Agreed that you (and I) would assume that, "each is trying to accomplish their function." But, what motivates the successul instructor? Successful graduates? If so then every American would know their names. Instead, we know the names of the institutions: Harvard, Yale, Brown, Princeton, MIT,......just the names that roll from our tongues as easily as the names of our children about whom we dream of visting there during their graduations. Professors at these schools receive La Creme de la Creme: They could be babbling idiots (many are quite liberal) and they would still produce successful graduates. So the question remains: What motivates the average university instructor?
I'll use this post to begin a new thread on the subject because I'm sorta flying by the seat of my pants here, but based on what I've read, heard, etc:
1. Research
2. Publications
3. Royalties from Textbook Sales
4. Escape from the "Real World"
Are all to different degrees, motives for the work of professors. Love of teaching, could be included, but is such a small fraction of the picture, that I don't feel it deserves numeration.
What I mean is that teachers determine HOW something is taught, not WHAT is taught. There are a wide range of ways HOW to teach the concept of WHAT a Fraction is. The least effective is the most abstract: simply reading one of your beloved dictionary definitions would be an example of an abstract way to define a fraction. Generally, student enjoy pizza. If you demonstrate that a pizza can be cut into equal portions, and that each portion is a FRACTION of the whole, and then you only share the pizza with students who will write, in their own words what a fraction is (without using the pizza in the definition), then students will learn the definition.
So you do NOT think making students feel good is a good idea? Making them feel bad will make learning easier? Certainly you don't expect everyone to get an "A" the first time they learn something: How much easier will it be to reteach those that fail to get it the first time if we "neg rep" them everytime they get anything wrong? Hell, I'd quit the board and go somewhere more friendly.
I assume you disagree with Friere?
Well, I see what he's suggesting as simply one technique among the larger-the-better bag of techniques a teacher has. Sometimes, with some students, one technique works better than others. IMHO science labs are this optimum opportunity. I'd be surprised that under any circumstances, even the Valhallah of Learning in Finland, that students work alone in science labs.
I don't know. Kids come from a wide variety of backgrounds....some of them are not very condusive to raising the perfect student. For example, when I was student teaching 8th grade Math, I had a student who could learn almost anything, in fact, I was sure she was gifted, on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, but absolutely nothing on Monday or Friday. Only later in the semester did we discover she was being sexually abused during the weekends.
Point being: They do pay. Regardless of their sadly immature attitudes.
Oh I agree with the Fuzzy definition of an "adult." But I'm speaking from the point of view of the professor: Compared to highschool students, college students are more mature, have consciously volunteered to be in the class, have paid to be there.
Oh I'll pos rep you for all these resource references because I agree with them all: Sure Universities must offer remediation courses (which is partially why I favor offering only vocational courses in high school). They should "reteach" in these courses. I'm not referring to remediation courses when I'm talking about professors that are unconcerned about "retesting."
Well, wouldn't it make YOU feel bad if everyone knew your score and it was shitty?
I've done exactly what this teacher has done. I posted only the grades, not the names (you got your paper back, so you knew who you were). I even graphed the grades to demonstrate what a nice bell-curve they formed. Obviously all students a) clearly knew where they stood. Did it encourage competition? Yes. It encouraged those who were at the upper end of the curve to compete with each other and complain about the "95" they received rather than the "96" they felt they deserved.
I must tell you, I really appreciate this not only because of the fun I have in the back-and-forth, but becuse I hope others will be interested in thinking about education, our future. Thanks again.
1. I'd like to start here, rather than as to what motivates the professor.
" teachers determine HOW something is taught,...'
No, and this is one of the biggest complaints that I hear. Progressive education theory stifles any distinction or variation, much as liberal political direction does in society. The 'one size must fit all' of pedagogy. Teachers tell me that the Friere (they don't mention the name) idea that the 'sage on the stage' is a no-no, and their observation reports scold 'chalk and talk,' and insist that there is constant group work, and some sort of student directed discussion, as opposed to a Socratic question and answer directed by the teacher.
I understand that the administrator actually uses a stop-watch to make sure that the teacher does no more than a 5-minute 'monologue'.
Some say that they are actually given a script.
2. "So you do NOT think making students feel good is a good idea?"
Now, now, that is not what I said. It depends on, as a famous Democrat once said, 'what the meaning of the word is is." Does feel good mean giving an A when the work is D? Does it mean saying, 'well, at least you did your best...'?
Nonsense.
State attainable goals, teach well, and test fully. The grade is the 'feel good' goal.
Further, publish the student grades, and publish the grades associated with the teacher as well.
If the same teacher constantly has failing student, the message will be clear.
3."Certainly you don't expect everyone to get an "A" the first time."
No, I don't. But I do expect there to be a mechanism that will encourage continued efforts. The (public) high school that I attended has a Resource Room, with teachers from each department, where a student could get help. Another teacher would come in early every day, and students could retake any exam- no matter the grade. Other teachers would allow students to sit in on additional classes if they wished.
Any student who did not avail himself of these aids should suffer the penalty.
4."Sometimes, with some students, one technique works better than others."
Friere and the educrats do not allow different techniques, and specify a) teachers cannot be the 'sage on the stage,' but must remain the 'guide on the side.' And b) students teaching students is THE technique.
But it goes beyond the individual classroom, as progressive education does not believe in teaching a body of knowledge, or fact based content.
"The pedagogical point of Freires thesis : its opposition to taxing students with any actual academic content,..." Ibid.
5. "...surprised that under any circumstances, even the Valhallah of Learning in Finland, that students work alone in science labs."
I believe that we are discussing whether or not students should ever work together.
Absolutely they should, especially in the situation that you have chosen.
But not as a rule to the exclusion of a teacher who actually knows the subject.
In my experience, groupwork always broke down into one student actually doing the work and three copying it.
I suspect, without real evidence, that the formulation that champions this groupwork idea is based on the result: three lazy students will now pass, and 'feel good.'
6. "I posted only the grades, not the names ..."
No, the teacher that I quoted earlier actually bucked the system and posted grades with names!
BTW, according to this teacher, his students had the highest passing % on the NYS Regenst exam approximately ever other year. In a department of about 30.
But this was prior to the stop-watch tyranny.
7. "...some of them are not very condusive to raising the perfect student. "
Spot on. This is the problem we must attack. We must provide ways to mitigate the problems that kids bring with them, many outside of their control. But we must always be honest with the kids. Real tests, real grades. Extra classes, extra time, let them choose the teacher, the textbook, other choices, so that they, to borrow the synecdoche that Dude uses, have 'more skin in the game.'
7a. "Only later in the semester did we discover she was being sexually abused during the weekends. "
OMG. This is way beyond my thoughts on education. But perhaps one of the problems with our system is that teachers are so well intentioned that they see every aspect of the child as their perview. It shouldn't be. In NY teachers are 'mandated reporters,' and must, by law, report such things to the responsible authorites.
8. "..wouldn't it make YOU feel bad ..."
Feeling bad is not the worst thing in the world.
Far worse is being passed on without the ability to succeed later in life. And I have read studies that show that affirmative action admitees to high level grad schools graduate as far lower rates than those who go to schools where they are better able to compete.
"Students admitted on this basis are often ill-equipped to handle the schools to which they've been admitted."
BalancedPolitics.org - Affirmative Action (Pros & Cons, Arguments For and Against)
[Here is the alternative view:]JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie
9. "rather than the "96" they felt they deserved..'
I think I'd love it. That is the perq of a 95 student: let them think that they rule.
But not the 45 student. He must be trained to understand that he can turn that 45 into a 95, and tell him how in short, clear, understandable steps.
Thanks again for taking the time share your views.
Remind me to post Ms. Coulters' sometime. You'd have fun attacking them.
I think I'll just start separate threads based on each of your points.
