Israel And The “De-legitimization” Oxymoron

[P F Tinmore]

Tinmore, how many hundreds of times do you need to be told---THERE AIN'T NO PALESTINE ? Never was, never will be.

Hmmm, seems like it was still there in 1949. Still had a border with Lebanon too.

When did that change?

Where the existing truce lines run along the international boundary between Syria and Palestine, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall follow the boundary line

The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949

Palestine still has a border with Syria too.

(d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the southernmost tip of Palestine,...

The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949

Holy disinformation, Batman, Israel calls that territory Israel.

 

[Billo_Really]

The question is: How can you de-legitimize something (in this case the Zionist state) which it is NOT legitimate?

The truth of the time was that Israel, which came into being mainly as a consequence of Zionist terrorism and pre-planned ethnic cleansing, had no right to exist and, more to the point, could have no right to exist unless ….. Unless it was recognised and legitimized by those who were dispossessed of their land and their rights during the creation of the Zionist state. In international law only the Palestinians could give Israel the legitimacy it craved.

As it was put to me many years ago by Khalad al-Hassan, Fatah’s intellectual giant on the right, that legitimacy was “the only thing the Zionists could not take from us by force.”

The truth of history as summarised briefly above is the explanation of why, really, Zionism has always insisted that its absolute pre-condition for negotiations with more than a snowball’s chance in hell of a successful outcome (an acceptable measure of justice for the Palestinians and peace for all) is recognition of Israel’s right to exist. A right, it knows, it does not have and will never have unless the Palestinians grant it.

Israel And The

The Balfour Declaration legitimized the state of Israel. That's the law. I don't care for zionists, but there's nothing anyone can do about it now. Israel exists. They are there. All this talk about a "right to exist" is a bunch of bullshit. They exist. Not only do they have a legal right to exist, there isn't any country in the ME with the ability to change it. It is what it is and we need to move on to other issues.

Like getting the Palestinian's their own state to exist in. And all you Israeli kiss-asses who don't like that idea, go fuck yourself! You're a bunch of war-mongering pricks who are completely void of ethics and morality. You have no respect for the law and no respect for humanity. The problem with you people is you've been watching too much Walker, Texas Ranger.

 

[Lipush]

The question is: How can you de-legitimize something (in this case the Zionist state) which it is NOT legitimate?

The truth of the time was that Israel, which came into being mainly as a consequence of Zionist terrorism and pre-planned ethnic cleansing, had no right to exist and, more to the point, could have no right to exist unless ….. Unless it was recognised and legitimized by those who were dispossessed of their land and their rights during the creation of the Zionist state. In international law only the Palestinians could give Israel the legitimacy it craved.

As it was put to me many years ago by Khalad al-Hassan, Fatah’s intellectual giant on the right, that legitimacy was “the only thing the Zionists could not take from us by force.”

The truth of history as summarised briefly above is the explanation of why, really, Zionism has always insisted that its absolute pre-condition for negotiations with more than a snowball’s chance in hell of a successful outcome (an acceptable measure of justice for the Palestinians and peace for all) is recognition of Israel’s right to exist. A right, it knows, it does not have and will never have unless the Palestinians grant it.

Israel And The

The Balfour Declaration legitimized the state of Israel. That's the law. I don't care for zionists, but there's nothing anyone can do about it now. Israel exists. They are there. All this talk about a "right to exist" is a bunch of bullshit. They exist. Not only do they have a legal right to exist, there isn't any country in the ME with the ability to change it. It is what it is and we need to move on to other issues.

Like getting the Palestinian's their own state to exist in. And all you Israeli kiss-asses who don't like that idea, go fuck yourself! You're a bunch of war-mongering pricks who are completely void of ethics and morality. You have no respect for the law and no respect for humanity. The problem with you people is you've been watching too much Walker, Texas Ranger.

you nailed it!

 

[P F Tinmore]

The question is: How can you de-legitimize something (in this case the Zionist state) which it is NOT legitimate?

The truth of the time was that Israel, which came into being mainly as a consequence of Zionist terrorism and pre-planned ethnic cleansing, had no right to exist and, more to the point, could have no right to exist unless ….. Unless it was recognised and legitimized by those who were dispossessed of their land and their rights during the creation of the Zionist state. In international law only the Palestinians could give Israel the legitimacy it craved.

As it was put to me many years ago by Khalad al-Hassan, Fatah’s intellectual giant on the right, that legitimacy was “the only thing the Zionists could not take from us by force.”

The truth of history as summarised briefly above is the explanation of why, really, Zionism has always insisted that its absolute pre-condition for negotiations with more than a snowball’s chance in hell of a successful outcome (an acceptable measure of justice for the Palestinians and peace for all) is recognition of Israel’s right to exist. A right, it knows, it does not have and will never have unless the Palestinians grant it.

Israel And The

The Balfour Declaration legitimized the state of Israel. That's the law. I don't care for zionists, but there's nothing anyone can do about it now. Israel exists. They are there. All this talk about a "right to exist" is a bunch of bullshit. They exist. Not only do they have a legal right to exist, there isn't any country in the ME with the ability to change it. It is what it is and we need to move on to other issues.

Like getting the Palestinian's their own state to exist in. And all you Israeli kiss-asses who don't like that idea, go fuck yourself! You're a bunch of war-mongering pricks who are completely void of ethics and morality. You have no respect for the law and no respect for humanity. The problem with you people is you've been watching too much Walker, Texas Ranger.

The Balfour Declaration legitimized the state of Israel.

That is an interesting conclusion to draw considering that when the Balfour declaration was written Palestine (It is also interesting that it was called Palestine.) was still under Ottoman rule. Britain had no legal standing to make that declaration.

 

[Billo_Really]

That is an interesting conclusion to draw considering that when the Balfour declaration was written Palestine (It is also interesting that it was called Palestine.) was still under Ottoman rule. Britain had no legal standing to make that declaration.

You missed it by one year.

In 1919, in the wake of World War I, England and France as Mandatory (e.g., official administrators and mentors) carved up the former Ottoman Empire, which had collapsed a year earlier, into geographic spheres of influence.

 

[Lipush]

The question is: How can you de-legitimize something (in this case the Zionist state) which it is NOT legitimate?

The truth of the time was that Israel, which came into being mainly as a consequence of Zionist terrorism and pre-planned ethnic cleansing, had no right to exist and, more to the point, could have no right to exist unless ….. Unless it was recognised and legitimized by those who were dispossessed of their land and their rights during the creation of the Zionist state. In international law only the Palestinians could give Israel the legitimacy it craved.

As it was put to me many years ago by Khalad al-Hassan, Fatah’s intellectual giant on the right, that legitimacy was “the only thing the Zionists could not take from us by force.”

The truth of history as summarised briefly above is the explanation of why, really, Zionism has always insisted that its absolute pre-condition for negotiations with more than a snowball’s chance in hell of a successful outcome (an acceptable measure of justice for the Palestinians and peace for all) is recognition of Israel’s right to exist. A right, it knows, it does not have and will never have unless the Palestinians grant it.

Israel And The

The Balfour Declaration legitimized the state of Israel. That's the law. I don't care for zionists, but there's nothing anyone can do about it now. Israel exists. They are there. All this talk about a "right to exist" is a bunch of bullshit. They exist. Not only do they have a legal right to exist, there isn't any country in the ME with the ability to change it. It is what it is and we need to move on to other issues.

Like getting the Palestinian's their own state to exist in. And all you Israeli kiss-asses who don't like that idea, go fuck yourself! You're a bunch of war-mongering pricks who are completely void of ethics and morality. You have no respect for the law and no respect for humanity. The problem with you people is you've been watching too much Walker, Texas Ranger.

The Balfour Declaration legitimized the state of Israel.

That is an interesting conclusion to draw considering that when the Balfour declaration was written Palestine (It is also interesting that it was called Palestine.) was still under Ottoman rule. Britain had no legal standing to make that declaration.

So what if it was called "Palestine"? the word "Plishti" is rooted in Hebrew, the Palestinian people are not philisitines, though.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Balfour Declaration legitimized the state of Israel. That's the law. I don't care for zionists, but there's nothing anyone can do about it now. Israel exists. They are there. All this talk about a "right to exist" is a bunch of bullshit. They exist. Not only do they have a legal right to exist, there isn't any country in the ME with the ability to change it. It is what it is and we need to move on to other issues.

Like getting the Palestinian's their own state to exist in. And all you Israeli kiss-asses who don't like that idea, go fuck yourself! You're a bunch of war-mongering pricks who are completely void of ethics and morality. You have no respect for the law and no respect for humanity. The problem with you people is you've been watching too much Walker, Texas Ranger.

The Balfour Declaration legitimized the state of Israel.

That is an interesting conclusion to draw considering that when the Balfour declaration was written Palestine (It is also interesting that it was called Palestine.) was still under Ottoman rule. Britain had no legal standing to make that declaration.

So what if it was called "Palestine"? the word "Plishti" is rooted in Hebrew, the Palestinian people are not philisitines, though.

So? Is there any relevance here?

 

[Lipush]

That is an interesting conclusion to draw considering that when the Balfour declaration was written Palestine (It is also interesting that it was called Palestine.) was still under Ottoman rule. Britain had no legal standing to make that declaration.

So what if it was called "Palestine"? the word "Plishti" is rooted in Hebrew, the Palestinian people are not philisitines, though.

So? Is there any relevance here?

Of course. Since the Palestinaians name themselves now upon a Roman mistake. it makes people believe that "Palestinians" are Philisitines who were here in times of the Israelite Kongdom, this is wrong.

Plishti means "invader" in hebrew, which makes me wonder why the Palestinians call themselves after a Hebrew word which means "invader"?

 

[P F Tinmore]

So what if it was called "Palestine"? the word "Plishti" is rooted in Hebrew, the Palestinian people are not philisitines, though.

So? Is there any relevance here?

Of course. Since the Palestinaians name themselves now upon a Roman mistake. it makes people believe that "Palestinians" are Philisitines who were here in times of the Israelite Kongdom, this is wrong.

Plishti means "invader" in hebrew, which makes me wonder why the Palestinians call themselves after a Hebrew word which means "invader"?

Did the Palestinians name themselves? The name of the place was Palestine while it was still under Ottoman rule. (See the Balfour declaration and other documents.) The place was called Palestine by the League of Nations when it defined its international borders in 1922. Palestine was the place of birth on their birth certificates.

They call themselves Palestinians for the same reason that people living in France call themselves French.

 

[Lipush]

So? Is there any relevance here?

Of course. Since the Palestinaians name themselves now upon a Roman mistake. it makes people believe that "Palestinians" are Philisitines who were here in times of the Israelite Kongdom, this is wrong.

Plishti means "invader" in hebrew, which makes me wonder why the Palestinians call themselves after a Hebrew word which means "invader"?

Did the Palestinians name themselves? The name of the place was Palestine while it was still under Ottoman rule. (See the Balfour declaration and other documents.) The place was called Palestine by the League of Nations when it defined its international borders in 1922. Palestine was the place of birth on their birth certificates.

They call themselves Palestinians for the same reason that people living in France call themselves French.

which makes my point for me, the Ottomans called this land Palestine, but this land was not Palestine to be called in, in the first place.

I can call myself American, that still does not mean I am one.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Of course. Since the Palestinaians name themselves now upon a Roman mistake. it makes people believe that "Palestinians" are Philisitines who were here in times of the Israelite Kongdom, this is wrong.

Plishti means "invader" in hebrew, which makes me wonder why the Palestinians call themselves after a Hebrew word which means "invader"?

Did the Palestinians name themselves? The name of the place was Palestine while it was still under Ottoman rule. (See the Balfour declaration and other documents.) The place was called Palestine by the League of Nations when it defined its international borders in 1922. Palestine was the place of birth on their birth certificates.

They call themselves Palestinians for the same reason that people living in France call themselves French.

which makes my point for me, the Ottomans called this land Palestine, but this land was not Palestine to be called in, in the first place.

I can call myself American, that still does not mean I am one.

A rose by by other name...

This is all just Israel's name game to justify stealing Palestinian land.

 

[Lipush]

Did the Palestinians name themselves? The name of the place was Palestine while it was still under Ottoman rule. (See the Balfour declaration and other documents.) The place was called Palestine by the League of Nations when it defined its international borders in 1922. Palestine was the place of birth on their birth certificates.

They call themselves Palestinians for the same reason that people living in France call themselves French.

which makes my point for me, the Ottomans called this land Palestine, but this land was not Palestine to be called in, in the first place.

I can call myself American, that still does not mean I am one.

A rose by by other name...

This is all just Israel's name game to justify stealing Palestinian land.

There is a hebrew saying "Gonev Meganav Patur".

which to this matter mean, you don't steal something that was yours to start with.

 

[P F Tinmore]

which makes my point for me, the Ottomans called this land Palestine, but this land was not Palestine to be called in, in the first place.

I can call myself American, that still does not mean I am one.

A rose by by other name...

This is all just Israel's name game to justify stealing Palestinian land.

There is a hebrew saying "Gonev Meganav Patur".

which to this matter mean, you don't steal something that was yours to start with.

Can you document that?

 

[Lipush]

A rose by by other name...

This is all just Israel's name game to justify stealing Palestinian land.

There is a hebrew saying "Gonev Meganav Patur".

which to this matter mean, you don't steal something that was yours to start with.

Can you document that?

 

[P F Tinmore]

There is a hebrew saying "Gonev Meganav Patur".

which to this matter mean, you don't steal something that was yours to start with.

Can you document that?

 

[JStone]

Exodus 34:27 Then the LORD said to Moses, “Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.”

John 12:13 They took palm branches and went out to meet him, shouting, “Hosanna! “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! “Blessed is the king of Israel!”

John 1:49 Then Nathanael declared, "Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the King of Israel."

Eminent Middle East Historian Dr. Bernard Lewis, Professor Emeritus of Near Eastern Studies at Princeton University, Author, "The Middle East: A Brief History of the Last 2000 Years," "The Future of the Middle East," "The Shaping of the Modern Middle East," "The End of Modern History in the Middle East," Faith and Power: Religion and Politics in the Middle East"

The adjective Palestinian is comparatively new. This, I need hardly remind you, is a region of ancient civilization and of deep-rooted and often complex identitites. But, Palestine was not one of them. People might identify themselves for various purposes, by religion, by descent, or by allegiance to a particular state or ruler, or, sometimes, locality. But, when they did it locally it was generally either the city and the immediate district or the larger province, so they would have been Jerusalemites or Jaffaites or Syrians, identifying with the larger province of Syria

The constitution or the formation of a political entity called Palestine which eventually gave rise to a nationality called Palestinian were lasting innovations of the British Mandate [1922-1948]

The countries forming the western arm of the Fertile Crescent were called by the names of the various kingdoms and peoples that ruled and inhabited them. Of these, the most familiar, or at least the best documented, are the southern lands, known in the earlier books of the Hebrew Bible and some other ancient writings as Canaan. After the Israelite conquest and settlement, the area inhabited by them came to be described as "land of the children of Israel" or simply "land of Israel" After the breakup of the kingdom of David and Solomon in the tenth century BCE, the southern part, with Jerusalem as its capital, was called Judah, while the north was called Israel

It is by now commonplace that the civilizations of the Middle East are oldest known to human history. They go back thousands of years, much older than the civilizations of India and China, not to speak of other upstart places. It is also interesting, though now often forgotten, that the ancient civilizations of the Middle East were almost totally obliterated and forgotten by their own people as well as by others. Their monuments were defaced or destroyed, their languages forgotten, their scripts forgotten, their history forgotten and even their identities forgotten.

All that was known about them came from one single source, and that is Israel, the only component of the ancient Middle East to have retained their identity, their memory, their language and their books. For a very long time, up to comparatively modern times, with rare exceptions all that was known about the ancient Middle East--the Babylonians, the Egyptians and the rest--was what the Jewish tradiiton has preserved.
Amazon.com: Political Words and Ideas in Islam (9781558764248): Bernard Lewis: Books

 

[JStone]

PBS: Civilization and the Jews

The interaction of Jewish history and Western civilization successively assumed different forms. In the Biblical and Ancient periods, Israel was an integral part of the Near Eastern and classical world, which gave birth to Western civilization. It shared the traditions of ancient Mesopotamia and the rest of that world with regard to it’s own beginning; it benefited from the decline of Egypt and the other great Near Eastern empires to emerge as a nation in it’s own right; it asserted it’s claim to the divinely promised Land of Israel
PBS - Heritage

Harvard University Semitic Museum: The Houses of Ancient Israel The Houses of Ancient Israel § Semitic Museum

In archaeological terms The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine focuses on the Iron Age (1200-586 B.C.E.). Iron I (1200-1000 B.C.E.) represents the premonarchical period. Iron II (1000-586 B.C.E.) was the time of kings. Uniting the tribal coalitions of Israel and Judah in the tenth century B.C.E., David and Solomon ruled over an expanding realm. After Solomon's death (c. 930 B.C.E.) Israel and Judah separated into two kingdoms.
Israel was led at times by strong kings, Omri and Ahab in the ninth century B.C.E. and Jereboam II in the eighth.

Harvard University Semitic Museum: Jerusalem During The Reign Of King Hezekiah--New Exhibition At The Semitic Museum Re-Creates Numerous Aspects Of Ancient Israel Harvard Gazette: Jerusalem during the reign of King Hezekiah

The Semitic Museum has installed a new exhibition that brings the world of biblical Israel into vivid, three-dimensional reality. "The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine" immerses the viewer in Israelite daily life around the time of King Hezekiah (8th century B.C.), creating an experiential environment based on the latest archaeological, textual, and historical research.


The centerpiece of the exhibition is a full-scale Israelite house, open on one side, filled with authentic ancient artifacts that show how life was lived by common inhabitants of ancient Jerusalem. Agricultural tools, a cooking area, and a stall occupied by a single, scruffy ram fill the ground floor of the cube-shaped, mud-brick structure, which, thankfully, is not olfactorily authentic. The upper story, reached by a ladder, is devoted to eating and sleeping.