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sweetbilly
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- #81
Originally posted by ajwps
Originally posted by sweetbilly
Ok mustafa, are you trying to say that you have the authority to kill whom ever you believe to be the enemy of God?
No I am saying that it is a sin to kill anyone in the name of G-d. More humans have been killed in the name of one god or another than any form of dictatorship, government, crusade or conversion of others from their own religions.
I agree with you, it is a sin to kill in Gods name.
Because if this is what you are saying, you have completely missed the point in the bible; and is not so ironically missing in the Qur'an. First, Jesus was God in carnate, so the choice to take life or give life is solely his (yes Godhead).
What proof have you that Jesus was a god incarnate (in the flesh) or any one part of a god-head? Don't tell me because St. Paul told you so....
No, not because Paul told me, Jesus said it himself when he said "I am that I am" He wasn't saying he was popeye. In Hebrew, "I am" was the name God gave Moses in the old testament when Moses asked who he was. To elaborate on this further read Genisis 3:22. Who is God talking to, who is US? And what is the tree of life? Then read John chapter 1:1. Is John actually saying that Jesus is the word, and in the beginning he was with God? Is John actually be saying that Jesus/God/spirit are one in the same? So here we have two books written by two completely different people, written thousands of years apart, saying exactally the same thing, pretty strange huh? I think you will find the bible, if it is translated correctly, is full of examples like this. Why do you think Jesus told satan "man does not live by bread alone, but every word that procedith out of the mouth of the father." He was saying don't twist Gods words. Those that have don't have Gods real words, only satans distortions.
Second, Yes God did give man the choice to choose between Good and evil, but the original sin that caused man to fall out of grace with God was thinking we can in anyway be like God (making decisions about who is evil who gets life Etc...like Islam feels God allows them to make) To suggest that man can in anyway be like God is aubsured, yet, In most of the Islamic nations they feel that they are absolutely correct in thinking that christians/Jews are the enemy of God (because of the teachings in the Qur'an, which are not the teachings of God).
Why would your concept of original sin (the eating of the forbidden apple) which gave Adam and Eve's an understanding that they were naked and ashamed somehow be passed on as a sinful nature to all generations. This concept of original sin is a Christian concept and not one in which the original bible (Old Testament) condemns all mankind to a helpless sin nature.
Adam/Eve had no concept that they were naked or had sinned, it was only when they became disobediant and ate the apple, which they were ordered by God not to eat, that they then knew of good and evil. If you really pay attention while you are reading Genisis you can read the first prophecy concerning the comming and sacrifice of Jesus too. Genisis 3:15 "I shall put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shalt bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heal" ( this referring to the sacrifice of Jesus; what would happen to Jesus on the cross, and what his sacrifice would do to Satan.) so are you trying to say you can save yourself, even when God has told you there is nothing you can do or give him. Don't you think God would take it as an insult by telling him you don't need him to save you? Besides didn't Cain murder Abel, proving that sin is passed on to all generations? once again read Genisis 3:22 because it is also saying that men are born not good, but evil. Very few of us have eaten of the tree of life, and those who have know they have. It is a personal experience between God and his children and forever takes away all doubt.
Men and women suffer the outcome by working by the sweat of their brows and the pain of childbirth. But men and women are born sinless while each person has the ability to choose their path between good and evil. As for Qur'an, a bible written by an illiterate used camel salesman, was a barbarian pedophile.
You're right, you do have the option of choosing to do either good or evil in this world, but just because you act a certain way dosen't mean that that's what you are. I'm sure God dosen't look down on good works, but it dosen't cure the initial problem of inate sin does it, remember Adam/Eve did not know they had sinned when they ate the apple? Besides tell me one thing God cannot give his children, including salvation?
You have accepted Jesus as your savior and the one who gives you freedom from any sins you may commit and that is your right. But your belief has no more validity to G-d than the sun-gods of the Incas.
Actually, if you study it, christianity is the only belief in the world that differs from all the others. The others are more similar to each other than they are different. Islam/ Budism/Hinduism/sadly Judism too, and any other that you want to bring up, all say the same thing " I can save myself, I don't need God to do it for me." This is really too bad, i'm sure God would like his children to recoginize his divinity/sovernty someday. Like i said earlier, physical scientific proof matches the Judeo-christian biblical text to the word; something that is missing in ALL other religions, including Islam. Read Genissis all the way through. It reveals the formation of the earth, exactally the way it is presently, and explains what happened geologically after the flood, even before Geology was a science. For those of us who understand things like (I'm not insulting you, ok) radio carbon dating, basalt deposits in the ocean, and continental drift also understand why main-stream science has missed the flaws in their theories and can't explain them. That's why their numbers don't jive, they don't believe the bible either. However, when the biblical text is introduced into the equation we can explain things main stream science can't.
And finally, being saved is not about what a person does in life "all have fallen short of the glory of God", it's about who you are with Satan/God, that's the reason why jesus was sent to save us (so we could have an image by which we could make the choice when antichrist comes, plus he was the blood sacrifice required for sin which is the reason he was the seed of God and the egg of woman, still man making the sacrifice to God)
First, I do not follow the evil beliefs of Islam as any thinking person can see the true meaning of Muhammad's contorted bible. You believe in a god that is from the egg of a woman and the seed of a ghost (or a man named Joseph). You may have fallen short of Jesus's glory but the G-d who created everything and this universe has no relatives or alter egos. A G-d that no one can see as He has no substance, no measurements and can't be understood by human intellect. You have a god-man Jesus who lived on earth, breathed the air, defecated, urinated, killed innocent fig trees and beat up the men who were selling animals for sacrifice to those who had no sacrificial animals of their own.
Those men, Jesus supposedly beat up, were getting rich off of God's name, and God/Jesus did not like it. That innocent Fig tree refused to provide good fruit as it too was commanded to do by Jesus, so God/Jesus made it an example of what happens when God is disobeyed. You say Joseph, and not the holyspirit impregnated Marry. Hum, then explain this: why then, if Jesus wasn't the son of God, or God in carnate, Hasn't anyone in two-thousand-years proven Jesus, whose ministry only lasted for three years, to be a false prophet? Good question huh? Remember the new testament is wholy built upon Jesus' teachings, and if it dosen't or can't jive with the old testament that would mean Jesus was a liar and not hte son of God like he said he was. If it does, then Jesus was exactaly as he said he was. God is incapable of lying in any fashion.
No blood sacrifice or killing of your son is necessary for man to save himself by living a life of mercy, justice and walking in the path of G-d. Adolph Eichmann in 1961 was tried for being responsible for the death of millions of Jews and gentiles. He was asked by his judges if he wanted to make peace with his maker. He accepted Jesus Christ's shed blood from a minister and the minister said after his death that this mass murderer was now living with Jesus in his mansions in the sky. When the press asked the minister about the millions of men, women and children who were murdered by this man who had not accepted Jesus Christ of Nazareth, the minister simply replied, "Oh these innocents are burning in hell." So the mass murderer lives with your god and those who believed in the father (G-d) are burning in hell for not accepting the son (god-head) Jesus. NICE.....
I'd like to know who that minister is so i can give him a piece of my mind, how would he know who is in heaven and who's not? The reason why many of those people suffered at the hands of the Germans was because many of them refused to accept Gods saving grace (Jesus Christ), so God did not interfere because they did not ask him to. This isn't a case of evil hurting good, this is a case of the lost being hurt by satan. God knows who believes in him and dosen't, there's no dogma to being saved, Eichman is in Hell right next to Hitler. Both were practitioners of their true faith, satanism.
We were all headed to hell, and if you think you can do something to earn your way to God you are quite mistaken.
Speak for yourself.....
Christians know they are right in their translation of the bible because of things like astronomy, archeology, fulfilled prophecys found only the bible, geology, and i'm not talking main stream science either, they don't know what's real either (they believe in evolution). I'm talking about stuff based solely on litteral biblical translations. Like check this out www.Pinkosi.com pay attention to the "red sea post", how could stuff this exist if it never happened? It surely wasn't a jewish conspiracy, and it follows christain biblical texts to the T.
Really??? Apparently you are not aware that the Dead Sea Scrolls of 2000 years ago didn't mention Jesus name one time nor did they have one mention of replacement theology where the Jewish people were replaced by a god called Jesus. There is not one single archeological proof of a man who lived by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth except in the works of the pagan Constantine and his Nicine Council some three hundred years after the so called crucifixion of Christ. Read about the orignal pagan Roman religion of Mythra and there you will find the same concepts of original sin, a god coming to earth to impregnate an earth woman, a saving son who was killed and rose, etc, etc. etc.
the dead sea a scrolls were written before Jesus, thus they wouldn't have any references to him. Do you know what the name Jesus means, it means emanuel, or God is with us. Mary was told by the holysprit to name her child this. No there is no archelogical proof that Jesus was alive just written records by many people of that time. You will also find that there was a Jewish prophecy concerning the comming of the massiah, those others you speak were taken from this and twisted. Funny in South America about the time of the Incas there was also a story of a man that built a giant boat before a massive flood and put animals on it, sound framiliar?
Christianity appears to have been borrowed from the earlier pagan religions, the gnostic and mystery religions that existed before Christianity. Take a note that the original Old Testament is part of your bible and somehow, maybe by chance or copying, many of the concepts and events seem to have happened with Jesus and his time a thousand or more years later. I can copy a bible and make a new one as well.
No, actually none were incoroporated in to the bible. The bible is the most scrutinized religious text in the world, if there was one scriptural refference in any of the texts that didn't meet the prophetical standards of the other 65 books it would have been thrown out long ago; like many others were. So you can write a bible too huh? Read Isaiah chapters 22-25 it's talking about the world trade center towers. Can you tell me about the future too, because my bible did? Can the koran do that? A reference to George Bush is in there too, "the youngest will lead them" and the war going on in Iraq right now. Most christians know these references are in the book of revelations (new testament).
So which book do you think is correct, Islam/Qur'an that can't provide things like this, or Christianity/bible that can. I never thought it was a hard decision to make myself.
Neither can be proved by any evidence except in the light of history of these two religions. You will eventually learn how hard that decision was for you to make yourself.
it's all in the eye of the beholder isn't it? "believe upon me in faith"
