Is the Voluntary Military a Good?

[daveman]

Everyone who served in the military knows some things. And while my perspective is from the sixties I would think these things still hold. No soldier, Marine, Air Force, Army, or Navy recruit does anything they are not told to do. GIs of any strip work for their government, if they disagreed with any policy or duty, be it KP or latrine duty, they were always free to see the Chaplain.

Military life can be a good life if you can tolerate the restrictions and the constant travel, sometimes to the remotest reaches of the earth. Family stayed home. This lead to many family problems, the saddest thing for the soldier was the 'Dear John.' Personally I never quite fit in, my time was the time of the draft and most American boys thought it a duty and not the enslavement some consider it today. Failure to salute got my ass reamed out many times. 'Sorry Sir, I didn't see you.'

But you learn in the military, we still had the GI Bill, and the service taught you to take care of yourself, to grow up, to learn during those hours of just watch. We had lots of drunks and lots of lifers, and lots of dreamers hoping for a better tomorrow, no one complained about three-two, like all things it was a mixed experience.

Now consider today when Navy Seals presume to take credit for something they were ordered to do and when they were provided the training and tools to do it? Obviously Obama deserves credit for a gutsy decision and the Seals great credit for a pretty flawless operation, but when did this mindless (political?) whining become part of the military too? It is bad enough we have the useless whining of the tea party, now the military has entered the fray. Remember RHIP, the chain of command matters if order is to be maintained. What has happened to the code of conduct.

So I ask is the voluntary military another step towards the decline of America? A step closer to a banana republic in which the banana owners control the republic. Is the all volunteer Army a good thing? I am beginning to think not. Diversity provides brakes on group think. Your thoughts.

A grunt forever and proud of it.

How astoundingly wrong-headed.

Banana republics have conscripts. Free nations have volunteers.

I wouldn't have wanted to serve alongside someone who didn't want to be there. His heart wouldn't be in the job, and the mission would suffer.

 

[midcan5]

They don't 'work for the government', they work for us... 'we, the people'.

Hahahahahaha, where does the wingnut circle jerk begin QW wants to be pivot man ....

Cali, next time you are near a military installation drive through the gate and if they complain, tell them, you work for me. Let me know how it goes?

As for other comments, Old Navy is thoughtful but too politically biased. Biases always cloud reason.

I did think about my line, they did what they were told to do - I stick with it. Were they good soldiers, yep, so were the soldiers who had the tragedy in Iran under Carter. Were they bad soldiers? Nope. Today because of Carter and the soldiers then, we were better prepared. Anyone who read the details knows that. But no one who served is going to tell me when they were given an order they engaged in a discussion with the sergeant officer DI or whoever on the merits and politics of the order. Especially when it is what they trained for, without that order they would have done nothing. That's the way it works.

 

[9thIDdoc]

"But no one who served is going to tell me when they were given an order they engaged in a discussion with the sergeant officer DI or whoever on the merits and politics of the order. Especially when it is what they trained for, without that order they would have done nothing. That's the way it works."

And all of that is totally beside the point. Just how much cedit is earned by saying "Yes" and then watching TV? It's just talk and actually accomplishes nothing in itself.

 

[Wiseacre]

Everyone who served in the military knows some things. And while my perspective is from the sixties I would think these things still hold. No soldier, Marine, Air Force, Army, or Navy recruit does anything they are not told to do. GIs of any strip work for their government, if they disagreed with any policy or duty, be it KP or latrine duty, they were always free to see the Chaplain.

Military life can be a good life if you can tolerate the restrictions and the constant travel, sometimes to the remotest reaches of the earth. Family stayed home. This lead to many family problems, the saddest thing for the soldier was the 'Dear John.' Personally I never quite fit in, my time was the time of the draft and most American boys thought it a duty and not the enslavement some consider it today. Failure to salute got my ass reamed out many times. 'Sorry Sir, I didn't see you.'

But you learn in the military, we still had the GI Bill, and the service taught you to take care of yourself, to grow up, to learn during those hours of just watch. We had lots of drunks and lots of lifers, and lots of dreamers hoping for a better tomorrow, no one complained about three-two, like all things it was a mixed experience.

Now consider today when Navy Seals presume to take credit for something they were ordered to do and when they were provided the training and tools to do it? Obviously Obama deserves credit for a gutsy decision and the Seals great credit for a pretty flawless operation, but when did this mindless (political?) whining become part of the military too? It is bad enough we have the useless whining of the tea party, now the military has entered the fray. Remember RHIP, the chain of command matters if order is to be maintained. What has happened to the code of conduct.

So I ask is the voluntary military another step towards the decline of America? A step closer to a banana republic in which the banana owners control the republic. Is the all volunteer Army a good thing? I am beginning to think not. Diversity provides brakes on group think. Your thoughts.

A grunt forever and proud of it.

So you're trying to say that a draft would provide diversity that would stifle group think a little bit? I don't think so, dude. Newsflash man, enlisted guys don't make policy or give orders. Why would you want to give a guy who doesn't want to serve a gun or put him in a tank? Sounds like recipe for disaster to me. As well as a lot more casualties on the battlefield.

As for the decline of America, we have a lot more important problems that the voluntary military. You seem to be suggesting that the big corps control the country and the military, or control the senior military officers and their civilian leaders. Do you really think the Iraq war or the Afghan war were ordered by them? And even if you did, what difference would it make if the enlisted men were drafted rather than volunteers? Surely you're not advocating some kind of disobedience? That's court-martial stuff, serious business.

 

[midcan5]

Someone above questioned my use of Banana republic, obviously there are words that mean something to the user that may not be conveyed in its usage to others, so I took a minute to research other meanings. While Wikipedia may not always be the best source of information, the definition provided in the link below describes a picture that works for me. Read it.

Banana republic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One of the things America has lost during its golden age, say forties to eighties, is a sense of shared responsibility and nation. I hate jingoism but taking care of your own is important on a number of levels. An army of jingoists would not be a good thing, and an Army whose interests were war only for whatever reason, is also not a good thing. I disagree with Wiseacre, but he is true to his conservatism, hierarchy matters. And while I could never be a career solider, the time I spent in the military taught me a lot and made you a more mature person. Hierarchy bugs me. It is a mistake to think that people are so different that they cannot blend into a force that can see reality and not just foes.

So is service to the nation now enslavement and not duty. One person online uses a quote of mine that the draft is duty.

People will (hopefully) always enter the military for all sorts of reasons, that makes it diverse - but the political use of ex-soldiers today, paid for by the Banana owners, just represents another level of disrespect - that is sad.

 

[JakeStarkey]

What a foolish, foolish comment. The military is commanded by the President and the chain of command is delegated down from there. You go try to give a soldier an order. What a foolish, foolish comment.

They don't 'work for the government', they work for us... 'we, the people'.

Idiot.

 

[California Girl]

They don't 'work for the government', they work for us... 'we, the people'.

Idiot.

So you are the asshole that treated us bad while in the military!?

Nope.

Idiot.

 

[California Girl]

What a foolish, foolish comment. The military is commanded by the President and the chain of command is delegated down from there. You go try to give a soldier an order. What a foolish, foolish comment.

They don't 'work for the government', they work for us... 'we, the people'.

Idiot.

The OP claims that the US military work for the Government. They do not. They protect the Constitution, and it's people. And... that government that you claim they work for... they work for us too. We are the boss. Not them.

 

[AmyNation]

The military is far more selective today than ever before. It's harder to be in, and harder still to stay. Instead of an army of people who resent having their choice taken away we have a trained force of the very best.

 

[daveman]

Someone above questioned my use of Banana republic, obviously there are words that mean something to the user that may not be conveyed in its usage to others, so I took a minute to research other meanings. While Wikipedia may not always be the best source of information, the definition provided in the link below describes a picture that works for me. Read it.

Banana republic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One of the things America has lost during its golden age, say forties to eighties, is a sense of shared responsibility and nation. I hate jingoism but taking care of your own is important on a number of levels. An army of jingoists would not be a good thing, and an Army whose interests were war only for whatever reason, is also not a good thing. I disagree with Wiseacre, but he is true to his conservatism, hierarchy matters. And while I could never be a career solider, the time I spent in the military taught me a lot and made you a more mature person. Hierarchy bugs me. It is a mistake to think that people are so different that they cannot blend into a force that can see reality and not just foes.

So is service to the nation now enslavement and not duty. One person online uses a quote of mine that the draft is duty.

People will (hopefully) always enter the military for all sorts of reasons, that makes it diverse - but the political use of ex-soldiers today, paid for by the Banana owners, just represents another level of disrespect - that is sad.

You say that conscription is not enslavement...then go on to say that veterans are slaves of the banana owners.

Veterans enjoy the same right of free speech as everyone else. If they say something you disagree with, that's your problem.

 

[daveman]

What a foolish, foolish comment. The military is commanded by the President and the chain of command is delegated down from there. You go try to give a soldier an order. What a foolish, foolish comment.

They don't 'work for the government', they work for us... 'we, the people'.

Idiot.

The OP claims that the US military work for the Government. They do not. They protect the Constitution, and it's people. And... that government that you claim they work for... they work for us too. We are the boss. Not them.

You speak heresy to the Left. They yearn to be subjects, not citizens.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Yet, you wrote this in English without restriction.

Do you know anything about the "nowadays" military? It has been two decades since your time in service after all.

The Invasion of Iraq neither gave me nor protects my Free Speech Rights. Are you saying it does?

Nowadays Military?: 3 or more tours of duty in Iraq or Afghanistan then back home to be put on psychotropic drugs and substandard VA Care. We're now seeing a rise in Military suicides from all that.

Nowadays Military?: Marines guarding opium poppy fields in Afghanistan so that it can be safely shipped to the US for Americans to be arrested for using and then be put into the Prison Industrial Complex, which is one of the few booming industries in the USA. Banks launder the Drug money as well, THAT'S what the Military protects.

Nowadays Military?: A UN Globalist Tool. The President and Secretary of Defense have said as much. I know you support that right? Wake up Sailor.

You see, the problem is Compartmentalized Veterans like you and Ollie who think ANY criticism (Which is exercising Free Speech) of the Military is Seditious and Anti-American.

Tell us Old Navy, after WWII which War has America fought that actually protected our rights here at home? Vietnam? Grenada? Iraq (twice)? Don't make me laugh!

America's Military has morphed into the Global Military Industrial Complex that Eisenhower warned us about. It no longer protects us but now wants to control us and our Economy.

I guess it was your "head examined" comment that struck a nerve. My son is a young officer of Marines and soon will be headed to A'stan to relieve I MEF in that AOR. So I am more than a compartmentalized veteran. I'm a dad who believes that the military goes where ordered by the president, regardless of which side of the political aisle we sit. I'm also a 26 year Corpsman with three FMF tours which is more time with the Marines than most Marines ever spend.

While Marines are guarding poppies, the sea lanes are still being kept open by the carrier strike groups. Other countries keep their fingers off the nuclear triggers due to our boomer force under the seas. The world's finest Army stands ready to maintain order in any situation. So, even though the civilian leadership sends the military into engagements that do not directly protect American freedoms, the number one constitutional mandate is still being carried out every day.

You're brainwashed just like Ollie. You think that because YOU served honorably that the ENTIRE Military is Honorable. Well it aint. You can "believe" all you want, but the truth is the truth and the facts are the facts.

When your son gets to Afghanistan ask him about the Opium Poppy trade that the Marines guard over there. You know WHY we guard it? So that the profits can be laundered through US Banks. You're son being an Officer will be in a better position to see all that.

Ask him about it, unless you don't have to guts to.

In the meantime checkout Gerald Rivers reporting from Afghanistan:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUATfLDiwVA"]Marines grow opium for their masters. - YouTube[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUATfLDiwVA"][/ame]

 

[9thIDdoc]

"The military is commanded by the President and the chain of command is delegated down from there."

Wrong. The Constitution sits atop the chain of command and the President is sworn"... to protect and defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic" and is restricted from giving any order that exceeds the authority granted therein.

 

[AmyNation]

"The military is commanded by the President and the chain of command is delegated down from there."

Wrong. The Constitution sits atop the chain of command and the President is sworn"... to protect and defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic" and is restricted from giving any order that exceeds the authority granted therein.

POTUS is commander and chief.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You, CG, are not the boss of any one here, particularly when you are fooling around in Europe, condemning the US and living (I hope) a good life there.

Try giving a soldier an order.

What a foolish, foolish comment. The military is commanded by the President and the chain of command is delegated down from there. You go try to give a soldier an order. What a foolish, foolish comment.

They don't 'work for the government', they work for us... 'we, the people'.

Idiot.

The OP claims that the US military work for the Government. They do not. They protect the Constitution, and it's people. And... that government that you claim they work for... they work for us too. We are the boss. Not them.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The military is subject to the President and the laws of Congress.

Article I Section 3: Congress shall have "To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions; To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;"

Article II Section 2 "The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States;"

"The military is commanded by the President and the chain of command is delegated down from there."

Wrong. The Constitution sits atop the chain of command and the President is sworn"... to protect and defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic" and is restricted from giving any order that exceeds the authority granted therein.

 

[old navy]

The Invasion of Iraq neither gave me nor protects my Free Speech Rights. Are you saying it does?

Nowadays Military?: 3 or more tours of duty in Iraq or Afghanistan then back home to be put on psychotropic drugs and substandard VA Care. We're now seeing a rise in Military suicides from all that.

Nowadays Military?: Marines guarding opium poppy fields in Afghanistan so that it can be safely shipped to the US for Americans to be arrested for using and then be put into the Prison Industrial Complex, which is one of the few booming industries in the USA. Banks launder the Drug money as well, THAT'S what the Military protects.

Nowadays Military?: A UN Globalist Tool. The President and Secretary of Defense have said as much. I know you support that right? Wake up Sailor.

You see, the problem is Compartmentalized Veterans like you and Ollie who think ANY criticism (Which is exercising Free Speech) of the Military is Seditious and Anti-American.

Tell us Old Navy, after WWII which War has America fought that actually protected our rights here at home? Vietnam? Grenada? Iraq (twice)? Don't make me laugh!

America's Military has morphed into the Global Military Industrial Complex that Eisenhower warned us about. It no longer protects us but now wants to control us and our Economy.

I guess it was your "head examined" comment that struck a nerve. My son is a young officer of Marines and soon will be headed to A'stan to relieve I MEF in that AOR. So I am more than a compartmentalized veteran. I'm a dad who believes that the military goes where ordered by the president, regardless of which side of the political aisle we sit. I'm also a 26 year Corpsman with three FMF tours which is more time with the Marines than most Marines ever spend.

While Marines are guarding poppies, the sea lanes are still being kept open by the carrier strike groups. Other countries keep their fingers off the nuclear triggers due to our boomer force under the seas. The world's finest Army stands ready to maintain order in any situation. So, even though the civilian leadership sends the military into engagements that do not directly protect American freedoms, the number one constitutional mandate is still being carried out every day.

You're brainwashed just like Ollie. You think that because YOU served honorably that the ENTIRE Military is Honorable. Well it aint. You can "believe" all you want, but the truth is the truth and the facts are the facts.

When your son gets to Afghanistan ask him about the Opium Poppy trade that the Marines guard over there. You know WHY we guard it? So that the profits can be laundered through US Banks. You're son being an Officer will be in a better position to see all that.

Ask him about it, unless you don't have to guts to.

In the meantime checkout Gerald Rivers reporting from Afghanistan:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUATfLDiwVA"]Marines grow opium for their masters. - YouTube[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUATfLDiwVA"][/ame]

Yeah, once again, I have the chance to call you "tough guy" on the Internet you piece of shit. Question my guts behind the the safety of the keyboard? It isn't my fault you did 10 years and had to get the fuck out of the military, and now have a hard on for those of us who served without reservation. Why are you bringing Ollie into this? You weak bastard. And I'll watch G. Rivera when I'm in a coma and some sadistic fuck turns the TV to his punk ass.

Seek help you turd. Mad Scientist indeed. Just keep paying taxes so I keep getting my retirement deposit every month.

 

[9thIDdoc]

The military is subject to the President and the laws of Congress.

And the President is subject to the Constitution.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Someone above questioned my use of Banana republic, obviously there are words that mean something to the user that may not be conveyed in its usage to others, so I took a minute to research other meanings. While Wikipedia may not always be the best source of information, the definition provided in the link below describes a picture that works for me. Read it.

Banana republic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One of the things America has lost during its golden age, say forties to eighties, is a sense of shared responsibility and nation. I hate jingoism but taking care of your own is important on a number of levels. An army of jingoists would not be a good thing, and an Army whose interests were war only for whatever reason, is also not a good thing. I disagree with Wiseacre, but he is true to his conservatism, hierarchy matters. And while I could never be a career solider, the time I spent in the military taught me a lot and made you a more mature person. Hierarchy bugs me. It is a mistake to think that people are so different that they cannot blend into a force that can see reality and not just foes.

So is service to the nation now enslavement and not duty. One person online uses a quote of mine that the draft is duty.

People will (hopefully) always enter the military for all sorts of reasons, that makes it diverse - but the political use of ex-soldiers today, paid for by the Banana owners, just represents another level of disrespect - that is sad.

Hey, "genius", just because you think America has lost a shared idea of community does not mean that everyone has lost those values. conservatives tend to cling bitterly to those values, which is why they are more likely to join the military than liberals.

If you really believe we lost it maybe you should look in the mirror and tell the guy you see there to get his act together and to stop tearing down the values you admire.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

What a foolish, foolish comment. The military is commanded by the President and the chain of command is delegated down from there. You go try to give a soldier an order. What a foolish, foolish comment.

They don't 'work for the government', they work for us... 'we, the people'.

Idiot.

There was a foolish comment, and there is an idiot, but it wasn't the one that pointed out that the military for us, because the president also works for us. Not to mention that, it the president gives an unlawful order, the military is supposed to ignore it.