Israel has been spying, AGAIN!!

[jillian]

HA!

yea... way to hand out the needed excuse du jour.. Indeed, were this a muslim or a commie we'd be talking about setting up gallows by now. Shit, it's only protocol that info that may or may not have been shared anyway is free for the TAKING!

Israel's agenda toward the U.S. is the same as Muslim countries or commies?

Wonder how much info Prince Bandar has brought back to the Saudis through backchannels.

So HA back.

 

[Shogun]

Israel's agenda toward the U.S. is the same as Muslim countries or commies?

Wonder how much info Prince Bandar has brought back to the Saudis through backchannels.

So HA back.

Of course it's not while they have the US on a leash.. Let the US take a moment to look out for itself instead of acting like israels body guard and ask me that question.. Hell, given the repercussions of Israels treatment of pals let's see the US try to extend a hand to muslims in refugee camps and count the seconds until the standard label and holocaust reminders come out.

So, then is it OK for England, Germany, France, Italy, China of Japan to spy on the US too?

WHAT?!?!?! NO!?!?!

Prince Bandar was invited as a guest.. is that how Israel sees the application of it's spies?


did you catch the Olmert article I posted? hey, let's ignore the rise of a radical right wing in israel who wants to free assasins who put a stop to that whole road to peace shit!

It's amazing that you would rationalize espionage when it's israel doing the spying. anyone else would be tried aggressively.. but, since israel IS the chosen land...

 

[Shogun]

Here, let me reiterate...


Around 2,000 extreme-right Israelis, many of them Jewish settlers from the occupied West Bank, on Sunday staged the first significant protest against Israeli-Palestinian negotiations ahead of a US-sponsored peace conference.

"What do such posters mean? That you think the president of Israel does not defend the interests of Israel but of Arabs?" he hammered.

Posters depicted Rabin in the same way during a campaign of right-wing incitement that preceded his assassination in 1995.



No, jillian. Israel is not a nation worth blindly trusting over some lame fucking dogma or ethnic common denominator. I'd expect mexican-Americans to expect a spy from Mexico City to be charged. It's too bad the jewish population in the US is more concerned with the state of israel than the united states.

 

[Shogun]

*silence*

 

[jillian]

Here, let me reiterate...


Around 2,000 extreme-right Israelis, many of them Jewish settlers from the occupied West Bank, on Sunday staged the first significant protest against Israeli-Palestinian negotiations ahead of a US-sponsored peace conference.

"What do such posters mean? That you think the president of Israel does not defend the interests of Israel but of Arabs?" he hammered.

Posters depicted Rabin in the same way during a campaign of right-wing incitement that preceded his assassination in 1995.

The people charged aren't from the West Bank. Did you bother looking at their defense?

Of course not.

And THAT is why it isn't worth discussing. If they were being used the way they say they were, they weren't spying.

Can you name one other spy whose been convicted of spying for a friendly nation other than Jonathan Pollard? Have you ever heard of one convicted of spying for a friendly nation receiving a life sentence?

Didn't think so.

 

[Shogun]

I never stated that the people caught spying WERE from the west bank. I posted that article to show you the rise of a dangerous right wing in israel.. Yes, ISRAEL.. shocker, i know... being that jews are, apparently, simply incapable of mounting a similar historic examples of rabid right wing bullshit.

If this were a case about muslims israel would be beating the war drum IN THE UNITED STATES calling for THE UNITED STATES to invade some mulsim nation.

yet, when ISRAEL does it... well... THEN it's not worth talking about since, apparently, blah blah blah.

But praytel.. WHAT is the defense for spying on the US.... Is it similar to the LAST TIME SOMEONE WAS CAUGHT SPYING FOR ISRAEL?


hey, make another excuse du jour, jillian... it's not like you are an American or anything.. not while there is a zion to consider, right? Why expect you to worry about the US when israel needs a blank check to spy, have nukes, treat pals like the germans treated them, instigate conflict with muslim nation to the detriment of OUR nation... indeed, why give a fuck about all that when it's obviously time to look the other way for the sake of the next master race, eh?



ps,


Julius Rosenberg (May 12, 1918 – June 19, 1953) and Ethel Greenglass Rosenberg (September 28, 1915 – June 19, 1953) were American Communists who received international attention when they were executed having been found guilty of conspiracy to commit espionage in relation to passing information on the American nuclear bomb to the Soviet Union.



so, we have AMERICANS hung for CONSPIRACY to commit espionage...


....and yet you stick to a ridiculous "our friends can spy on us if they want to" tangent?



for real.. if you want to be an American then perhaps you should reconsider your motivations when israel is looking for another double standard to skirt international policy with.

Catching TWO SPYS is half a fucking decade is not acceptable no matter how many zionist excuses you think are applicable.

 

[jillian]

Did you read my questions? Or did you just want another opportunity to liken Israel to Muslim nations?

My questions were: Can you name one other spy whose been convicted of spying for a friendly nation other than Jonathan Pollard? Have you ever heard of one convicted of spying for a friendly nation receiving a life sentence?

And: Did you bother looking at their defense?

Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were convicted of spying for the Soviet Union during the height of the McCarthy Era? You want to compare our relationship with the Soviet Union at that time with our relationship with Israel?

I do find it interesting,though, that you chose Julius and Ethel Rosenberg. They were jew spies, too. And, I am in a bit of a unique position to discuss their case because I had the opportunity, while working on a project in law school, to go out to the Federal Archives in Bayonne, NJ, and read the trial transcript of their case.

Did you know that the "evidence" which convicted them was a side table that ostensibly had a secret compartment? Did you know that table was never produced at trial?

Did you know that the testimony which put them to death was offered by Ethel's own brother who actually DID work at Los Alamos and wanted to save his own skin so allowed his nephews' mother and father to be put to death?

Did you know that if the case hadn't taken place at the height of the commie threat; didn't have a jew judge who was terrified of being labeled a commie like other jews of the time; and didn't have a jury who had been revved into such a frenzy that they were hungry for commie red meat, the Rosenbergs never would have been convicted?

Good case to rely upon.

Thanks.

 

[Shogun]

"Did you read my questions? Or did you just want another opportunity to liken Israel to Muslim nations? "

hehehe... uh, because israel is AUTOMATICALLY more innocent than one of those evil fucking muslim nation, right? you know.. even though we DID just catch the second batch of spys in less than half a fucking decade? indeed, with friends like israel....


"My questions were: Can you name one other spy whose been convicted of spying for a friendly nation other than Jonathan Pollard? Have you ever heard of one convicted of spying for a friendly nation receiving a life sentence?"


"FREINDLY" doesn't spy on their friends. Do you think israel would be similarly forgiving if a german was caught spying on them? of course not. THEN it would be a clear sign of rampant european anti-semitism and one more reason to yank on the pit bull US's chain.

as to your question:

On February 22, 1994, Ames and his wife were formally charged by the United States Department of Justice with spying for the Soviet Union and Russia. Ames could have faced the death penalty, since his betrayal had resulted in several CIA "assets" being killed.[11] However, he received a sentence of life imprisonment, and his wife received a 5-year prison sentence for conspiracy to commit espionage and tax evasion as part of a plea-bargain by Ames. Upon her release from prison, Rosario went to South America to reside.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldrich_Ames


86, 04 and now 07. How many times does it take to make you wonder about israels motives, jillian? How many muslims would have been strung up if in the exact same position as these three separate fucking instances of SPYING, jillian?

I know I know.. Pollard's life sentence, INSTEAD OF EXECUTION, sure is a telltale sign of blatant hatred of jews in america.. *yawn*


"And: Did you bother looking at their defense?"

praytell... why don't YOU post their defense so we can all see how far common denominator-Americans will go to find a rug to sweep espionage under. PLEASE sow me how you rationalize the act of spying on YOUR COUNTRY. And, if you don't mind, post it in arabic so we can see if the same double standard sounds as acceptable coming from a muslim.



"Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were convicted of spying for the Soviet Union during the height of the McCarthy Era? You want to compare our relationship with the Soviet Union at that time with our relationship with Israel?"


When it comes to espionage against the USA then, yes, I'll compare ANY OBVIOUSLY HOSTILE NATION WITH ANY OTHER OBVIOUSLY HOSTILE NATION.

Funny, maybe russia would have been a different story altogether had we given them the same double standard with THEIR nukes as we hand out to israel, eh? It's pretty fucking easy to be friendly with the nation giving you that extra spoonful of sugar, isn't it? The FACT is, the Rosenburg's were AMERICAN and were charges with CONSPIRACY and we still hung their asses. We should be doing the same with every spy we catch pilfering our nation, jillian. Just because you have that common denominator with israel doesn't forgive the hostile act of spying.



"I do find it interesting,though, that you chose Julius and Ethel Rosenberg. They were jew spies, too. And, I am in a bit of a unique position to discuss their case because I had the opportunity, while working on a project in law school, to go out to the Federal Archives in Bayonne, NJ, and read the trial transcript of their case."


lemme guess... i MUST HAVE picked the rosenburgs as an example because im a giant jooo hating antisemite, right? *yawn* It ALWAYS comes down to that single shot defense, doesnt it? ALWAYS.



"Did you know that the "evidence" which convicted them was a side table that ostensibly had a secret compartment? Did you know that table was never produced at trial?"


indeed, I've read about the trial. I don't think it was some giant jooo hating anti-semite fest in America if that's what you are alluding to.


"Did you know that the testimony which put them to death was offered by Ethel's own brother who actually DID work at Los Alamos and wanted to save his own skin so allowed his nephews' mother and father to be put to death?"

great. plea bargains were invented that day? Are you automatically ASSUMING their innocence, jillian? Why, oh WHY might that be the case?


"Did you know that if the case hadn't taken place at the height of the commie threat; didn't have a jew judge who was terrified of being labeled a commie like other jews of the time; and didn't have a jury who had been revved into such a frenzy that they were hungry for commie red meat, the Rosenbergs never would have been convicted?"


you are projecting. You cannot predict the outcome of a hypothetical. Funny, I love how in one paragraph you make it clear that A) a poor jewish judge had to convict or be picked on by evil goyim as a commie B) it was the treatment of OTHER JEWS at the time, auswitz like im sure, that caused the Rosenbergs to become some kind of scapegoat and C) that the evil goyim jury was just our for some poor innocent hebrew blood like wolves gnashing their teeth for poor picked on innocent jews...

Yes, it's attitudes like that which belay your motivation for casting ANY criminal behaviour by a jew as less criminal than it is. Like I said, if you want to be an AMERICAN then act like it. If you want to be an ISRAELI then it's time to find you some pal land to settle on and enjoy zion. Your capacity to whitewash jewish behaviour is fucking lame. We have a standard of laws that SHOULD apply consistently regardless of your link to the chosen race.


"Good case to rely upon. "

Indeed, it is. Maybe if you took off the star of david on your sleeve and replaced it with an american flag...

 

[actsnoblemartin]

and what happened to the rosenbergs in 1952?

give you a hint: electric chair

we have a jew: serving life

I dont know if every other spy serves life

but i think youre wrong in this case

I dont approve of isreal spying on america, as much as i love her.

just ask america, she'll help you israel

another double standard.

We hang people when they spy for Russia...


but let a jew do it and all of a sudden it's the norm.


talk about consistency...

 

[Ninja]

Robert Hanssen is serving life. Aldrich Ames is serving life. Both spied for Russia. The Rosenbergs bolster Shogun's case as much as Israel's (non-existent) nuclear arsenal.

 

[Shogun]

and what happened to the rosenbergs in 1952?
give you a hint: electric chair
we have a jew: serving life
I dont know if every other spy serves life
but i think youre wrong in this case
I dont approve of isreal spying on america, as much as i love her.
just ask america, she'll help you israel

put the crackpipe down, dude.

Being AMERICAN does not mandate support for isrrael. If israel is more important to you than the security of your own nation then perhaps it's time for you to move.

If we catch a spy, be it from a friendly nation or not, we should react harshly even if you share a common ethnic denominator. EVERY person we catch in espionage AGAINST the united states should get life if not the chair. Making excuses and letting israel function on a double standard belays the fact that you hold more concern for israel than you do America. If that's the case....

 

[Shogun]

Robert Hanssen is serving life. Aldrich Ames is serving life. Both spied for Russia. The Rosenbergs bolster Shogun's case as much as Israel's (non-existent) nuclear arsenal.

non-exhistant?

are you being sarcastic or dense?

 

[actsnoblemartin]

You totally mis-read me. But hey its the internet.

Let me give you the 411.

I said, the rosenbergs got electricuted for spying, a bit harsh dont you think?

you said or someone did, jews get away with it.

another jewish guy got life.

so its not like we turn a blind eye

I love israel, not more then america

I can love two countries.

I said, i cannot condone spying on america, by any country clear enough.

And, kinda cheap with the crack pipe comment dont ya think

put the crackpipe down, dude.

Being AMERICAN does not mandate support for isrrael. If israel is more important to you than the security of your own nation then perhaps it's time for you to move.

If we catch a spy, be it from a friendly nation or not, we should react harshly even if you share a common ethnic denominator. EVERY person we catch in espionage AGAINST the united states should get life if not the chair. Making excuses and letting israel function on a double standard belays the fact that you hold more concern for israel than you do America. If that's the case....

 

[Shogun]

read the treason thread. The last israeli spy to get caught was given 13 years.


versus LIFE and the DEATH penalty.


no, I do not believe that capitol punishment is too harsh for espionage. Certainly Life is as low as I'd be willing to go. Take a gander at israels official stance on the ONE guy from israel convicted for life. Kinda reminds you of their official stance on their nukes, eh?


I apologize for the crackpipe comment, and you can love however many countries you want to, but when it comes to hostile acts there can be no quarter for "friendly" nations who get their hand caught in the cookie jar even if you share a common ethnic denominator. Israel is not infallable and MUST be held to the same standard that everyone else must follow or the standards, themselves, mean nothing.


you'll find this is true in regards to nukes, spys, human rights and refugee camps too.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

Thank you for the apology. Youre a good man. Ive always enjoyed reading youre posts.

You are 100% right, no excuse for israel spying on us, or any nation spying us, friendly or not.

I cant allow my bias toward israel to cloud my judgment/love for america or im a traitor and a treasonist.

No spying on u.s. is acceptible, EVER, no exceptions.

if someone needs or wants info, ask us.

if we say no, suck it up and move on

read the treason thread. The last israeli spy to get caught was given 13 years.


versus LIFE and the DEATH penalty.


no, I do not believe that capitol punishment is too harsh for espionage. Certainly Life is as low as I'd be willing to go. Take a gander at israels official stance on the ONE guy from israel convicted for life. Kinda reminds you of their official stance on their nukes, eh?


I apologize for the crackpipe comment, and you can love however many countries you want to, but when it comes to hostile acts there can be no quarter for "friendly" nations who get their hand caught in the cookie jar even if you share a common ethnic denominator. Israel is not infallable and MUST be held to the same standard that everyone else must follow or the standards, themselves, mean nothing.


you'll find this is true in regards to nukes, spys, human rights and refugee camps too.

 

[Shogun]

thank you for considering my point instead of simply labeling me a jew hating anti-semite.


I think the record of selective punishment speaks for itself.

 

[Shogun]

Nov 8, 2007 10:44 | Updated Nov 8, 2007 23:50
Initiative to check gov't's failure to release Pollard

The head of the Knesset's State Control Committee, MK Zevulun Orlev (National Union-National Religious Party), said Thursday that he is planning to ask the top government watchdog to launch a probe into Israel's failure to win the release of convicted American spy Jonathan Pollard.

Orlev's proposal, which is pending Knesset approval, would see State Comptroller Micha Lindenstrauss investigate why Israel has failed to obtain Pollard's release over the past two decades.

"I wish to examine whether the Israeli government is doing everything it takes to bring about the release of Jonathan Pollard," Orlev said in an interview on Army Radio.

A former US Navy intelligence analyst, Pollard, 53, has served nearly 22 years of a life sentence for espionage.

Orlev, who has garnered cross-parliamentary support for the comptroller investigation, also suggested that Pollard's release should be raised again with the US administration ahead of the Annapolis conference. "Has the government of Israel, in this context, raised the matter of Pollard's release, and not only the release of Palestinian terrorists?" he asked.

Pollard's wife Esther downplayed the idea of an Israeli investigation, saying Thursday that it would only undermine the sense of urgency in the case.

"On the eve of the Annapolis summit this is not the time for investigations, but for action to bring him home alive," she said. "As everyone knows, investigations in Israel take years and years, and this announcement forecasts another few years of talking," she added.

Israeli efforts to attain Pollard's release peaked during the Netanyahu administration, when the former premier asked former president Bill Clinton for clemency for Pollard during 1998 peace talks at the Wye Plantation in Maryland. Clinton agreed to favorably review the case, and reached what Israeli political sources termed at the time "a tacit understanding" that Pollard would be released as part of the peace process.

But following media leaks, and the outcry and rabid opposition from some officials in the US intelligence community, including then CIA Director George Tenet - who reportedly threatened to resign if Clinton acceded to former Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu's request for a pardon - the former president then backpedaled from the understanding, and Pollard remained in jail.

It was during Netanyahu's tenure as prime minister last decade that Israel acknowledged Pollard had worked for its intelligence services and granted him citizenship.

Pollard's supporters say that his sentence is much harsher than warranted considering he passed the documents to a US ally.

Last year, the US Supreme Court refused to give Pollard access to records that could bolster his case for a presidential clemency.

A US federal appeals court previously said that it had no authority to review requests for the documents.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1192380765788&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

 

[actsnoblemartin]

Your welcome, but i wanna give you an apology.

In the past i would be quick to label you or others anti semetic out of immaturity and anger, but calling someone names, even if you think they are is too easy and just cheapens the word and because its being so over used, and its a cheap shot i believe i dont use it

I dont believe nor have i ever believed you were racist.

I will do my best to always consider your point of view as you are a very articulate and rational person.

thanks for being my friend

And youre right, a crime is a crime.

we cant play favorites.

thank you for considering my point instead of simply labeling me a jew hating anti-semite.


I think the record of selective punishment speaks for itself.

 

[Detmurds]

We are the very most prosperous country in the world due to our support of Israel! God himself has done this.

Don't hate!

 

[doniston]

We are the very most prosperous country in the world due to our support of Israel! God himself has done this.

Don't hate!

I have no complain that you are a Christian, to each his own,but that statement is just plain BS