronze age.

 

[anotherlife]

Oh, no. It is the official survey commissioned by the U.S. and British governments prior to partition. It was the data from this survey that they used to draft Resolution 181, the partition resolution. The Berman Jewish Policy Archive is a Jewish funded archive at Stanford, previously it was at NYU/Wagner. It is available from the U.S. Department of State archives as well.

Whehehehehe. Yes, we know what happens when the British and the French decide to partition land.

 

[Boston1]

Oh, no. It is the official survey commissioned by the U.S. and British governments prior to partition. It was the data from this survey that they used to draft Resolution 181, the partition resolution. The Berman Jewish Policy Archive is a Jewish funded archive at Stanford, previously it was at NYU/Wagner. It is available from the U.S. Department of State archives as well.

Whehehehehe. Yes, we know what happens when the British and the French decide to partition land.

Yup, every state is failing except the great state of Israel.

But that seems like a subject for another thread.

This one is apparently based of the ludicrous notion that we don't already have two states with a third just waiting to rear its ugly head in Gaza.

So why a fourth ?

 

[anotherlife]

But the European Zionist Jews were Europeans that converted to Judaism. You weren't aware of that? There is no Jewish race. An Inuit or a Chinese can convert Judaism.

"Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European

"All told, more than 80 percent of the maternal lineages of Ashkenazi Jews could be traced to Europe, -
"The simplest explanation was that it was mainly women who converted ...Jews actively converted both men and women among local populations at this time

See more at: Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European

A Jew woman told me that Jews are the most distinct genetic definition, a race that stands alone and far from all the other humans. Apart from this, even if we accept the ashkenazi theory, once they convert, they deny the holy trinity, and everything European, so they don't belong to Europe any more.

I see, a "Jew woman" told you something and scientific fact "says" something else. Good point. A European that becomes a Buddhist remains European, changing religion doesn't change your ethnicity. Europeans that practice Judaism are Europeans. An Italian, Frenchman, German or Spaniard that practices Judaism would be insulted if you claimed he/she was not Italian and European.

"European Women at Root of Ashkenazi Family Tree"

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/09/s...-be-with-european-women-study-finds.html?_r=0

Here is the two most major problem with your logic. If you decide to convert your neighbors daughter to Judaism, she will not be a Jew, but only a raped woman. Same as with the nephilim, quoted in the Old Testament, their wives didn't become aliens either, but their children were not human either, so the children of these converted European women are not European but only Jew. The second problem is that this newly manufactured race to be called ashkenazi is then in need for a place to go. They can't go to Europe, because they are not European, and they destroy Europe, as records show. So the only logical place to send them is the Middle East, where Muslim population dynamics may manage them better.

 

[Boston1]

But the European Zionist Jews were Europeans that converted to Judaism. You weren't aware of that? There is no Jewish race. An Inuit or a Chinese can convert Judaism.

"Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European

"All told, more than 80 percent of the maternal lineages of Ashkenazi Jews could be traced to Europe, -
"The simplest explanation was that it was mainly women who converted ...Jews actively converted both men and women among local populations at this time

See more at: Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European

A Jew woman told me that Jews are the most distinct genetic definition, a race that stands alone and far from all the other humans. Apart from this, even if we accept the ashkenazi theory, once they convert, they deny the holy trinity, and everything European, so they don't belong to Europe any more.

I see, a "Jew woman" told you something and scientific fact "says" something else. Good point. A European that becomes a Buddhist remains European, changing religion doesn't change your ethnicity. Europeans that practice Judaism are Europeans. An Italian, Frenchman, German or Spaniard that practices Judaism would be insulted if you claimed he/she was not Italian and European.

"European Women at Root of Ashkenazi Family Tree"

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/09/s...-be-with-european-women-study-finds.html?_r=0

Here is the two most major problem with your logic. If you decide to convert your neighbors daughter to Judaism, she will not be a Jew, but only a raped woman. Same as with the nephilim, quoted in the Old Testament, their wives didn't become aliens either, but their children were not human either, so the children of these converted European women are not European but only Jew. The second problem is that this newly manufactured race to be called ashkenazi is then in need for a place to go. They can't go to Europe, because they are not European, and they destroy Europe, as records show. So the only logical place to send them is the Middle East, where Muslim population dynamics may manage them better.

WOW

Just WOW

Did you forget your pills or did one of the doctors forget to write something down on your chart.

 

[anotherlife]

Oh, no. It is the official survey commissioned by the U.S. and British governments prior to partition. It was the data from this survey that they used to draft Resolution 181, the partition resolution. The Berman Jewish Policy Archive is a Jewish funded archive at Stanford, previously it was at NYU/Wagner. It is available from the U.S. Department of State archives as well.

Whehehehehe. Yes, we know what happens when the British and the French decide to partition land.

Yup, every state is failing except the great state of Israel.

But that seems like a subject for another thread.

This one is apparently based of the ludicrous notion that we don't already have two states with a third just waiting to rear its ugly head in Gaza.

So why a fourth ?

What would it take to unite these three or four states?

 

[anotherlife]

But the European Zionist Jews were Europeans that converted to Judaism. You weren't aware of that? There is no Jewish race. An Inuit or a Chinese can convert Judaism.

"Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European

"All told, more than 80 percent of the maternal lineages of Ashkenazi Jews could be traced to Europe, -
"The simplest explanation was that it was mainly women who converted ...Jews actively converted both men and women among local populations at this time

See more at: Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European

A Jew woman told me that Jews are the most distinct genetic definition, a race that stands alone and far from all the other humans. Apart from this, even if we accept the ashkenazi theory, once they convert, they deny the holy trinity, and everything European, so they don't belong to Europe any more.

I see, a "Jew woman" told you something and scientific fact "says" something else. Good point. A European that becomes a Buddhist remains European, changing religion doesn't change your ethnicity. Europeans that practice Judaism are Europeans. An Italian, Frenchman, German or Spaniard that practices Judaism would be insulted if you claimed he/she was not Italian and European.

"European Women at Root of Ashkenazi Family Tree"

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/09/s...-be-with-european-women-study-finds.html?_r=0

Here is the two most major problem with your logic. If you decide to convert your neighbors daughter to Judaism, she will not be a Jew, but only a raped woman. Same as with the nephilim, quoted in the Old Testament, their wives didn't become aliens either, but their children were not human either, so the children of these converted European women are not European but only Jew. The second problem is that this newly manufactured race to be called ashkenazi is then in need for a place to go. They can't go to Europe, because they are not European, and they destroy Europe, as records show. So the only logical place to send them is the Middle East, where Muslim population dynamics may manage them better.

WOW

Just WOW

Did you forget your pills or did one of the doctors forget to write something down on your chart.

So, are you proposing that the ashkenazi Jews are European? If yes, then why is that?

 

[Challenger]

Lets face a little reality here Spiffy

The Arab Muslim who "colonized" ( spelling corrected ;--) Israel in the late 19th early 20th century followed a religion- Judaism coupled with a political, nationalist ideology- Zionism. The Arab Muslim colonists created a myth that these returnees were not descendants of the native peoples who had existed in this area since the early Bronze age.

So to translate, according to BoSton1 we have "Arab Muslims who colonised a country that didn't exist in the late 19th early 20th century but who nevertheless turned themselves into Jewish Zionists, and as these Arab-Muslim-Jewish-Zionists, created a myth that they were not returnees of the native peoples who had existed in this area since the early Bronze age......in the fabled Canaan Valley I suppose, along with the pixies and fairies and little pink unicorns.

Yup Boston1, PUI.

 

[Shusha]

The native indigenous population meanwhile, had assimilated with succeeding cultures, converting to the predominant religion of the time, or continued to follow Judaism in ever dwindling numbers. Judaism had all but died out in Palestine by the 13th century CE, ...

Okay. Let's assume this is true. (And I am in NO WAY proposing that it is).

The take away is that succeeding cultures gain rights in the territory in question. So if the succeeding culture assimilates and converts the existing inhabitants that culture becomes the rightful culture. And if the older culture dies out -- shrug, no problem.

The problem with the take-away you propose is that you don't apply it to the current succeeding culture -- which is the Jewish people.

 

[Phoenall]

Actually it is the Jews who successfully kill thousands of non-Jews under their rule on a regular basis.

And as the hard evidence shows if the arab muslim illegal immigrants stopped the attacks and illegal weapons they would not get killed. If you are ex military as you claim then you would know the rule is to kill those trying to kill you first and in greater numbers. So stop the belligerence as the UN resolutions demand and the IDF will not need to respond

 

[Phoenall]

Well given that we already have three states, Gaza, Israel and Jordan I don't see why we need another. Gaza has only to apply and it would receive recognition..

The fact is statehood isn't the Arab Muslims goal. The destruction of Israel is their goal.

Jews lived there before Muslims settled it, so what do the Muslims want to destroy? The state administration of Israel, or the physical Jew people? Or, more importantly, is the guess correct, that there is no way to tell apart a state administration from its supporting majority populous? I though Israel maintains the Arabic language as one of its state languages.

The Muslims and Christians of Palestine are the native people that converted to Christianity and Islam, many have ancestors that practiced Judaism. The Israelis are Europeans that colonized Palestine.

So the Jews who are also native to Palestine that did not convert have no rights, is that what you are saying ?


Just as the Catholics are Europeans that colonised and invaded the Americas. Making you a two faced hypocrite

 

[Phoenall]

But the European Zionist Jews were Europeans that converted to Judaism. You weren't aware of that? There is no Jewish race. An Inuit or a Chinese can convert Judaism.

"Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European

"All told, more than 80 percent of the maternal lineages of Ashkenazi Jews could be traced to Europe, -
"The simplest explanation was that it was mainly women who converted ...Jews actively converted both men and women among local populations at this time

See more at: Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European

How many times have you been shown that this report is false and based on false studies. His peers have denounced him as a charlatan many times and proved his findings wrong

 

[Phoenall]

Lets face a little reality here Spiffy

The Arab Muslim who "colonized" ( spelling corrected ;--) Israel in the late 19th early 20th century followed a religion- Judaism coupled with a political, nationalist ideology- Zionism. The Arab Muslim colonists created a myth that these returnees were not descendants of the native peoples who had existed in this area since the early Bronze age.

So to translate, according to BoSton1 we have "Arab Muslims who colonised a country that didn't exist in the late 19th early 20th century but who nevertheless turned themselves into Jewish Zionists, and as these Arab-Muslim-Jewish-Zionists, created a myth that they were not returnees of the native peoples who had existed in this area since the early Bronze age......in the fabled Canaan Valley I suppose, along with the pixies and fairies and little pink unicorns.

Yup Boston1, PUI.

So how about some evidence that the country of Palestine existed before 1988, which is what you have just wrote above

 

[Challenger]

Okay. Let's assume this is true. (And I am in NO WAY proposing that it is).

It is, objectively, but I can't ever see you accepting any objective facts that would puncture your world view.

The take away is that succeeding cultures gain rights in the territory in question.

You "take away" whatever you chose to. The fact is succeding cultures have historically imposed a "cultural veneer" over the indigenous population to a greater or lesser extent. this can be seen just about everwhere throughout history. Very rarely has one tribal group ever actually displaced another in the same locale; more often the "dominant" group becomes a social elite that exploits the "subordinate" group until both groups either assimilate to create a new group, or the dominant group is replaced by another, more dominant group, or the subordinate group rises up to thow off their "subordination" to regain their former status as an idependant group.

The problem with the take-away you propose is that you don't apply it to the current succeeding culture -- which is the Jewish people.

Two points:

1. There is no succeeding culture, just a religio-nationalist cult of European settlers/colonists and co-religious immigrants from various places around the world.

2. The Zionist enterprise had the singular misfortune to reach it's apogee at a time when the world had turned it's back on conquest and colonisation.

 

[Challenger]

Oh, no. It is the official survey commissioned by the U.S. and British governments prior to partition. It was the data from this survey that they used to draft Resolution 181, the partition resolution. The Berman Jewish Policy Archive is a Jewish funded archive at Stanford, previously it was at NYU/Wagner. It is available from the U.S. Department of State archives as well.

Whehehehehe. Yes, we know what happens when the British and the French decide to partition land.

Yup, every state is failing except the great state of Israel.

But that seems like a subject for another thread.

This one is apparently based of the ludicrous notion that we don't already have two states with a third just waiting to rear its ugly head in Gaza.

So why a fourth ?

What would it take to unite these three or four states?

Extirpation of Zionist ideology. Once that's gone, Christians, Circassians, Druze, Muslims, and Jewish people, willing to live together, with political and cultural safeguards for all, will create a single state they can all be proud of.