Islam forbids

[Mr.Fitnah]

Islam forbids the killing of innocent people"
Please provide scripture to proves unequivocally non muslims are innocent
Shirk is worse than Killing



Since Jihad involves killing and shedding the blood of men, Allah indicated that these men are committing disbelief in Allah, associating with Him (in the worship) and hindering from His path, and this is a much greater evil and more disastrous than killing. Abu Malik commented about what Allah said:

(And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing.) Meaning what you (disbelievers) are committing is much worse than killing.'' Abu Al-`Aliyah, Mujahid, Sa`id bin Jubayr,`Ikrimah, Al-Hasan, Qatadah, Ad-Dahhak and Ar-Rabi` bin Anas said that what Allah said:
(And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing.) "Shirk (polytheism) is worse than killing.''

2:191.
And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah[] is worse than killing. And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-al-Harâm (the sanctuary at Makkah),[] unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.
2:192.
But if they cease, then Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
2:193.
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone).[] But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)
no transgression except against
no transgression except against
no transgression except against
no transgression except against
no transgression except against
2:194.
The sacred month is for the sacred month, and for the prohibited things, there is the Law of Equality (Qisâs). Then whoever transgresses the prohibition against you, you transgress likewise against him. And fear Allâh, and know that Allâh is with Al-Muttaqûn (the pious - see V.2:2).
2:195.
And spend in the Cause of Allâh (i.e. Jihâd of all kinds, etc.) and do not throw yourselves into destruction (by not spending your wealth in the Cause of Allâh), and do good. Truly, Allâh loves Al-Muhsinûn[](the good-doers).

 

[JenT]

This reminds me of the claim that Islam is for peace, but nobody mentions that peace is believed to be when all the world is Islam.

 

[Mr Ripley]

Muslims fight with each other when they run out of infidels to attack.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Muslims fight with each other when they run out of infidels to attack.

That is not arbitrary , Straightening out muslims is so they can kill non muslims is a primary goal of fundamental muslims many muslims fail to undertake their obligations

COMMANDING THE RIGHT AND FORBIDDING THE WRONG

From the Reliance of the Traveller (Book Q)

[The Reliance of the Traveller is a book every English-speaking Muslim should have, even if they are not Shafi`i, because it contains much that is necessary for every morally responsible person to know…]

q0.0 INTRODUCTION

q0.1 (n: The discussion and analysis that follow are Imam Ghazali's, edited by the Hanbali scholar Ibn Qudama Maqdisi from an earlier abridgement of Ghazali's Ihya' `ulum al-din by `Abd al-Rahman ibn Jawzi, which Maqdisi shortened to a single volume whose conciseness, if less vivid than the Ihya', better lends itself to the purpose of the present section, which is to discuss the practical implications of an important aspect of Scared Law.)

q0.2 (Ibn Qudama Maqdisi One should know that commanding the right and forbidding the wrong is the most important fundamental of the religion, and is the mission that Allah sent the prophets to fulfill. If it were folded up and put away, religion itself would vanish, dissolution appear, and whole lands come to ruin.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

q1.0 THE OBLIGATION TO COMMAND THE RIGHT

q1.1 Allah Most High says,

``Let there be a group of you who call to good, commanding the right and forbidding the wrong, for those are the successful'' (Koran 3:104).

This verse explains that commanding the right and forbidding the wrong re a communal rather than a personal obligation (dis: c3.2), for He says, ``Let there be a group of you...''and not, ``All of you command the right.'' So if enough people do it (A: meaning that whenever a wrong is seen, one of those who see it corrects it), the responsibility is lifted from the rest, those who perform it being expressly mentioned as the successful. There are many verses in the Holy Koran about commanding the right and forbidding the wrong.

q1.2 The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said:

"Those who keep within Allah's limits and those who transgress them or allow them to be compromised may be compared to people on a ship, some of whom must stay below deck in the hardest and worst place, while others get passage above. When those below need water, they pass through those on the upper deck, injuring and annoying them until those below reflect, 'If we were to stave a hole in the hull we could get water without troubling those above. 'Were those above deck to leave those below to themselves, all would be destroyed, while if they were to help them, all would be saved."

"Whoever of you sees something wrong, let him change it with his hand. If unable to, then let him change it with his tongue. If unable, then with his heart. And that is the weakest degree of faith."

"The best jihad is speaking the truth to an unjust ruler."

"When you see my Community too intimidated by an oppressor to tell him, 'You are a tyrant,' then you may as well say good by to them."

"Command the right and forbid the wrong, or Allah will put the worst of you in charge of the best of you, and the best will supplicate Allah and be left unanswered."

q1.3 Abu Bakr (Allah be well pleased with him) rose from his place, and after having praised Allah Most High, said, "O people: you recite the verse,

"'O you who believe: you are responsible for yourselves; those who go astray will not harm you if you are guided' (Koran 5:105),"

while we have heard the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) say,

"'People who do not change something wrong when they see it are on the verge of a sweeping punishment from Allah.'"

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

From the Noble Quran ,
( The best translation IMO do to the fact it does not attmpt to translate words that cannot be directly translated there for avoiding imparting bias )
9:111. Verily, Allâh has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties; for the price that theirs shall be the Paradise. They fight in Allâh's Cause, so they kill (others) and are killed. It is a promise in truth which is binding on Him in the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel) and the Qur'ân. And who is truer to his covenant than Allâh? Then rejoice in the bargain which you have concluded. That is the supreme success[].

9:112. (The believers whose lives Allâh has purchased are) those who repent to Allâh (from polytheism and hypocrisy, etc.), who worship Him, who praise Him, who fast (or go out in Allâh's Cause), who bow down (in prayer), who prostrate themselves (in prayer), who enjoin (people) for Al-Ma'rûf (i.e. Islâmic Monotheism and all what Islâm has ordained) and forbid (people) from Al-Munkar (i.e. disbelief, polytheism of all kinds and all that Islâm has forbidden), and who observe the limits set by Allâh (do all that Allâh has ordained and abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds which Allâh has forbidden). And give glad tidings to the believers

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

q2.0 WHO MAY COMMAND THE RIGHT AND FORBID THE WRONG
LEGAL RESPONSIBILITY

q2.1 There are four integrals (def: q2-5) in commanding the right and forbidding the wrong, the first of which is that the person doing so be legally responsible (def: c8.1), Muslim, and able to, these being the conditions for it to be obligatory, though a child of the age of discrimination (def: f1.2) who condemns something dishonorable is rewarded for doing so, even if it is not obligatory for him to.

MORAL RECTITUDE IS NOT A CONDITION

q2.2 As for requirements of moral rectitude in the person giving the reprimand, some scholars take this into consideration and say that a corrupt person is not entitled to censure, a position for which they adduce the word of Allah Most High,

"Do you enjoin piety to others and forget yourselves?" (Koran 2:44),

but there are no grounds in the verse for such and inference.

HAVING THE CALIPH'S PERMISSION

q2.3 Some scholars stipulate that the person delivering the censure must have permission to do so from the caliph (def: o25) or his regional appointee, and do not grant that private individuals may censure others. This is untrue, for the Koranic verses and hadiths all indicate that whoever sees something wrong and does nothing has sinned. Stipulating that there must be permission from the caliph is mere arbitrary opinion. One should realize that there are five levels of censure: explaining the wrong nature of the act, admonishing the person politely, reviling him and harshness, forcibly stopping the act (such as by breaking musical instruments or pouring out wine), and finally, intimidation and threatening to strike the person or actually hitting him to stop what he is doing. It is the latter level, not the first four, that requires the caliph, because it may lead to civil disorder. The early Muslims' invariable practice of reprimanding those in authority decisively proves by their consensus (def: b7) that there is no need for a superior's authorization. If it be wondered whether a child is entitled to reprove his father, or a wife her husband, or for private citizens to reprove their ruler, the answer is that all are fundamentally entitled to. We have distinguished the five levels: the child is entitled to explain the nature of the act, to admonish and advise his parents politely, and finally may censure at the fourth level by such things as breaking a lute, pouring out wine, and so forth. This is also the sequence that should be observed by a wife. As for private citizens with their ruler, the matter is much graver than a child's reproving his father, and citizens are only entitled to explain the matter and advise.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

I now have enough post to add a link, the page goes on to detail the level of coercion and how they are to be applied .The Reliance of the Traveller is the english version of Umdat as-Salik wa 'Uddat an-Nasik.
It is an essential tool for understanding Islam.

Reliance of The Traveller: Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law

Commanding the Right & Forbidding the Wrong

ISBN: 0915957728
Author: Naqib Misri/N.H.M. Keller
Publisher: Amana Publications
Pages: 1264 Binding: Hardback

Description from the publisher:

The new edition of the in-depth manual of Islamic law based on the Shafi'i school of thought, with a detailed index and commentary on specific rulings. 1,200 pages in an exceptional binding with Arabic and facing English text in two column format with occasional diagrams. 'Umdat al-Salik wa 'Uddat al-Nasik (Reliance of the Traveller and tools of the Worshipper) is a classic manual of fiqh. It represents the fiqh rulings according to the Shafi'I school of jurisprudence. The appendices form an integral part of the book and present original texts and translations from classic works by prominent scholars such as al-Ghazali, Ibn Qudamah, al-Nawawi, al-Qurturbi, al-Dhahabi, Ibn Hajar and other, on topics of Islamic law, faith, spirituality, Qur'anic exegesis and Hadith sciences. It has also biographical notes about every person mentioned (391 biographies) , bibliography of each work cited (136 works), and a detailed subject index (95 pages). Of the 136 works drawn upon in its commentary and appendices, 134 are in the original Arabic. The sections and paragraphs have been numbered to facilitate cross-reference.

 

[Sunni Man]

Mr. Fitnah

The reason no one is responding to your posts.

Is because it is not clear as to what you are saying or what exactly your point is?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Mr. Fitnah

The reason no one is responding to your posts.

Is because it is not clear as to what you are saying or what exactly your point is?

Many muslims like to say "Islam forbids the killing of innocent people", I'm asking for some one to proves unequivocally using Islamic scripture that none muslims are innocent, Thanks for reading my post.

 

[PixieStix]

Mr. Fitnah

The reason no one is responding to your posts.

Is because it is not clear as to what you are saying or what exactly your point is?

The point is facts, and if people actually think and study Islam, there is only one conclusion of it. I am not speaking od Muslims, but of Islam.

People are not responding, because it is early. Many people are still at work. Give them time. ( plus many believe it is ok to denegrade christianity while fearing telling the truth of Islam.

You want this thread to go away.

I believe it just may be one of the most informative threads about the history and the truth about mohammed ect. That will exist on this forum.

No apologetics. No fear. Just the facts ma'am

Islam forbids just about everything that is American.

 

[Sunni Man]

Mr. Fitnah

The reason no one is responding to your posts.

Is because it is not clear as to what you are saying or what exactly your point is?

Islam forbids just about everything that is American.

Last time we had a picnic for all of the muslim familys at the mosque.

A couple of the women had baked apple pies for dessert after lunch.

Later in the afternoon, we played a game of baseball.

Apple pie and baseball

Can get more American than that!!!

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Last time we had a picnic for all of the muslim familys at the mosque.

A couple of the women had baked apple pies for dessert after lunch.

Later in the afternoon, we played a game of baseball.

Apple pie and baseball

Can get more American than that!!!

Insufficient proof non muslims are innocent according to Islamic scripture.

 

[Sunni Man]

Last time we had a picnic for all of the muslim familys at the mosque.

A couple of the women had baked apple pies for dessert after lunch.

Later in the afternoon, we played a game of baseball.

Apple pie and baseball

Can get more American than that!!!

Insufficient proof non muslims are innocent according to Islamic scripture.

Try to keep up and pay attention Mr. Fitnah.

I was responding to this statement:

"Islam forbids just about everything that is American".

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Last time we had a picnic for all of the muslim familys at the mosque.

A couple of the women had baked apple pies for dessert after lunch.

Later in the afternoon, we played a game of baseball.

Apple pie and baseball

Can get more American than that!!!

Insufficient proof non muslims are innocent according to Islamic scripture.

Try to keep up and pay attention Mr. Fitnah.

I was responding to this statement:

"Islam forbids just about everything that is American".

That is no the topic of this thread, please try to refrain from extraneous distraction on a topic (Islam) that means so much to you.
Although many sporting event do not conflict with sharee’ah, use care.

Islam Question and Answer - Wearing youth caps

Wearing youth caps
What is your opinion on the new fashion [in the Arab world] of people wearing caps with a visor in front [i.e., baseball caps]?

Praise be to Allaah.
It is not permissible for a Muslim to imitate the kuffaar in his dress. If wearing these caps or anything else is one of their distinguishing features and something for which they are well are known and by which they are distinguished from others, then it is not permissible for the Muslim to wear those things. But if it serves some purpose and it is not something that belongs exclusively to the kuffaar, such as hats worn for work on building sites or in other workplaces, which are worn to protect the head and shade the eyes from the sun, there is nothing wrong with doing that. But if the hat is worn with the visor to the side or the back, this is not appropriate for the Muslim youth.

Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Snip

Islam Question and Answer - Ruling on imitating the kuffaar, and the meaning of the phrase, “What the Muslims think is good is good before Allaah” al-Siraat al-Mustaqeem, 237.

The one who imitates the kuffaar feels that inferior and defeated, so he hastens to make up for his feelings of inadequacy by imitating those whom he admires. If these people were to ponder the greatness of Islamic sharee’ah and understand how corrupt is that civilization they are running after, they would realize that they are doing wrong and that they have forsaken something that is perfect and true for something that is imperfect and corrupt.

snip

Our attitude towards western civilization may be one of four things, and there is no fifth:

1- Ignoring this civilization, good points and bad alike.

2- Adopting it in whole, good points and bad.

3- Adopting the bad things and not the good.

4- Adopting the good things and not the bad.

The first three are undoubtedly wrong and only one of them is undoubtedly good, which is the last one.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Praise be to Allaah.

The meeting together, mixing, and intermingling of men and women in one place, the crowding of them together, and the revealing and exposure of women to men are prohibited by the Law of Islam (Shari'ah). These acts are prohibited because they are among the causes for fitnah (temptation or trial which implies evil consequences), the arousing of desires, and the committing of indecency and wrongdoing.

Islam Question and Answer - Evidence Prohibiting of Mixing of Men and Women

 

[Sunni Man]

Insufficient proof non muslims are innocent according to Islamic scripture.

Try to keep up and pay attention Mr. Fitnah.

I was responding to this statement:

"Islam forbids just about everything that is American".

What is your opinion on the new fashion [in the Arab world] of people wearing caps with a visor in front [i.e., baseball caps]?

Praise be to Allaah.
It is not permissible for a Muslim to imitate the kuffaar in his dress. If wearing these caps or anything else is one of their distinguishing features and something for which they are well are known and by which they are distinguished from others, then it is not permissible for the Muslim to wear those things. But if it serves some purpose and it is not something that belongs exclusively to the kuffaar, such as hats worn for work on building sites or in other workplaces, which are worn to protect the head and shade the eyes from the sun, there is nothing wrong with doing that. But if the hat is worn with the visor to the side or the back, this is not appropriate for the Muslim youth.

Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

Just because one Imam says that he doesn't think the youth should wear ball caps sideways on their heads.

Doesn't make it a hard core ruling that all muslims must obey.

Heck, I were a ball cap my self. But the bill is facing forward.

I have heard famous christian preachers rail against sideways hats and drooping pants.

But that doesn't make it a ruling that all christians must obey.

Personally, I think it looks retarded, and would never hire a kid for my business that wore his hat sideways.


Mr. Fitnah, your veiled questions and accusations against Islam and Muslims is getting very tedious and basically boring.

So unless you have something of substance or interest to address.

I am going to bow out of this useless dialogue.

 

[JenT]

Mr. Fitnah

The reason no one is responding to your posts.

Is because it is not clear as to what you are saying or what exactly your point is?

Islam forbids just about everything that is American.

Last time we had a picnic for all of the muslim familys at the mosque.

A couple of the women had baked apple pies for dessert after lunch.

Later in the afternoon, we played a game of baseball.

Apple pie and baseball

Can get more American than that!!!

That sounds just like the celebration I went to.

And many of the women warned me that I better get some shoes on fast or there might be trouble (and not from them)

heh, culture clash to the max

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Mr. Fitnah, your veiled questions and accusations against Islam and Muslims is getting very tedious and basically boring.

So unless you have something of substance or interest to address.

I am going to bow out of this useless dialogue.

Veiled question? where?