Israel has withdrawn its pledge to US President Barack Obama

[RoccoR]

et al,

I'm not sure what the Israel’s Strategic Affairs Minister and Deputy Prime Minsiter Moshe Ya’alon, is actually saying yet. I know he is quoted as saying something to the effect that Israel “will not rest until the centrifuges in Iran stop spinning;” and that “it may be that someone will have to take military action against Iran.” But it is all vague. It may not be as big a threat to regional peace as it sounds.

I understand that there are many many Americans that are so pro-Israeli that they support and advocate "Acts of War" against Iran; regardless of the consequences regional or otherwise. While it is fairly clear that if Israel starts a region-wide war that would threaten all the oil and water facilities (critical infrastructure) in the Persian Gulf, Iran will not win militarily - the impact could have very far reaching effects that go well beyond the Persian Gulf customer base. And even if the US doesn't derive any oil from the Persian Gulf, there are many countries that do and the remaining oil producing regions will have to spread its oil out further to cover all the users.

Iran has played its cards very well. It would apear that without even having a nuclear weapons capacity, it has shaken Israel, the only Regional Nuclear Power, to the point of threatening open war; being the aggressor.

Iran, in retaliation, will undoubtedly strike-out in all directions, and attempt to close the straits; as well as target GCC Water Desalinization Plants and Oil Processing Facilities. Such events will play havoc on the economic scene, which is already troubled in Europe, Asia and the Atlantic region.

It is probably better to see what compromises the current P5+1 Talks with Iran develop.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[ERGO]

et al,

I'm not sure what the Israel’s Strategic Affairs Minister and Deputy Prime Minsiter Moshe Ya’alon, is actually saying yet. I know he is quoted as saying something to the effect that Israel “will not rest until the centrifuges in Iran stop spinning;” and that “it may be that someone will have to take military action against Iran.” But it is all vague. It may not be as big a threat to regional peace as it sounds.

I understand that there are many many Americans that are so pro-Israeli that they support and advocate "Acts of War" against Iran; regardless of the consequences regional or otherwise. While it is fairly clear that if Israel starts a region-wide war that would threaten all the oil and water facilities (critical infrastructure) in the Persian Gulf, Iran will not win militarily - the impact could have very far reaching effects that go well beyond the Persian Gulf customer base. And even if the US doesn't derive any oil from the Persian Gulf, there are many countries that do and the remaining oil producing regions will have to spread its oil out further to cover all the users.

Iran has played its cards very well. It would apear that without even having a nuclear weapons capacity, it has shaken Israel, the only Regional Nuclear Power, to the point of threatening open war; being the aggressor.

Iran, in retaliation, will undoubtedly strike-out in all directions, and attempt to close the straits; as well as target GCC Water Desalinization Plants and Oil Processing Facilities. Such events will play havoc on the economic scene, which is already troubled in Europe, Asia and the Atlantic region.




It is probably better to see what compromises the current P5+1 Talks with Iran develop.

Most Respectfully,
R

I agree, an attack on Iran will wreak havoc on the global economy. Iran will definitely not sit idly by while being attacked.
I think there is more to it than this Nuclear issue, because Iran, being a signatory of the NNPT, has allowed IAEA inspections of it's facilities and with nuclear industry expert Clinton Bastin giving his analysis of Iran's nuclear program, tells me there must be more to this than meets the eye.
Persia is an ancient enemy of Israel, this is shown in the book of Ester and the reason for the Purim celebrations. It seems it was around the time of Ahmadinejad's hosting of the Holocaust conference in Iran in December of 2006 that things started to really get heated up in Israel and pressure started to mount for an attack on Iran. This conference did not sit well with Israel and international Jewry.
Israel does have an expansionist agenda for a greater Israel, from the Nile to the Euphrates. The map of Eretz Israel is in plain view near the Knesset building.

To a lot of Jews, the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel heralds the appearance of the Jewish Messiah and the Jews' prophesied complete dominance over all Peoples followed by the other Peoples' judgement and then extermination.
For Jews there is no conflict in supremacist Judaism between these two Jewish "ideals" of Jewish Nationalism and the concurrent destruction of Gentile Nationalism. The estalishment of a Jewish kingdom to rule and ruin the Earth is the expressed purpose of Judaism and the attainment of these goals is the only reason that racist Jews have kept, their people segregated, or tried to, from the rest of humanity for some 2500 years.
They remain separate so that they can eventually rule and utterly destroy every other group of human beings. It is their "devine" wish and sole purpose and they believe that when they accomplished these horrific goals, God will bless them with a "new earth" and a new spirit and a new heart and will cover their dry bones with a new flesh, as promised in the Jewish apocalyptic nightmares of Isaiah and Ezekiel. This "new earth" will not suffer Gentile life. These Cabalistic Jews, and their Christian dupes who have been schooled to believe in the "Rapture", intend to destroy the world so as to provoke God to create the "new earth".They do not fear the genetic harm they are deliberately causing humanity, nor do they fear the environmental harm they are causing humanity, because they believe that these will hasten the arrival of the Jewish Messiah and the appearance of a "new earth".

The Zohar, I, 28a-h, states...

 

[Jroc]

et al,

I'm not sure what the Israel’s Strategic Affairs Minister and Deputy Prime Minsiter Moshe Ya’alon, is actually saying yet. I know he is quoted as saying something to the effect that Israel “will not rest until the centrifuges in Iran stop spinning;” and that “it may be that someone will have to take military action against Iran.” But it is all vague. It may not be as big a threat to regional peace as it sounds.

I understand that there are many many Americans that are so pro-Israeli that they support and advocate "Acts of War" against Iran; regardless of the consequences regional or otherwise. While it is fairly clear that if Israel starts a region-wide war that would threaten all the oil and water facilities (critical infrastructure) in the Persian Gulf, Iran will not win militarily - the impact could have very far reaching effects that go well beyond the Persian Gulf customer base. And even if the US doesn't derive any oil from the Persian Gulf, there are many countries that do and the remaining oil producing regions will have to spread its oil out further to cover all the users.

Iran has played its cards very well. It would apear that without even having a nuclear weapons capacity, it has shaken Israel, the only Regional Nuclear Power, to the point of threatening open war; being the aggressor.

Iran, in retaliation, will undoubtedly strike-out in all directions, and attempt to close the straits; as well as target GCC Water Desalinization Plants and Oil Processing Facilities. Such events will play havoc on the economic scene, which is already troubled in Europe, Asia and the Atlantic region.




It is probably better to see what compromises the current P5+1 Talks with Iran develop.

Most Respectfully,
R

I agree, an attack on Iran will wreak havoc on the global economy. Iran will definitely not sit idly by while being attacked.
I think there is more to it than this Nuclear issue, because Iran, being a signatory of the NNPT, has allowed IAEA inspections of it's facilities and with nuclear industry expert Clinton Bastin giving his analysis of Iran's nuclear program, tells me there must be more to this than meets the eye.
Persia is an ancient enemy of Israel, this is shown in the book of Ester and the reason for the Purim celebrations. It seems it was around the time of Ahmadinejad's hosting of the Holocaust conference in Iran in December of 2006 that things started to really get heated up in Israel and pressure started to mount for an attack on Iran. This conference did not sit well with Israel and international Jewry.
Israel does have an expansionist agenda for a greater Israel, from the Nile to the Euphrates. The map of Eretz Israel is in plain view near the Knesset building.

To a lot of Jews, the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel heralds the appearance of the Jewish Messiah and the Jews' prophesied complete dominance over all Peoples followed by the other Peoples' judgement and then extermination.
For Jews there is no conflict in supremacist Judaism between these two Jewish "ideals" of Jewish Nationalism and the concurrent destruction of Gentile Nationalism. The estalishment of a Jewish kingdom to rule and ruin the Earth is the expressed purpose of Judaism and the attainment of these goals is the only reason that racist Jews have kept, their people segregated, or tried to, from the rest of humanity for some 2500 years.
They remain separate so that they can eventually rule and utterly destroy every other group of human beings. It is their "devine" wish and sole purpose and they believe that when they accomplished these horrific goals, God will bless them with a "new earth" and a new spirit and a new heart and will cover their dry bones with a new flesh, as promised in the Jewish apocalyptic nightmares of Isaiah and Ezekiel. This "new earth" will not suffer Gentile life. These Cabalistic Jews, and their Christian dupes who have been schooled to believe in the "Rapture", intend to destroy the world so as to provoke God to create the "new earth".They do not fear the genetic harm they are deliberately causing humanity, nor do they fear the environmental harm they are causing humanity, because they believe that these will hasten the arrival of the Jewish Messiah and the appearance of a "new earth".

The Zohar, I, 28a-h, states...

This is why you deserve no response stormfront boy. You're a whack job and know nothing about the Jewish religion.Wow!... Where do you people come from?

 

[RoccoR]

ERGO, et al,

Oh yes. There is much more.

I agree, an attack on Iran will wreak havoc on the global economy. Iran will definitely not sit idly by while being attacked.

I think there is more to it than this Nuclear issue, because Iran, being a signatory of the NNPT, has allowed IAEA inspections of it's facilities and with nuclear industry expert Clinton Bastin giving his analysis of Iran's nuclear program, tells me there must be more to this than meets the eye.

(COMMENT)

Iran, being a signatory of the NNPT is not an issue at all. Any signatory may, under Article X of the Treaty, give notice and withdraw.

Each Party shall in exercising its national sovereignty have the right to withdraw from the Treaty if it decides that extraordinary events, related to the subject matter of this Treaty, have jeopardized the supreme interests of its country. It shall give notice of such withdrawal to all other Parties to the Treaty and to the United Nations Security Council three months in advance. Such notice shall include a statement of the extraordinary events it regards as having jeopardized its supreme interests.

SOURCE: TREATY ON THE NON-PROLIFERATION OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS

In fact, the US and Israel have already given Iran cause. All Iran has to do is quote the Threats by Israel (A Regional Nuclear Power outside the NPT) and those endorsements for War by US Presidential Candidates.

Iran wants to become a major voice in the Region. It wants to become the Lord Protector of the Persian Gulf. It want to replace the US as the foreign military umbrella for the Region. t wants to be memorialized as the defender of the Islamic Faith and all who believe in it. Chronicled as the Islamic Republic that became a Super Power, by other means.

Understanding the purpose and the intention of Iran, is the key to understanding how to neutralize it as a regional threat to peace and the economies of energy dependencies tied to the Gulf.

Persia is an ancient enemy of Israel, ... ... ...

(COMMENT)

The Israel of today, as well as the Israeli of today, are no more connected to the Israelites of two millennium ago --- any more than the Iranians of today have any relationship to the Persians of Darius (prior to his defeat by Alexander). It all belong to the Greeks (The Macedonians) once if you go back that far (2300 years ago).

If you go back that far, it becomes a time before the major religions of the region. Nooo...

Any references to, much beyond WWI (about a hundred years ago), and you are out of context; no matter which side of the equation you promote. No, that is one of the fallacies that both sides cling to that is irrelevant. I doubt that you can find any DNA evidence that shows a connection between the Supreme Lead Ayatollah Sayyed Ali Khamenei and Darius; any more than you can find DNA that connects Benjamin Netanyahu to Solomon' or Solomon's son Rehoboam (or any one in the House of David). It is pure foolishness; there is no linage there at all.

To a lot of Jews, the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel heralds the appearance of the Jewish Messiah and the Jews' prophesied complete dominance over all Peoples followed by the other Peoples' judgement and then extermination.

(COMMENT)

We are all still here. There will always be Iranians and Israelis that believe in fables and folk tales; just as my daughter once believed in the Easter Bunny. But delusions of grandeur (common in paranoia) that you belong to an ancient society or social order greater and more powerful and influential than you really are is a sign that you don't have a grasp on reality as it is today (Iranian or Israeli). And such delusions of greatness are dangerous.

For Jews there is no conflict in supremacist Judaism between these two Jewish "ideals" of Jewish Nationalism and the concurrent destruction of Gentile Nationalism. The estalishment of a Jewish kingdom to rule and ruin the Earth is the expressed purpose of Judaism and the attainment of these goals is the only reason that racist Jews have kept, their people segregated, or tried to, from the rest of humanity for some 2500 years.

(COMMENT)

There is no rational Israeli that can possibly think that the indigenous population of the Region 2500 years ago has any relationship to them today. That would be like me saying that my Italian decent entitles me to a connection to the Roman Empire. Hell, I bet if I go back far enough, I'll find an Arab connection in my family (I'm Sicilian), and Mafia is an Arabic word dating back to the occupation (Emirate of Sicily).

... ... ... because they believe that these will hasten the arrival of the Jewish Messiah and the appearance of a "new earth".

(COMMENT)

What can I say. I really don't believe that the average Israeli really believes this. Oh yes, you will always find crazies in any significant population, just as you find radicals within Islam. But I'm hoping that this foolishness, on both end of the spectrum, is contained and dwindling.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[waltky]

Would imagine Iran takes that as a green light for their nuclear program...

US: Setting red lines for Iran is not useful
09/11/2012 - State Department statement follows Clinton's comment against setting deadlines on the Iranian nuclear program.

The US State Department on Monday said setting red lines on the Iranian nuclear program is not useful, following Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's statement Sunday that Washington is "not setting deadlines." Noting US President Barack Obama's pledge not to allow Iran to obtain nuclear weapons, State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland reiterated, "We are absolutely firm about the president's commitment here, but it is not useful to be parsing it, to be setting deadlines one way or the other, red lines." Washington places precedence on applying pressure on Tehran and engaging it diplomatically, all the while conducting "intensive consultations with Israel," she added.

In Jerusalem, one senior government official said Monday that Clinton's comment on not setting deadlines for Iran could have the effect of putting the Islamic Republic at ease, a sign of heightened tension between Jerusalem and Washington over the Iranian nuclear issue. "Without a clear red line Iran will not cease its race toward a nuclear weapon," the official said, breaking Jerusalem's day-long silence on Clinton's comments in an interview with Bloomberg Radio Sunday evening. "These sorts of statements will not stop Iran's centrifuges from spinning, unfortunately the opposite could be true," the official said. "This won't deter Iran, but could put it at ease."

Clinton raised eyebrows in Jerusalem by saying the US was “not setting deadlines” for Iran and still considered negotiations as “by far the best approach” to preventing Iran from developing nuclear weapons. Her words came within hours of Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu telling the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation that Jerusalem and the US were discussing what kind of "red lines" needed to be drawn to keep Iran from pursuing its nuclear program. "I think what is important to realize is that Iran will not stop unless it sees clear determination by the democratic countries of the world and a clear red line," he said. "I don’t think that they see a clear red line, and I think the sooner we establish one, the greater the chances that there won’t be a need for other types of action."

Netanyahu, who has carefully avoided spelling out what exactly he means by "red lines," said they could be "a clear delineation of a line which Iran cannot cross in its pursuit of the development of nuclear weapons capability. If Iran saw that, there’s a chance, I won’t say it’s guaranteed, but there’s a chance they might pause before they cross that line." Clinton, asked if the Obama administration would lay out sharper “red lines” for Iran or state explicitly the consequences of failing to negotiate a deal with world powers by a certain date, said, “We’re not setting deadlines.” “We’re watching very carefully about what they do, because it’s always been more about their actions than their words,” she said.

More US: Setting red lines for Iran i... JPost - Iranian Threat - News

See also:

U.S. Attack on Iran Would Take Hundreds of Planes, Ships, and Missiles
September 7, 2012 | Should the U.S. actually take Benjamin Netanyahu’s advice and attack Iran, don’t expect a few sorties flown by a couple of fighter jocks. Setting back Iran’s nuclear efforts will need to be an all-out effort, with squadrons of bombers and fighter jets, teams of commandos, rings of interceptor missiles and whole Navy carrier strike groups — plus enough drones, surveillance gear, tanker aircraft and logistical support to make such a massive mission go. And all of it, at best, would buy the U.S. and Israel another decade of a nuke-free Iran.

There’s been a lot of loose talk and leaked tales about what an attack on Iran might ultimately entail. Anthony Cordesman, one of Washington’s best-connected defense analysts, has put together a remarkably detailed inventory of what it would take to strike Iran (.pdf), cataloging everything from the number of bombers required to the types of bombs they ought to carry. He analyzes both Israeli and American strikes, both nuclear and not. He examines possible Iranian counterattacks, and ways to neutralize them. It leads Cordesman to a two-fold conclusion:

* “Israel does not have the capability to carry out preventive strikes that could do more than delay Iran’s efforts for a year or two.” Despite the increasingly sharp rhetoric coming out of Jerusalem, the idea of Israel launching a unilateral attack is almost as bad as allowing Tehran to continue its nuclear work unchallenged. It would invite wave after wave of Iranian counterattacks — by missile, terrorist, and boat — jeopardizing countries throughout the region. It would wreak havoc with the world’s oil supply. And that’s if Israel even manages to pull the mission off — something Cordesman very much doubts.

* The U.S. might be able to delay the nuclear program for up to 10 years. But to do so, it’ll be an enormous undertaking. The initial air strike alone will “require a large force allocation [including] the main bomber force, the suppression of enemy air defense system, escort aircraft for the protection of the bombers, electronic warfare for detection and jamming purposes, fighter sweep and combat air patrol to counter any air retaliation by Iran.”

More U.S. Attack on Iran Would Take Hundreds of Planes, Ships, and Missiles | Danger Room | Wired.com