Islam Intimidates The U.S.A.

[Charles_Main]

WE do not have any right to decide where that mosque is located.

Or have you suddenly become a collectivist?

Nope but we do have the right to loudly announce our opposition and feelings about where they want to put it.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Clearly satire is above your reasoning ability. You think my ridiculous exaggeration is off topic and delusional?! Do you not see how absolutely absurd it is to believe America should wage war on an entire religion? Not criminals, not law-breakers, but everyone in a religion regardless of their actions, solely on the basis of their religious beliefs, in contradistinction to the first amendment. The very whisper of the idea reeks of stupidity. Yet somehow you don't see the thing I responded to as "imaginary" and "delusional", but satirical extension of those inane ideas are clearly bad.

I can't tell whether you were just incapable of following the flow of the conversation, unable to understand satirical responses, or just an extremist loon like the person who recommended we wipe Islam from the Earth.

It is absurd to wage war with a religion, but it makes sense to wage war with terror?

Islam is not a religion, it is a political philosophy that believes that religious law and subservience to Allah is required of everyone on the planet. The ridicullous claim that Islam is a religion of peace ignores that the requirement for that peace is spelled out in out in Sharia law.

Dhimmitude is price of peace with Islam, and only Christians and Jews are eligible for it. Everyone else is to be put to death, period. Even Christians and Jews are second class citizens under Sharia law, and are required to understand that they live only because of the graciousness of Allah.

If you think that is peaceful, feel free to move to a country that practices Sharia law. While there, be sure to brag that you are smarter than any Muslim because you know that there are no gods. Just do not expect me to come rescue you when they chop off your head. As a matter of fact, do not even expect me to care, the world will be better off without people that do not understand the difference between a religion and a political philosophy.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Islam isn't just a religion, dumbshit. In that it differs from all other religions, and we sure as shit can wage war against it.

Actually that's exactly what it is, similar to all other religions, very closely paralleling Christianity's past. Islam is a belief. You cannot fight a belief, no matter how hard you try. You can fight criminals, people who are ethically corrupt, or people who cause other unjust acts. But you cannot wage war against a belief.

This religion is no different than yours. You just think all the bad things that are propagated by Christians somehow "don't count", while the bad things you hear about from Islam are representative of the whole.

Here's an easy test: if you think Islam is not just a religion, then please enlighten me and describe what it is, specifically outlining aspects that it does not share with Christianity.

2. More and more *Real Americans* are sick of islam, what it does, and what it fails to do.

unsupported speculation

3. I would say 35% don't want anything to do with islam, and want it *GONE* from America.

completely fabricated statistic

4. As that grows, and it will, the tide will turn, and so with the *Laws of the Land*.

unsupported speculation

 

[chanel]

Link please.

 

[DiveCon]

I agree, which is why I took that part of the statement out.

My point is that we don't support the mosque because we're afraid of the consequences.

if Islam didnt have a history of building mosques on places of victories, this likely wouldnt even be an issue

If they wanted to build a mosque on top of the pile of rubble, then it would be an issue. An old Burlington Coat Factory building? Not quite.


Also, I've heard that a bunch of times, yet I've never seen a credible source saying that it's true.

(Similar to the "Obama is an apostate" Op-Ed in the Times that's still constantly quoted, even though they printed a retraction the following day)

yeah, a building that was damaged on 9/11, doesnt count

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The people who fear Islam are the people who don't want the mosque built. Not the people in favor of it.

thats not true
while some may, there are many that dont

You're right, I'll rephrase it.

The people who support the mosque being built (like myself) are not the ones who fear Islam.

Wrong again.

There are people on both sides of the issue who fear Islam. Some of those who fear Islam support the mosque because they are afraid of the violent response alluded to my Rauf. (I would put Rauf himself in that category.) There are others who fear Islam who support the mosque because they are afraid of looking like cowards. Then there are those who do not fear Islam, and who do not support the mosque, because they oppose all symbols of religion every where.

Making generalizations like you insist on here is the sign of a person who does not consider all the possibilities. I try to avoid them in political debates because the motives of people are complex, and I always end up wrong when I use them. If you truly want to be reasonable you need to acknowledge that, simply because someone does not see things the same way you do, that does not mean they are afraid. Nor is everyone who agrees with you automatically not afraid.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

if Islam didnt have a history of building mosques on places of victories, this likely wouldnt even be an issue

If they wanted to build a mosque on top of the pile of rubble, then it would be an issue. An old Burlington Coat Factory building? Not quite.


Also, I've heard that a bunch of times, yet I've never seen a credible source saying that it's true.

(Similar to the "Obama is an apostate" Op-Ed in the Times that's still constantly quoted, even though they printed a retraction the following day)

yeah, a building that was damaged on 9/11, doesnt count

My parent's house, in Brooklyn - at least 2 or 3 miles away - was struck by debris from the WTC.


But that's really beside the point. People are welcome to disagree with the location of mosque as much as they want. Just like I am welcome to disagree with them.

The major problem I have is with people like chesswarsnow, or Mr. Fitnah - believers in the supposed worldwide Muslim conspiracy to take over the world.

I heard one person on this board say that they oppose the mosque because "the muslins" would use that location to "shoot down" the new Freedom Tower. That's the type of mindset that I'm talking about.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

thats not true
while some may, there are many that dont

You're right, I'll rephrase it.

The people who support the mosque being built (like myself) are not the ones who fear Islam.

Wrong again.

There are people on both sides of the issue who fear Islam. Some of those who fear Islam support the mosque because they are afraid of the violent response alluded to my Rauf. (I would put Rauf himself in that category.) There are others who fear Islam who support the mosque because they are afraid of looking like cowards. Then there are those who do not fear Islam, and who do not support the mosque, because they oppose all symbols of religion every where.

Making generalizations like you insist on here is the sign of a person who does not consider all the possibilities. I try to avoid them in political debates because the motives of people are complex, and I always end up wrong when I use them. If you truly want to be reasonable you need to acknowledge that, simply because someone does not see things the same way you do, that does not mean they are afraid.

It is certainly possible that some people who support the mosque do so because they're afraid of attacks if the mosque isn't build. But I don't know of any, and I know a whole lot of people who are involved with the pro-mosque rallies, etc.

I do know quite a few people who are against the mosque because "the muslins" will use the location to "shoot down the freedom tower".

 

[Mr Natural]

Those crazy Moslems sure know how to push our buttons, don't they?

 

[Ravi]

Those crazy Moslems sure know how to push our buttons, don't they?

I don't think it is them this time...rather it is the GOP and the rightwing media.

This is an election year, after all.

 

[kyzr]

........ People are welcome to disagree with the location of mosque as much as they want. Just like I am welcome to disagree with them.

The major problem I have is with people like chesswarsnow, or Mr. Fitnah - believers in the supposed worldwide Muslim conspiracy to take over the world.

I heard one person on this board say that they oppose the mosque because "the muslins" would use that location to "shoot down" the new Freedom Tower. That's the type of mindset that I'm talking about.

Please describe the "major problem" you have with the "supposed" muslim conspiracy, especially after witnessing the EU, and the "let us build the mosque where we want it OR ELSE...."
Please tell us why after the 1993 WTC bomb, then 9/11, why your denial of the obvious, muslims want to keep knocking down skyscrapers at the WTC site. How stupid is it to let the muslims have a tower next to the new Freedom Tower to potentially shoot RPGs at it?
The fuckng SNs should re-build the WTC at their expense for allowing islamic terrorists to terrorize civilized societies. I don't see any repentence from "islam" for the actions of their extremists. You would think that they would ensure that terrorism is eliminated from "islam", instead of celebrating terror attacks.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

........ People are welcome to disagree with the location of mosque as much as they want. Just like I am welcome to disagree with them.

The major problem I have is with people like chesswarsnow, or Mr. Fitnah - believers in the supposed worldwide Muslim conspiracy to take over the world.

I heard one person on this board say that they oppose the mosque because "the muslins" would use that location to "shoot down" the new Freedom Tower. That's the type of mindset that I'm talking about.

Please describe the "major problem" you have with the "supposed" muslim conspiracy, especially after witnessing the EU, and the "let us build the mosque where we want it OR ELSE...."
Please tell us why after the 1993 WTC bomb, then 9/11, why in your oblivious denial of the obvious, muslims want to keep knocking down skyscrapers at the WTC site. How stupid is it to let the muslims have a tower next to the new Freedom Tower to shoot RPGs at it?
The fuckng SNs should re-build the WTC at their expense for allowing islamic terrorists to terrorize civilized societies. I don't see any repentence from "islam" for the actions of their extremists. You would think that they would ensure that terrorism is eliminated from "islam", instead of celebrating terror attacks.

Thank you, I had forgotten who had made that retarded comment. Now I remember that it was you.

 

[kyzr]

You must be the pride of the 3rd grade. No skills, just name-calling. How's life on the short-bus?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

You must be the pride of the 3rd grade. No skills, just name-calling. How's life on the short-bus?

Never called you a name. But I'm certainly not going to debate Islam or the Park51 center, since you've obviously:

a.) Never met a Muslim
b.) Never been to New York
c.) Incredibly Islamophobic.

Have a nice day.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You're right, I'll rephrase it.

The people who support the mosque being built (like myself) are not the ones who fear Islam.

Wrong again.

There are people on both sides of the issue who fear Islam. Some of those who fear Islam support the mosque because they are afraid of the violent response alluded to my Rauf. (I would put Rauf himself in that category.) There are others who fear Islam who support the mosque because they are afraid of looking like cowards. Then there are those who do not fear Islam, and who do not support the mosque, because they oppose all symbols of religion every where.

Making generalizations like you insist on here is the sign of a person who does not consider all the possibilities. I try to avoid them in political debates because the motives of people are complex, and I always end up wrong when I use them. If you truly want to be reasonable you need to acknowledge that, simply because someone does not see things the same way you do, that does not mean they are afraid.

It is certainly possible that some people who support the mosque do so because they're afraid of attacks if the mosque isn't build. But I don't know of any, and I know a whole lot of people who are involved with the pro-mosque rallies, etc.

I do know quite a few people who are against the mosque because "the muslins" will use the location to "shoot down the freedom tower".

There are always idiots out there, wouldn't it be ironic if they were right?

 

[kyzr]

You must be the pride of the 3rd grade. No skills, just name-calling. How's life on the short-bus?

Never called you a name. But I'm certainly not going to debate Islam or the Park51 center, since you've obviously:

a.) Never met a Muslim
b.) Never been to New York
c.) Incredibly Islamophobic.

Have a nice day.

a.) Never met a Muslim
(I'm one of the guys who tells the hypocrites to shut the fuck up)

b.) Never been to New York
(wrong again)

c.) Incredibly Islamophobic.
(please explain why we go thru airport screenings, and there is a "no-fly" list

terror attacks on US interests
Chronology of Major Terrorist Attacks Against U.S. Targets - CDI Terrorism Project - Center for Defense Information

foiled terror attacks since 9/11
Foiled Terror Plots Against America Since 9/11 - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com

We all aren't as stupid or gullible as those who simply refuse to see reality. Y'all come back when you can discuss reality.)

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Nope but we do have the right to loudly announce our opposition and feelings about where they want to put it.

Sure. But nothing else past that, including but not limited to demanding laws are changed to prohibit it.

It is absurd to wage war with a religion, but it makes sense to wage war with terror?

The general idea I was getting at is that we should focus on taking down criminals, and not ideas. Don't quite know if that question was directed at me specifically or meant to be rhetorical.

Islam is not a religion, it is a political philosophy that believes that religious law and subservience to Allah is required of everyone on the planet.

Are you sure? I'm pretty sure it's a religion. Wikipedia appears to agree. So does the dictionary. Seeing as you just defined the "not-religion" on "religious law" and obedient to God, it appears like you do as well, in an odd self-contradiction.

Just do not expect me to come rescue you when they chop off your head. As a matter of fact, do not even expect me to care, the world will be better off without people that do not understand the difference between a religion and a political philosophy.

And retards. Texas had it right, let's just give them the chair! And other people we don't like! Cuz we think they're dumb! But sarcasm aside, what exactly do you see as the differences between religion and political philosophy? Just curious of your take on it.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The general idea I was getting at is that we should focus on taking down criminals, and not ideas. Don't quite know if that question was directed at me specifically or meant to be rhetorical.

What if the idea is that you need to be killed? That anyone who had a problem with that should be killed also? Would you have a problem with people taking down that idea, or would you be content to sit around believing that most people would not act on it.

Are you sure? I'm pretty sure it's a religion. Wikipedia appears to agree. So does the dictionary. Seeing as you just defined the "not-religion" on "religious law" and obedient to God, it appears like you do as well, in an odd self-contradiction.

Where did I contradict myself?

Islam teaches that all aspects of a persons life have to be surrendered to Allah. This belief extends to everyone, even people who do not follow their "religion." Can you point to any other religion that teaches that everyone, even non believers, are required to follow its precepts? (Don't try to point at individuals who believe this in the name of their religion, show me where it says so in the religious text itself.)

This make Islam more than a religion, as all theocracies have been. Religions are concerned only with a persons relationship with God, not their relationship with government.

And retards. Texas had it right, let's just give them the chair! And other people we don't like! Cuz we think they're dumb! But sarcasm aside, what exactly do you see as the differences between religion and political philosophy? Just curious of your take on it.

Religions do not want to kill you for not agreeing with them.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

What if the idea is that you need to be killed? That anyone who had a problem with that should be killed also? Would you have a problem with people taking down that idea, or would you be content to sit around believing that most people would not act on it.

If the idea involves killing people, then it's not just an idea anymore, it's an action. You're allowed to think whatever you want. It's why people don't go to jail for off-handed remarks such as "I could have killed my boss after he made me come in on the weekend!" Because it's just an idea, not a crime. When idea turns to criminal action, THEN you take down the person.

Islam teaches that all aspects of a persons life have to be surrendered to Allah. This belief extends to everyone, even people who do not follow their "religion." Can you point to any other religion that teaches that everyone, even non believers, are required to follow its precepts? (Don't try to point at individuals who believe this in the name of their religion, show me where it says so in the religious text itself.)

Interesting point. I'd ask you to point it out in the Qu'ran as well. But here's a list of bible quotes you will claim "don't count"

Exodus 22:20 "Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the LORD must be destroyed."

deut 13:13-16 "that wicked men have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods you have not known), then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. Destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock. 16 Gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the LORD your God. It is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt."

Wait wait wait. The BIBLE is saying that if people in the town worship other gods, the ENTIRE town, including people and animals, must be plundered and burnt to the ground? Weird! Does this answer your question regarding other religions requiring non-believers to follow its precepts?

This make Islam more than a religion, as all theocracies have been. Religions are concerned only with a persons relationship with God, not their relationship with government.

On a philosophical level, this is a valid idea. On a practical level, as you mentioned, ALL theocracies are, in some part, political. It comes with the territory. It's generally difficult to claim your religion is the one true religion without it.

Religions do not want to kill you for not agreeing with them.

History and recent events would show that people kill for both religious and political reasons for not agreeing with them.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

You must be the pride of the 3rd grade. No skills, just name-calling. How's life on the short-bus?

Never called you a name. But I'm certainly not going to debate Islam or the Park51 center, since you've obviously:

a.) Never met a Muslim
b.) Never been to New York
c.) Incredibly Islamophobic.

Have a nice day.

Wrong on all fronts... again.