Islam forbids

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by Mr.Fitnah, Jul 14, 2009.

  1. Mr.Fitnah
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    Mr.Fitnah Dreamcrusher

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    Islam forbids the killing of innocent people"
    Please provide scripture to proves unequivocally non muslims are innocent
    Shirk is worse than Killing



    Since Jihad involves killing and shedding the blood of men, Allah indicated that these men are committing disbelief in Allah, associating with Him (in the worship) and hindering from His path, and this is a much greater evil and more disastrous than killing. Abu Malik commented about what Allah said:

    (And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing.) Meaning what you (disbelievers) are committing is much worse than killing.'' Abu Al-`Aliyah, Mujahid, Sa`id bin Jubayr,`Ikrimah, Al-Hasan, Qatadah, Ad-Dahhak and Ar-Rabi` bin Anas said that what Allah said:
    (And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing.) "Shirk (polytheism) is worse than killing.''

    2:191.
    And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah[] is worse than killing. And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-al-Harâm (the sanctuary at Makkah),[] unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.
    2:192.
    But if they cease, then Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
    2:193.
    And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone).[] But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)
    no transgression except against
    no transgression except against
    no transgression except against
    no transgression except against
    no transgression except against
    2:194.
    The sacred month is for the sacred month, and for the prohibited things, there is the Law of Equality (Qisâs). Then whoever transgresses the prohibition against you, you transgress likewise against him. And fear Allâh, and know that Allâh is with Al-Muttaqûn (the pious - see V.2:2).
    2:195.
    And spend in the Cause of Allâh (i.e. Jihâd of all kinds, etc.) and do not throw yourselves into destruction (by not spending your wealth in the Cause of Allâh), and do good. Truly, Allâh loves Al-Muhsinûn[](the good-doers).
     
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  2. JenT
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    JenT God lead our troops

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    This reminds me of the claim that Islam is for peace, but nobody mentions that peace is believed to be when all the world is Islam.
     
  3. Mr Ripley
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    Mr Ripley BANNED

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    Muslims fight with each other when they run out of infidels to attack.
     
  4. Mr.Fitnah
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    That is not arbitrary , Straightening out muslims is so they can kill non muslims is a primary goal of fundamental muslims many muslims fail to undertake their obligations

    COMMANDING THE RIGHT AND FORBIDDING THE WRONG

    From the Reliance of the Traveller (Book Q)

    [The Reliance of the Traveller is a book every English-speaking Muslim should have, even if they are not Shafi`i, because it contains much that is necessary for every morally responsible person to know…]

    q0.0 INTRODUCTION

    q0.1 (n: The discussion and analysis that follow are Imam Ghazali's, edited by the Hanbali scholar Ibn Qudama Maqdisi from an earlier abridgement of Ghazali's Ihya' `ulum al-din by `Abd al-Rahman ibn Jawzi, which Maqdisi shortened to a single volume whose conciseness, if less vivid than the Ihya', better lends itself to the purpose of the present section, which is to discuss the practical implications of an important aspect of Scared Law.)

    q0.2 (Ibn Qudama Maqdisi:) One should know that commanding the right and forbidding the wrong is the most important fundamental of the religion, and is the mission that Allah sent the prophets to fulfill. If it were folded up and put away, religion itself would vanish, dissolution appear, and whole lands come to ruin.
     
  5. Mr.Fitnah
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    q1.0 THE OBLIGATION TO COMMAND THE RIGHT

    q1.1 Allah Most High says,

    ``Let there be a group of you who call to good, commanding the right and forbidding the wrong, for those are the successful'' (Koran 3:104).

    This verse explains that commanding the right and forbidding the wrong re a communal rather than a personal obligation (dis: c3.2), for He says, ``Let there be a group of you...''and not, ``All of you command the right.'' So if enough people do it (A: meaning that whenever a wrong is seen, one of those who see it corrects it), the responsibility is lifted from the rest, those who perform it being expressly mentioned as the successful. There are many verses in the Holy Koran about commanding the right and forbidding the wrong.

    q1.2 The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said:

    "Those who keep within Allah's limits and those who transgress them or allow them to be compromised may be compared to people on a ship, some of whom must stay below deck in the hardest and worst place, while others get passage above. When those below need water, they pass through those on the upper deck, injuring and annoying them until those below reflect, 'If we were to stave a hole in the hull we could get water without troubling those above. 'Were those above deck to leave those below to themselves, all would be destroyed, while if they were to help them, all would be saved."

    "Whoever of you sees something wrong, let him change it with his hand. If unable to, then let him change it with his tongue. If unable, then with his heart. And that is the weakest degree of faith."

    "The best jihad is speaking the truth to an unjust ruler."

    "When you see my Community too intimidated by an oppressor to tell him, 'You are a tyrant,' then you may as well say good by to them."

    "Command the right and forbid the wrong, or Allah will put the worst of you in charge of the best of you, and the best will supplicate Allah and be left unanswered."

    q1.3 Abu Bakr (Allah be well pleased with him) rose from his place, and after having praised Allah Most High, said, "O people: you recite the verse,

    "'O you who believe: you are responsible for yourselves; those who go astray will not harm you if you are guided' (Koran 5:105),"

    while we have heard the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) say,

    "'People who do not change something wrong when they see it are on the verge of a sweeping punishment from Allah.'"
     
  6. Mr.Fitnah
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    From the Noble Quran ,
    ( The best translation IMO do to the fact it does not attmpt to translate words that cannot be directly translated there for avoiding imparting bias )
    9:111. Verily, Allâh has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties; for the price that theirs shall be the Paradise. They fight in Allâh's Cause, so they kill (others) and are killed. It is a promise in truth which is binding on Him in the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel) and the Qur'ân. And who is truer to his covenant than Allâh? Then rejoice in the bargain which you have concluded. That is the supreme success[].

    9:112. (The believers whose lives Allâh has purchased are) those who repent to Allâh (from polytheism and hypocrisy, etc.), who worship Him, who praise Him, who fast (or go out in Allâh's Cause), who bow down (in prayer), who prostrate themselves (in prayer), who enjoin (people) for Al-Ma'rûf (i.e. Islâmic Monotheism and all what Islâm has ordained) and forbid (people) from Al-Munkar (i.e. disbelief, polytheism of all kinds and all that Islâm has forbidden), and who observe the limits set by Allâh (do all that Allâh has ordained and abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds which Allâh has forbidden). And give glad tidings to the believers
     
  7. Mr.Fitnah
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    q2.0 WHO MAY COMMAND THE RIGHT AND FORBID THE WRONG
    LEGAL RESPONSIBILITY

    q2.1 There are four integrals (def: q2-5) in commanding the right and forbidding the wrong, the first of which is that the person doing so be legally responsible (def: c8.1), Muslim, and able to, these being the conditions for it to be obligatory, though a child of the age of discrimination (def: f1.2) who condemns something dishonorable is rewarded for doing so, even if it is not obligatory for him to.

    MORAL RECTITUDE IS NOT A CONDITION

    q2.2 As for requirements of moral rectitude in the person giving the reprimand, some scholars take this into consideration and say that a corrupt person is not entitled to censure, a position for which they adduce the word of Allah Most High,

    "Do you enjoin piety to others and forget yourselves?" (Koran 2:44),

    but there are no grounds in the verse for such and inference.

    HAVING THE CALIPH'S PERMISSION

    q2.3 Some scholars stipulate that the person delivering the censure must have permission to do so from the caliph (def: o25) or his regional appointee, and do not grant that private individuals may censure others. This is untrue, for the Koranic verses and hadiths all indicate that whoever sees something wrong and does nothing has sinned. Stipulating that there must be permission from the caliph is mere arbitrary opinion. One should realize that there are five levels of censure: explaining the wrong nature of the act, admonishing the person politely, reviling him and harshness, forcibly stopping the act (such as by breaking musical instruments or pouring out wine), and finally, intimidation and threatening to strike the person or actually hitting him to stop what he is doing. It is the latter level, not the first four, that requires the caliph, because it may lead to civil disorder. The early Muslims' invariable practice of reprimanding those in authority decisively proves by their consensus (def: b7) that there is no need for a superior's authorization. If it be wondered whether a child is entitled to reprove his father, or a wife her husband, or for private citizens to reprove their ruler, the answer is that all are fundamentally entitled to. We have distinguished the five levels: the child is entitled to explain the nature of the act, to admonish and advise his parents politely, and finally may censure at the fourth level by such things as breaking a lute, pouring out wine, and so forth. This is also the sequence that should be observed by a wife. As for private citizens with their ruler, the matter is much graver than a child's reproving his father, and citizens are only entitled to explain the matter and advise.
     
  8. Mr.Fitnah
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    I now have enough post to add a link, the page goes on to detail the level of coercion and how they are to be applied .The Reliance of the Traveller is the english version of Umdat as-Salik wa 'Uddat an-Nasik.
    It is an essential tool for understanding Islam.

    Reliance of The Traveller: Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law

    Commanding the Right & Forbidding the Wrong

    ISBN: 0915957728
    Author: Naqib Misri/N.H.M. Keller
    Publisher: Amana Publications
    Pages: 1264 Binding: Hardback

    Description from the publisher:

    The new edition of the in-depth manual of Islamic law based on the Shafi'i school of thought, with a detailed index and commentary on specific rulings. 1,200 pages in an exceptional binding with Arabic and facing English text in two column format with occasional diagrams. 'Umdat al-Salik wa 'Uddat al-Nasik (Reliance of the Traveller and tools of the Worshipper) is a classic manual of fiqh. It represents the fiqh rulings according to the Shafi'I school of jurisprudence. The appendices form an integral part of the book and present original texts and translations from classic works by prominent scholars such as al-Ghazali, Ibn Qudamah, al-Nawawi, al-Qurturbi, al-Dhahabi, Ibn Hajar and other, on topics of Islamic law, faith, spirituality, Qur'anic exegesis and Hadith sciences. It has also biographical notes about every person mentioned (391 biographies) , bibliography of each work cited (136 works), and a detailed subject index (95 pages). Of the 136 works drawn upon in its commentary and appendices, 134 are in the original Arabic. The sections and paragraphs have been numbered to facilitate cross-reference.
     
  9. Sunni Man
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    Sunni Man Diamond Member

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    Mr. Fitnah

    The reason no one is responding to your posts.

    Is because it is not clear as to what you are saying or what exactly your point is?
     
  10. Mr.Fitnah
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    Mr.Fitnah Dreamcrusher

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    Many muslims like to say "Islam forbids the killing of innocent people", I'm asking for some one to proves unequivocally using Islamic scripture that none muslims are innocent, Thanks for reading my post.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2009

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