Israel approves construction of 1,200 settler homes ahead of Palestinian UN statehood

[kvetch]

Israel moves ahead construction of 1,200 settler homes ahead of Palestinian UN statehood bid - The Washington Post

Neten yahoo is up shit creek big time

His reckless gambling has backfired spectacularly

He lost his bet on Romney and faces sweet revenge from Obama, who can now put the evil AIPAC in its place and regain control of US foreign policy from the Israel lobby

His bet on Likud / Liebemann also looks very very dodgy and even more dangerous to Israel

Abbas has outflanked him at the UN and on Israeli TV, too

So back to theft...that's all he really knows how to do

What effect do you all think the re election of Obama will have on Israel and the Palestinians?

 

[sealadaigh]

irreparable for israel...
no matter what obama does.

 

[kvetch]

irreparable for israel...
no matter what obama does.

i think it's too early to say that!!

 

[YKohen]

Obviously we will build here in OUR land.

And with a population that is growing so much faster than the country as a whole, we need much more housing to meet the demand.

 

[varelse]

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v13/v13n4p29_Weber.html

 

[YKohen]

Zionism and the Third Reich

LOL!

The IHR is not regarded as conducting historical research by mainstream historians and academics, but rather as conducting pseudo-science aimed at proving that the Holocaust did not happen. The editorial board of one of the leading historical journals, the Journal of American History, wrote:

"We all abhor, on both moral and scholarly grounds, the substantive arguments of the Institute for Historical Review. We reject their claims to be taken seriously as historians."

Journal of American History, Vol 80, No. 3, p. 1213.

In April 2004, following a complaint by the David S. Wyman Institute for Holocaust Studies, The Nation magazine refused to accept advertising from the IHR, stating:

"[T]here is a strong presumption against censoring any advertisement, especially if we disagree with its politics. This case, however, is different. Their arguments are 'patently fraudulent.'"

 

[varelse]

ed, during the 1930s no nation did more to substantively further Jewish-Zionist goals than Hitler's Germany.

Notes

1.W. Martini, "Hebr_isch unterm Hakenkreuz," Die Welt (Hamburg), Jan. 10, 1975. Cited in: Klaus Polken, "The Secret Contacts: Zionism and Nazi Germany, 1933-1941," Journal of Palestine Studies, Spring-Summer 1976, p. 65. 2.Quoted in: Ingri Weckert, Feuerzeichen: Die "Reichskristallnacht" (Tübingen: Grabert, 1981), p. 212. See also: Th. Herzl, The Jewish State (New York: Herzl Press, 1970), pp. 33, 35, 36, and, Edwin Black, The Transfer Agreement (New York: Macmillan, 1984), p. 73. 3.Th. Herzl, "Der Kongress," Welt, June 4, 1897. Reprinted in: Theodor Herzls zionistische Schriften (Leon Kellner, ed.), erster Teil, Berlin Jüdischer Verlag, 1920, p. 190 (and p. 139). 4.Memo of June 21, 1933, in: L. Dawidowicz, A Holocaust Reader (New York: Behrma 1976), pp. 150-155, and (in part) in: Francis R. Nicosia, The Third Reich and the Palestine Question (Austin: Univ. of Texas, 1985), 42.; On Zionism in Germany before Hitler's assumption of power see: Donald L. Niewyk, The Jews in Weimar Germany (Baton Rouge: 1980), pp. 94-95, 126-131, 140-143.; F. Nicosia, Third Reich (Austin: 1985), pp. 1-15. 5.Jüdische Rundschau (Berlin), Jun 13, 1933. Quoted in: Heinz H_hne, The Order of the Death's Hea (New York: Ballantine, pb., 1971, 1984), pp. 376-377. 6.Heinz Höhne, The Order of the Death's Head (Ballantine, 1971, 1984), 376. 7."Berlin," Encyclopaedia Judaica (New York and Jerusalem: 1971), Vol. 5, p. 648. For a look at one aspect of this "vigorous life," see: J.-C. Horak, "Zionist Film Propaganda in Nazi Germany, Historical Journal of Film, Radio and Television, Vol. 4, No. 1, 1984, pp. 49-58. 8.Francis R. Nicosia, The Third Reich and the Palestine Question (1985), pp. 54-55.; Karl A. Schleunes, The Twisted Road to Auschwitz (Urbana: Univ. of Illinois, 1970, 1990), pp. 178-181. 9.Jacob Boas, "A Nazi Travels to Palestine," History Today (London), January 1980, pp. 33-38. 10.Facsimile reprint of front page of Das Schwarze Korps, May 15, 1935, in: Janusz Piekalkiewicz, Israels Langer Arm (Frankfurt: Goverts, 1975), pp. 66-67. Also quoted in: Heinz H_hne, The Order of the Death's Head (Ballantine, 1971, 1984), p. 377. See also: Erich Kern, ed., Verheimlichte Dokumente (Munich: FZ-Verlag, 1988), p. 184. 11.Das Schwarze Korps, Sept. 26, 1935. Quoted in: F. Nicosia, Th Third Reich and the Palestine Question (1985), pp. 56-57. 12.Lenni Brenner, Zionism in the Age of the Dictators (1983), p. 83. 13.F. Nicosia, The Third Reich and the Palestine Question (1985), p. 60. See also: F. Nicosia, "The Yishuv and the Holocaust, The Journal of Modern History (Chicago), Vol. 64, No. 3, Sept. 1992, pp. 533-540. 14.F. Nicosia, The Third Reich and the Palestine Question (1985), p. 57. 15.Jüdische Rundschau, Sept. 1 1935. Quoted in: Yitzhak Arad, with Y. Gutman and A. Margaliot, eds., Documents on the Holocaust (Jerusalem: Yad Vashem, 1981), pp. 82-83. 16.Der Angriff, Dec. 23, 1935, in: E. Kern, ed., Verheimlichte Dokumente (Munich: 1988), p. 148.; F. Nicosia, Third Reich (1985), p. 56.; L. Brenner, Zionism in the Age of the Dictators (1983), p. 138.; A. Margaliot, "The Reaction...," Yad Vashem Studies (Jerusalem), vol. 12, 1977, pp. 90-91.; On Kareski's remarkable career, see: H. Levine, "A Jewish Collaborator in Nazi Germany," Central European History (Atlanta), Sept. 1975, pp. 251-281. 17."Dr. Wise Urges Jews to Declare Selves as Such," New York Herald Tribune, June 13, 1938 p. 12. 18.F. Nicosia, The Third Reich (1985), p. 53. 19.Lucy Dawidowicz, The War Against the Jews, 1933-1945 (New York: Bantam, pb., 1976), pp. 253-254.; Max Nussbaum, "Zionism Under Hitler," Congress Weekly (New York: American Jewish Congress), Sept. 11, 1942.; F. Nicosia, The Third Reich (1985), pp. 58-60, 217.; Edwin Black, The Transfer Agreement (1984), p. 175. 20.H. H_hne, The Order of the Death's Head (Ballantine, pb., 1984), pp. 380-382.; K. Schleunes, Twisted Road (1970, 1990), p. 226.; Secret internal SS intelligence report about F. Polkes, June 17, 1937, in: John Mendelsohn, ed., The Holocaust (New York: Garland, 1982), vol. 5, pp. 62-64. 21.F. Nicosia, Third Reich (1985 pp. 63-64, 105, 219-220. 22.F. Nicosia, Third Reich (1985), p. 160. 23.This distinction is also implicit in the "Balfour Declaration" of November 1917, in which the British government expressed support for "a national home for the Jewish people" in Palestine, while carefully avoiding any mention of a Jewish state. Referring to the majority Arab population there, the Declaration went on t caution, "...it being clearly understood that nothing shall be don which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non Jewish communities in Palestine." The complete text of the Declaration is reproduced in facsimile in: Robert John, Behind th Balfour Declaration (IHR, 1988), p. 32. 24.F. Nicosia, Third Reich (1985), p. 121. 25.F. Nicosia, Third Reich (1985), p. 124. 26.David Yisraeli, The Palestine Problem in German Politics 1889-1945 (Bar-Ilan University, Israel, 1974), p. 300.; Also in: Documents on German Foreign Policy, Series D, Vol. 5. Doc. No. 564 or 567. 27.K. Schleunes, The Twisted Road (1970, 1990), p. 209. 28.Circular of January 25, 1939. Nuremberg document 3358-PS. International Military Tribunal, Trial of the Major War Criminals Before the International Military Tribunal (Nuremberg: 1947-1949), vol. 32, pp. 242-243. Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression (Washington, DC: 1946-1948), vol. 6, pp. 92-93. 29.F. Nicosia, Third Reich (1985), pp. 141-144.; On Hitler's critical view of Zionism in Mein Kampf, see esp. Vol. 1, Chap. 11. Quoted in: Robert Wistrich, Hitler's Apocalypse (London: 1985), p. 155.; See also: F. Nicosia, Third Reich (1985), pp. 26-28.; Hitler told his arm adjutant in 1939 and again in 1941 that he had asked the British in 1937 about transferring all of Germany's Jews to Palestine or Egypt. The British rejected the proposal, he said, because it would cause further disorder. See: H. v. Kotze, ed., Heeresadjutant bei Hitler (Stuttgart: 1974), pp. 65, 95. 30.F. Nicosia, Third Reich (1985), pp. 156, 160-164, 166-167.; H. H_hne The Order of the Death's Head (Ballantine, pb., 1984), pp. 392-394.; Jon and David Kimche, The Secret Roads (London: Secker and Warburg, 1955), pp. 39-43. See also: David Yisraeli, "The Third Reich and Palestine," Middle Eastern Studies, October 1971 p. 347.; Bernard Wasserstein, Britain and the Jews of Europe, 1939-1945 (1979), pp. 43, 49, 52, 60.; T. Kelly, "Man who fooled Nazis," Washington Times, April 28, 1987, pp. 1B, 4B. Based on interview with Willy Perl, author of The Holocaust Conspiracy. 31.Y. Arad, et al., eds., Documents On the Holocaust (1981), p. 155. (The training kibbutz was at Neuendorf, and may have functioned even after March 1942.) 32.On the Agreement in general, see: Werner Feilchenfeld, et al., Haavara-Transfer nach Palaestina (Tübingen: Mohr/Siebeck, 1972).; David Yisraeli, "The Third Reich and the Transfer Agreement," Journal of Contemporary History (London), No. 2, 1971, pp. 129-148.; "Haavara," Encyclopaedia Judaica (1971), vol. 7, pp. 1012-1013.; Nicosia, The Third Reich and the Palestine Question (Austin: 1985), pp. 44-49.; Raul Hilberg, The Destruction of the European Jews (New York: Holmes and Meier, 1985), pp. 140-141.; The Transfer Agreement, by Edwin Black, is detailed and useful. However, it contains numerous inaccuracies and wildly erroneou conclusions. See, for example, the review by Richard S. Levy in Commentary, Sept. 1984, pp. 68-71. 33.E. Black, The Transfer Agreement (1984), pp. 328, 337. 34.On opposition to the Haavar in official German circles, see: W. Feilchenfeld, et al., Haavara-Transfer nach Palaestina (1972), pp. 31-33.; D. Yisraeli, "The Thir Reich," Journal of Contemporary History, 1971, pp. 136-139.; F. Nicosia, The Third Reich and the Palestine Question, pp. 126-139 I. Weckert, Feuerzeichen (1981), pp. 226-227.; Rolf Vogel, Ein Stempel hat gefehlt (Munich: Droemer Knaur, 1977), pp. 110 ff. 35.W. Feilchenfeld, et al., Haavara-Transfer (1972), p. 31. Entire text in: David Yisraeli, The Palestine Problem in German Politics 1889-1945 (Israel: 1974), pp. 298-300. 36.Interior Ministry internal memo (signed by State Secretary W. Stuckart), Dec. 17, 1937, in: Helmut Eschwege, ed., Kennzeichen J (Berlin: 1966), pp. 132-136. 37.W. Feilchenfeld, et al, Haavara-Transfer (1972), p. 32 38.E. Black, Transfer Agreement, pp. 376-377. 39.E. Black, Transfer Agreement (1984), pp. 376, 378.; F. Nicosia, Third Reich (1985), pp. 238-239 (n. 91). 40.E. Black, Transfer Agreement, p. 379.; F. Nicosia, Third Reich, pp. 212, 255 (n. 66). 41.W. Feilchenfeld, et al., Haavara-Transfer, p. 75.; "Haavara," Encyclopaedia Judaica, (1971), Vol. 7, p. 1013. 42.E. Black, Transfer Agreement, pp. 379, 373, 382. 43.Circular of January 25, 1939. Nuremberg document 3358-PS. International Military Tribunal, Trial of the Major War Criminals Before the International Military Tribunal (Nuremberg: 1947-1949), Vol. 32, pp. 242-243. 44.Werner Feilchenfeld, et al., Haavara-Transfer nach Palaestina (Tübingen: Mohr/Siebeck, 1972). Quoted in: Ingrid Weckert, Feuerzeichen (Tübingen: Grabert, 1981), pp. 222-223. 45.W. Feilchenfeld, et al., Haavara-Transfer nach Palaestina (1972). Quoted in: I. Weckert, Feuerzeichen (1981), p. 224. 46.Original document in German Ausw_rtiges Amt Archiv, Bestand 47-59, E 224152 and E 234155-58. (Photocopy in author's possession).; Complete original German text published in: David Yisraeli, The Palestine Problem in German Politics 1889 1945 (Israel: 1974), pp. 315-317. See also: Klaus Polkhen, "The Secret Contacts," Journal of Palestine Studies, Spring-Summer 1976, pp. 78-80.; (At the time this offer was made, Stern's Lehi group still regarded itself as the true Irgun/NMO.) 47.Arab nationalists opposed Britain, which then dominated much of the Arab world, including Egypt, Iraq and Palestine. Because Britain and Germany were at war, Germany cultivated Arab support. Th leader of Palestine's Arabs, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin el-Husseini, worked closely with Germany during the war years. After escaping from Palestine, he spoke to the Arab world over German radio and helped raise Muslim recruits in Bosnia for the Waffen SS. 48.Israel Shahak, "Yitzhak Shamir, Then and Now," Middle East Policy (Washington, DC), Vol. 1, No. 1, (Whole No. 39), 1992, pp. 27-38.; Yehoshafat Harkabi, Israel's Fateful Hour (New York: Harper and Row, 1988), pp. 213-214. Quoted in: Andrew J. Hurley, Israel and the New World Order (Santa Barbara, Calif.: 1991), pp. 93, 208-209.; Avishai Margalit, "The Violent Life of Yitzhak Shamir," New York Review of Books, May 14, 1992, pp. 18-24.; Lenni Brenner, Zionism in the Age of the Dictators (1983), pp. 266-269.; L. Brenner, Jews in America Today (1986), pp. 175-177.; L. Brenner, "Yitzhak Shamir: On Hitler's Side," Arab Perspectives (League of Arab States), March 1984, pp 11-13. 49.Avishai Margalit, "The Violent Life of Yitzhak Shamir," New York Review of Books, May 14, 1992, pp. 18-24.; Lenni Brenner, Zionism in the Age of the Dictators (1983), pp. 266-269. L. Brenner, Jews in America Today (1986), pp. 175-177.; L. Brenner, "Skeletons in Shamir's Cupboard," Middle East International, Sept. 30, 1983, pp. 15-16.; Sol Stern, L. Rapoport, "Israel's Man of the Shadows," Village Voice (New York), July 3, 1984, pp. 13 ff.

again: http://rense.com/general34/ZAND.HTM

 

[varelse]

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/rosebud/Zionist_not_jews.htm

 

[YKohen]

Information can be manipulated, which is why real historians reject them:

"We all abhor, on both moral and scholarly grounds, the substantive arguments of the Institute for Historical Review. We reject their claims to be taken seriously as historians."

Journal of American History, Vol 80, No. 3, p. 1213.

In April 2004, following a complaint by the David S. Wyman Institute for Holocaust Studies, The Nation magazine refused to accept advertising from the IHR, stating:

"[T]here is a strong presumption against censoring any advertisement, especially if we disagree with its politics. This case, however, is different. Their arguments are 'patently fraudulent.'"

 

[YKohen]

Zionist/Nazi Pact

LOL! Did you see who you are quoting? Go up 1 level and you'll find this:

[FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][ Up ] [ Illuminati ] [ Mason/zionist ] [ Worshippers of Lucifer ] [ Website List ] [ Jews & Zionism ] [ Holocaust Revisionism ] [ Bush Profile ] [ Zionist/Nazi Pact ] [ New World Order Quotes ] [ The Future ][/FONT]

New World Order

And up another level:

[ US Government knew ] [ Dr David Kelly ] [ News Page ] [ REASONABLE DOUBT ] [ PRO-WAR PROTEST? ] [ What we know ] [ Wacky Theories ] [ New World Order ] [ 911 Events ] [ Contents ]



​

ROSEBUD

 

[kvetch]

from today's israeli press: re the settlement expansion and its context

Haaretz+ and Ynet (but not Yedioth) reported on the punitive measures the Israeli government is considering taking against the Palestinian Authority if it goes ahead with its statehood bid at the UN. Haaretz wrote Israel may expand settlement construction, while the Reuters article on Ynet said Israel may cancel the Paris Protocol, a key economic accord it maintains with the cash-strapped Palestinian Authority, and it might also adopt portions of the controversial Levy Report, which recommended legalization of dozens of settler outposts.

Left-wing activists say it was no coincidence that Israel released tenders for 1,285 housing units across the Green Line on US Election Day. That way Israel could avoid criticism. The tenders were for homes in Pisgat Ze'ev, Ramot and Ariel, Haaretz+ and Ynet (but not Yedioth or Israel Hayom) reported.

and another touching story:

"**My life story gave me power," said 34-year-old Eyal Shiran, whose sister was killed in a terror attack on a Haifa restaurant. His father died years later from his injuries. Shiran has decided to run for a spot on the left-wing Meretz party list, Yedioth reported. "[People] always said that if something happend to my family I would see things differently. And then, in one moment, I'm in that situation. And I tell myself while driving (to the hospital), 'This is your moment of truth, Eyal,' did your perspective on life collapse now?' And it did not. The opposite is true. It only strengthened me."

I get a daily digest sent direct to my email inbox called NEWS NOSH

The above is an extract from today's bulletin; comes around 08: 30 New York time.

It comes from the USA branch of "Peace Now" and is free on request....no charge

highly recommended

also I set up a daily google alert just for "israel" also free

that dredges up all sorts from the extreme right wing Pamela Geller (Atlas Shrugs) to Ha'aretz

again, a valuable and easy way to keep in touch with the Eretz Yisrael scene

 

[kvetch]

Information can be manipulated, which is why real historians reject them:

"We all abhor, on both moral and scholarly grounds, the substantive arguments of the Institute for Historical Review. We reject their claims to be taken seriously as historians."

Journal of American History, Vol 80, No. 3, p. 1213.

In April 2004, following a complaint by the David S. Wyman Institute for Holocaust Studies, The Nation magazine refused to accept advertising from the IHR, stating:

"[T]here is a strong presumption against censoring any advertisement, especially if we disagree with its politics. This case, however, is different. Their arguments are 'patently fraudulent.'"

I wish I had your IT computer skills, Y-Kl

I'm an IT Klutz

So happy about Obama's election victory that no shit left to throw at you or anyone!!

Also not been to bed yet!

Anyway I am a pan-zionist now not an anti-zionist and a jew lover not a self hater....I

i re-signed, literally

thanx to this board and Rosie in particular...toda raba all round

shalom!

 

[toomuchtime_]

Israel moves ahead construction of 1,200 settler homes ahead of Palestinian UN statehood bid - The Washington Post

Neten yahoo is up shit creek big time

His reckless gambling has backfired spectacularly

He lost his bet on Romney and faces sweet revenge from Obama, who can now put the evil AIPAC in its place and regain control of US foreign policy from the Israel lobby

His bet on Likud / Liebemann also looks very very dodgy and even more dangerous to Israel

Abbas has outflanked him at the UN and on Israeli TV, too

So back to theft...that's all he really knows how to do

What effect do you all think the re election of Obama will have on Israel and the Palestinians?

None. In his first two years when his party controlled both houses of Congress, Obama tried and failed to prevent Netanyahu from becoming PM. He tried to bring down the Netanyahu government and failed. He tried to coerce Netanyahu into accepting a building freeze and the 1948 ceasefire line as pre conditions for negotiations and failed. Each time Netanyahu stood up to Obama's attempts to bully him, Netanyahu's approval ratings in both Israel and the US improved. At this point in his presidency, Obama has earned the distrust of the Israelis and the contempt of the Palestinian Arabs. It is hard to imagine what he can do to change that.

There are two political realities that will severely limit Obama's ability to take a hard line with Israel vis a vis the Palestinian Arabs. The first is that polls consistently show Americans, not just Jewish Americans or evangelical Christians, overwhelmingly support Israel over the Palestinian Arabs. While Obama will not have to run for office again, in two years we will have Congressional elections and candidates from both parties will again overwhelmingly support Israel over the Palestinian Arabs because they know their constituents do. It will not help Obama advance his other agenda items to antagonize members of his own party in Congress by taking a hard line with Israel that their constituents do not support.

Israel/Palestinians

Second, Republicans overwhelmingly support Israel over the Palestinian Arabs and Republicans control the House of Representatives. If Obama hopes to make any progress on domestic issues that will be critical to the welfare of America, such as repairing flaws in Obamacare and avoiding the fiscal cliff, he will have to be more accommodating to Republicans and starting a fight with them over Israel would be counterproductive for him. For these reasons it is likely the issues between Israel and the Palestinian Arabs will be put on a back shelf for the next four years.

A more interesting question is what effect will Obama's reelection have on Israel's policy toward Iran? We now know that Netanyahu and Barak have been ready to order a strike against Iran's nuclear weapons program since 2010, but have been unable to rally sufficient support for the attack in the cabinet because too many members of the government wanted to wait to see if the US could get Iran to end their nuclear weapons program first. If you recall, Obama was initially reluctant to order strong sanctions against Iran until Congress forced him to, and it has never been clear if he actually changed his mind about trying to force Iran to end its program or if he simply found it politically expedient to take a harder line on Iran in anticipation of this election. If the latter is true, and Obama now tries to back off from forcing Iran to abandon its nuclear weapons program, it is more likely that Netanyahu will be able to rally sufficient support in the cabinet to order an Israeli strike against Iran's nuclear program.

 

[kvetch]

Israel moves ahead construction of 1,200 settler homes ahead of Palestinian UN statehood bid - The Washington Post

Neten yahoo is up shit creek big time

His reckless gambling has backfired spectacularly

He lost his bet on Romney and faces sweet revenge from Obama, who can now put the evil AIPAC in its place and regain control of US foreign policy from the Israel lobby

His bet on Likud / Liebemann also looks very very dodgy and even more dangerous to Israel

Abbas has outflanked him at the UN and on Israeli TV, too

So back to theft...that's all he really knows how to do

What effect do you all think the re election of Obama will have on Israel and the Palestinians?

None. In his first two years when his party controlled both houses of Congress, Obama tried and failed to prevent Netanyahu from becoming PM. He tried to bring down the Netanyahu government and failed. He tried to coerce Netanyahu into accepting a building freeze and the 1948 ceasefire line as pre conditions for negotiations and failed. Each time Netanyahu stood up to Obama's attempts to bully him, Netanyahu's approval ratings in both Israel and the US improved. At this point in his presidency, Obama has earned the distrust of the Israelis and the contempt of the Palestinian Arabs. It is hard to imagine what he can do to change that.

There are two political realities that will severely limit Obama's ability to take a hard line with Israel vis a vis the Palestinian Arabs. The first is that polls consistently show Americans, not just Jewish Americans or evangelical Christians, overwhelmingly support Israel over the Palestinian Arabs. While Obama will not have to run for office again, in two years we will have Congressional elections and candidates from both parties will again overwhelmingly support Israel over the Palestinian Arabs because they know their constituents do. It will not help Obama advance his other agenda items to antagonize members of his own party in Congress by taking a hard line with Israel that their constituents do not support.

Israel/Palestinians

Second, Republicans overwhelmingly support Israel over the Palestinian Arabs and Republicans control the House of Representatives. If Obama hopes to make any progress on domestic issues that will be critical to the welfare of America, such as repairing flaws in Obamacare and avoiding the fiscal cliff, he will have to be more accommodating to Republicans and starting a fight with them over Israel would be counterproductive for him. For these reasons it is likely the issues between Israel and the Palestinian Arabs will be put on a back shelf for the next four years.

A more interesting question is what effect will Obama's reelection have on Israel's policy toward Iran? We now know that Netanyahu and Barak have been ready to order a strike against Iran's nuclear weapons program since 2010, but have been unable to rally sufficient support for the attack in the cabinet because too many members of the government wanted to wait to see if the US could get Iran to end their nuclear weapons program first. If you recall, Obama was initially reluctant to order strong sanctions against Iran until Congress forced him to, and it has never been clear if he actually changed his mind about trying to force Iran to end its program or if he simply found it politically expedient to take a harder line on Iran in anticipation of this election. If the latter is true, and Obama now tries to back off from forcing Iran to abandon its nuclear weapons program, it is more likely that Netanyahu will be able to rally sufficient support in the cabinet to order an Israeli strike against Iran's nuclear program.

maybe you are right....very clear and lucid post

but israel alone just can't do more than stirring up a hornets nest, and spiking the price of oil

USA people will NOT support that, whatever their putative views on israel are

even israelis themselves want USA to do it for them but USA has no appetite for another war

Romneys neocon team would have been different

n.yahoo / beitenu is a true faustian pact.................deadly

 

[irosie91]

sit tight Kvetch------nice of you to underplay the machinations of the ARAB SPRING---------in a few months the only path that BOTH the US and ISRAEL will be able to follow -------is that wreckage of the ONGOING PROGRAM OF PERVERSITY--------and respond to it

 

[sealadaigh]

irreparable for israel...
no matter what obama does.

i think it's too early to say that!!

i think it will alter the perception of the strength of the jewish voting bloc.

 

[YKohen]

From a Democrat who supported Obama, the son of an Episcopal priest and a professor of Humanities at Bard College:

The New Israel And The Old: Why Gentile Americans Back The Jewish State

... A Gallup poll in June 1948 showed that almost three times as many Americans "sympathized with the Jews" as "sympathized with the Arabs." That support was no flash in the pan. Widespread gentile support for Israel is one of the most potent political forces in U.S. foreign policy, and in the last 60 years, there has never been a Gallup poll showing more Americans sympathizing with the Arabs or the Palestinians than with the Israelis.

Over time, moreover, the pro-Israel sentiment in the United States has increased, especially among non-Jews. The years of the George W. Bush administration have seen support for Israel in U.S. public opinion reach the highest level ever, and it has remained there throughout Bush's two terms. The increase has occurred even as the demographic importance of Jews has diminished. In 1948, Jews constituted an estimated 3.8 percent of the U.S. population. Assuming that almost every American Jew favored a pro-Israel foreign policy that year, a little more than ten percent of U.S. supporters of Israel were of Jewish origin. By 2007, Jews were only 1.8 percent of the population of the United States, accounting at most for three percent of Israel's supporters in the United States.

These figures, dramatic as they are, also probably underestimate the true level of public support for Israel. When in a poll in 2006 the Pew Research Center asked whether U.S. policy in the Middle East was fair, favored Israel, or favored the Palestinians, 47 percent of the respondents said they thought the policy was fair, six percent said it favored the Palestinians, and only 27 percent thought it favored the Israelis. The poll was conducted during Israel's attacks against Hezbollah in southern Lebanon, when U.S. support for Israel was even more controversial than usual around the world. One must therefore conclude that many of those who tell pollsters that the United States' policies are fair to both sides actually favor policies that most non-U.S. observers would consider strongly and even irresponsibly pro-Israel...

 

[toomuchtime_]

Israel moves ahead construction of 1,200 settler homes ahead of Palestinian UN statehood bid - The Washington Post

Neten yahoo is up shit creek big time

His reckless gambling has backfired spectacularly

He lost his bet on Romney and faces sweet revenge from Obama, who can now put the evil AIPAC in its place and regain control of US foreign policy from the Israel lobby

His bet on Likud / Liebemann also looks very very dodgy and even more dangerous to Israel

Abbas has outflanked him at the UN and on Israeli TV, too

So back to theft...that's all he really knows how to do

What effect do you all think the re election of Obama will have on Israel and the Palestinians?

None. In his first two years when his party controlled both houses of Congress, Obama tried and failed to prevent Netanyahu from becoming PM. He tried to bring down the Netanyahu government and failed. He tried to coerce Netanyahu into accepting a building freeze and the 1948 ceasefire line as pre conditions for negotiations and failed. Each time Netanyahu stood up to Obama's attempts to bully him, Netanyahu's approval ratings in both Israel and the US improved. At this point in his presidency, Obama has earned the distrust of the Israelis and the contempt of the Palestinian Arabs. It is hard to imagine what he can do to change that.

There are two political realities that will severely limit Obama's ability to take a hard line with Israel vis a vis the Palestinian Arabs. The first is that polls consistently show Americans, not just Jewish Americans or evangelical Christians, overwhelmingly support Israel over the Palestinian Arabs. While Obama will not have to run for office again, in two years we will have Congressional elections and candidates from both parties will again overwhelmingly support Israel over the Palestinian Arabs because they know their constituents do. It will not help Obama advance his other agenda items to antagonize members of his own party in Congress by taking a hard line with Israel that their constituents do not support.

Israel/Palestinians

Second, Republicans overwhelmingly support Israel over the Palestinian Arabs and Republicans control the House of Representatives. If Obama hopes to make any progress on domestic issues that will be critical to the welfare of America, such as repairing flaws in Obamacare and avoiding the fiscal cliff, he will have to be more accommodating to Republicans and starting a fight with them over Israel would be counterproductive for him. For these reasons it is likely the issues between Israel and the Palestinian Arabs will be put on a back shelf for the next four years.

A more interesting question is what effect will Obama's reelection have on Israel's policy toward Iran? We now know that Netanyahu and Barak have been ready to order a strike against Iran's nuclear weapons program since 2010, but have been unable to rally sufficient support for the attack in the cabinet because too many members of the government wanted to wait to see if the US could get Iran to end their nuclear weapons program first. If you recall, Obama was initially reluctant to order strong sanctions against Iran until Congress forced him to, and it has never been clear if he actually changed his mind about trying to force Iran to end its program or if he simply found it politically expedient to take a harder line on Iran in anticipation of this election. If the latter is true, and Obama now tries to back off from forcing Iran to abandon its nuclear weapons program, it is more likely that Netanyahu will be able to rally sufficient support in the cabinet to order an Israeli strike against Iran's nuclear program.

maybe you are right....very clear and lucid post

but israel alone just can't do more than stirring up a hornets nest, and spiking the price of oil

USA people will NOT support that, whatever their putative views on israel are

even israelis themselves want USA to do it for them but USA has no appetite for another war

Romneys neocon team would have been different

n.yahoo / beitenu is a true faustian pact.................deadly

Israel can set back Iran's nuclear weapons program by at least a few years, and if necessary, strike Iran again in a few years and so on. It is a terrible thing to contemplate, but better for the Israelis, the region and the whole world than allowing Iran to acquire nuclear weapons.

Some argue that the situation in Iran is different from the situation that existed in Iraq before Israel struck its Osirak reactor, but the same arguments against a strike today were made in 1981 and by some of the same people. People like Shimon Peres argued that an Israeli strike against the Osirak reactor would have disastrous consequences for Israel. He claimed the Arabs would all be enraged by the strike, that the international community would condemn and berate Israel for it and that, in any case, Saddam Hussein was so determined to have nuclear weapons that an Israeli strike could only delay him by a few years at most. The Begin government ordered the strike anyway.

The international community, including the US, did condemn and berate the Begin government for the strike and Saddam Hussein did almost immediately begin a new nuclear weapons program that would be much harder for Israel to attack, but the cost of making his new program safe from almost certain Israeli attacks proved to be more than Iraq could afford, and as we now know he soon dropped the program, which was fortunate not only for Israel but also for US troops and the Gulf Arab states during the first Gulf War and, of course, fortunate for Iran.

America's military capability with respect to Iran is irrelevant since no one believes Obama would use military force to stop Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons. The purpose of Netanyahu's exercise in demanding Obama set red lines was not to interfere in US elections but to convince Israelis that Obama would not use military force to stop Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons and since sanctions alone have had no effect on Iran's nuclear program, Israel has no choice but to use military force to stop Iran from acquiring nukes. Obama's refusal to set red lines was large part of the reason for calling early elections since Netanyahu will need a newer, stronger mandate in order to win support for a strike against Iran's nuclear weapons program. The recent publicized war games which concluded that an Israeli strike now would set Iran's nuclear program back by at least three years while causing Israel to suffer only light retaliation from Iran and its Hamas and Hezbollah proxies was another step in the effort to win Israeli support support for a strike.

Netanyahu is working hard to wean Israelis from a sense of dependence on the US that grew to unprecedented levels under the Clinton administration.