Is the US becoming a serf economy

[Againsheila]

A Pub DEPRESSION is not the time to raise taxes on the rich. Even the A-Holes that got us in this mess. Neither is O-care a serf thing.

I think this material shows that the wealthy in the US get an easier ride than they do in any other country on earth. Too easy.

I am pro-capitalist, pro-incentives and all for people earning the most they can in life, but I also believe wealthy people can pay a fair amount towards supporting the system that produces that wealth.

The average compensation of a CEO in 1980 was about 40 times that of the average worker in his company. Today it is more than 500 times.

For the US to create and grow - that needs to change.

You're off a bit in your years, you'd have to go back to the 50's or 60's to find CEOs making 40-50 times that of their workers. In the 80's it was 500 times and now it's much, much worse.

 

[Saigon]

You're off a bit in your years, you'd have to go back to the 50's or 60's to find CEOs making 40-50 times that of their workers. In the 80's it was 500 times and now it's much, much worse.

Possibly so, but I was quoting this text.

How would you like to be making $200,000 a year today after 25 years on the job? Well, if you started with the pay of an average worker 25 years ago that's what you'd be making today---if you got the same kind of raises that CEOs of American companies got for the past 25 years! The average compensation of a CEO in 1980 was about 40 times that of the average worker in his company. Today it is more than 500 times! If your pay had kept up with his, you would be making more than $200,000 this year. Of course, that didn't happen, did it? So let's see what actually did happen to the average American worker's pay over the past 25 years of the Reagan-Bush economic regime..

Wages in America: The Rich Get Richer

 

[Unkotare]

Regardless, I'd much rather be poor in the US with a car, computer, a home and all the rest than sitting on a dusty street corner attempting to sell the milk from my one goat in order to buy my family food for the day.
.

So would I.

I was in Liberia last month, and saw people selling plastic buckets at traffic lights to get by...many looked like they hadn't eaten in days.

But the US and EU should hold loftier goals - if people work hard and use their money wisely, they should have a fair chance of owning that home, of becoming manager of their team at work, and maybe get their kids through university.

How many immigrants can say that is a realistic goal?

Legal immigrants to the US? Most of them.

 

[Unkotare]

You're off a bit in your years, you'd have to go back to the 50's or 60's to find CEOs making 40-50 times that of their workers. In the 80's it was 500 times and now it's much, much worse.

Possibly so, but I was quoting this text.

How would you like to be making $200,000 a year today after 25 years on the job? Well, if you started with the pay of an average worker 25 years ago that's what you'd be making today---if you got the same kind of raises that CEOs of American companies got for the past 25 years!

Wow, what a shocking revelation!

Compare the average salary for a starting pitcher for the Boston Red Sox 25 years ago with what they make today. Why, if your pay had gone up that much over the same period of time you'd be pretty well off! But guess what? If you are not a professional pitcher it doesn't make a damn bit of sense to make such a comparison.

 

[Saigon]

IGetIt -

That would depend on which variety of immigrant you're referring to.

I'm not sure what you mean by that.

As asylum seeker, refugee and migrant may all get off the plane at O'Hare with a license to practice medicine in their own country.

If you mean that some migrants are educated, speak English and are familiar with US culture and some are not, then I totally agree.

(Someone told me the other day that the best place in Helsinki to have a heart attack is a taxi, because most of the taxi drivers are Russian and Afghani doctors!)

Unkotare -

Can you try to keep the mindless spam to a minimum?

 

[Unkotare]

Unkotare -

Can you try to keep the mindless spam to a minimum?

Can you try to keep the going and fucking yourself to a maximum?

 

[zonly1]

Funny how this is occurring under a democrat. This is what happens when the government takes over the industry and free market.

try not to point out the obvious to slow coaches that showed up in the last 2 seconds of the game. you'll have to consider therapy at taxpayers expense. sarc//

 

[Saigon]

Funny how this is occurring under a democrat. This is what happens when the government takes over the industry and free market.

try not to point out the obvious to slow coaches that showed up in the last 2 seconds of the game. you'll have to consider therapy at taxpayers expense. sarc//

Speaking of slow coaches.....this change occured under Reagan.

Read on....

In 1979 the American worker's average hourly wage was equal to $15.91 (adjusted for inflation in 2001 dollars). By 1989 it had reached only $16.63/hour. That's a gain of only 7 cents a year for the entire Reagan decade.

But wait. Things get worse! By 1995 it had risen to only $16.71, or virtually no gain whatsoever over the 6 years between 1989 and 1995. During the great 'boom years' between 1995 and 2000 it rose briefly to $18.33 per hour. In other words, from 1979 to 2000, even before the most recent Bush recession, after more than two decades the American worker's average wages increased on average only 11.5 cents per hour per year! With nearly all of that coming in the five so-called 'boom' years of 1995-2000, and most of that lost once again in the last three years. And that includes for all workers, even those with college degrees.

The picture is worse for workers who had no college degree. That's more than 100 million workers, or 72.1% of the workforce. For them there was no 'boom of 1995-2000' whatsoever. Their average real hourly wages were less at the end of 2000 than they were in 1979! And since 2000 their wages have continued to slide further.

http://www.kyklosproductions.com/articles/wages.html

 

[zonly1]

Funny, you don't see most of the innovation and technology coming out of northeastern Europe these days. No, you see that coming out of the UNITED STATES and Eastern Asia. LOL

Our system is better as it gets people to innovate and to think, while Europe these days just hands them free shit.

Perhaps you need to look at the chart again.

What your system does is pour money into the hands of a rich elite.

If you think that encourages thinking and innovation, I'd be interested as to how that works.

btw, northeastern Europe? You mean Poland?

can you proof that or are you bloviating talking points

don't make assertion without proof as you require.

 

[zonly1]

Funny how this is occurring under a democrat. This is what happens when the government takes over the industry and free market.

try not to point out the obvious to slow coaches that showed up in the last 2 seconds of the game. you'll have to consider therapy at taxpayers expense. sarc//

Speaking of slow coaches.....this change occured under Reagan.

Read on....

In 1979 the American worker's average hourly wage was equal to $15.91 (adjusted for inflation in 2001 dollars). By 1989 it had reached only $16.63/hour. That's a gain of only 7 cents a year for the entire Reagan decade.

But wait. Things get worse! By 1995 it had risen to only $16.71, or virtually no gain whatsoever over the 6 years between 1989 and 1995. During the great 'boom years' between 1995 and 2000 it rose briefly to $18.33 per hour. In other words, from 1979 to 2000, even before the most recent Bush recession, after more than two decades the American worker's average wages increased on average only 11.5 cents per hour per year! With nearly all of that coming in the five so-called 'boom' years of 1995-2000, and most of that lost once again in the last three years. And that includes for all workers, even those with college degrees.

The picture is worse for workers who had no college degree. That's more than 100 million workers, or 72.1% of the workforce. For them there was no 'boom of 1995-2000' whatsoever. Their average real hourly wages were less at the end of 2000 than they were in 1979! And since 2000 their wages have continued to slide further.

Wages in America: The Rich Get Richer

you sound like a union minion, but keep bloviating and realize how union membership is decreasing in this country, try one city in California that realize this fact.

Do you know the way to San Jose?
2016 Obama’s America

 

[Two Thumbs]

]The Gini Index measures how wealth is collected and held.

There is no right or wrong formula to it, but I dare say most of us do want to live in a society with no incentives or rewards, but neither do many of us want to feel that we can not work our way up in the world.

Most developed capitalist societies are spread in a loose bunch from the Scandinavian nations at one end, towards Portugal and Japan at the other.

The US, however, is now miles off by itself, with countries like Iran and Jamaica for company.

What this shows is that the US is a society in which a massive proportion of wealth is held by the super rich. It may be an exaggeration to say that in resembles a feudal society with lords and ladies lazing around playing polo while the workers go off to fight wars, but it isn't far off.

In my opinion, this should be regarded as a national disgrace and embarassment. It in no way resembles the ideals upon which America is founded, IMO.

List of countries by income equality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is funny.

I'm supposed to be appalled by this I assume, but yet I am not.

The eu is ahead of us on that scale. MANY of those countries are now enjoying riots.
We are behind russia. A communist shit hole.



So, Thank you for reinforcing the idea that America is a great country b/c leftist need to produce crap like this to make it seem otherwise.

 

[Toro]

No.

Another way to look at it is the poverty rate relative to median income. America has a lot of wealthy people but the poor relative to the median income isn't much different compared to other places. The data is dated but I don't think it has changed much, at least not in America.

 

[Toro]

Regardless, I'd much rather be poor in the US with a car, computer, a home and all the rest than sitting on a dusty street corner attempting to sell the milk from my one goat in order to buy my family food for the day.
.

So would I.

I was in Liberia last month, and saw people selling plastic buckets at traffic lights to get by...many looked like they hadn't eaten in days.

But the US and EU should hold loftier goals - if people work hard and use their money wisely, they should have a fair chance of owning that home, of becoming manager of their team at work, and maybe get their kids through university.

How many immigrants can say that is a realistic goal?

In America? It's a realistic goal for many if not most immigrants.

 

[Saigon]

Toro -

That is an excellent and interesting graphic.

Based on that, I agree that the lives of the poor in the US relative to the median is in keeping with international norms...it's how that compares to the very rich that bothers me.

I have no problem with rich people getting richer, providing that wealth isn't being concentrated into the hands of a tiny elite, and in the US I think it is.

The top 1% of Americans control 35% of the wealth. The top 20% of Americans control 85% of the wealth.

This is extremely unhealthy, as it means 80% of Americans actually control very little.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Why do people think that the rich getting richer means the poor have less?

I don't understand this nonsense.

 

[Saigon]

Why do people think that the rich getting richer means the poor have less?

I don't understand this nonsense.

They don't.

In a healthy capitalist society, the creation of wealth means the entire society benefit somehow, either through wages or through indirect means, i.e. money used by consumers, invested or paid in taxes.

However, in a society where 20% of Americans control 85% of the wealth, what happens is that the other 80% of Americans see their wages stay the same while prices rise.

Wealth created goes to the 20% whose income in derived from share income, or whose salaries do actually go up.

Much of this is in the link above.

Also this one:

Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power

 

[Toro]

Funny, you don't see most of the innovation and technology coming out of northeastern Europe these days. No, you see that coming out of the UNITED STATES and Eastern Asia. LOL

Our system is better as it gets people to innovate and to think, while Europe these days just hands them free shit.

Perhaps you need to look at the chart again.

What your system does is pour money into the hands of a rich elite.

If you think that encourages thinking and innovation, I'd be interested as to how that works.

btw, northeastern Europe? You mean Poland?

The system creates the rich. Mark Zuckerberg is a billionaire at age 28.

There are economic studies making a positive link between innovation and becoming enormously wealthy. It's a reason why America leads the world in innovation.

 

[Steelplate]

Mr H -

You are right - more likely you are on welfare.

At the onset I took you for a reasonable and rational individual, yet you've turned out to be a most disappointing member of this discussion board. Thanks for vetting yourself- you saved me the trouble.

yeah...Mr. You SHALL CAPITALIZE the H is trying to make himself look reasonable...I'll tell you what H....when you stop thinking that everything that comes out of the mouth of a pro labor person is a Communist plot to overthrow America, perhaps we can have some real discourse with you guys.

until then keep listening to the Corporate sponsored media telling you that the workforce is the bad guy and the uber elite are saints.

 

[Toro]

Toro -

That is an excellent and interesting graphic.

Based on that, I agree that the lives of the poor in the US relative to the median is in keeping with international norms...it's how that compares to the very rich that bothers me.

I have no problem with rich people getting richer, providing that wealth isn't being concentrated into the hands of a tiny elite, and in the US I think it is.

The top 1% of Americans control 35% of the wealth. The top 20% of Americans control 85% of the wealth.

This is extremely unhealthy, as it means 80% of Americans actually control very little.

Unhealthy in what matter? America has always been like this and it has become the richest, most powerful nation on the planet.

I'm Canadian and have lived and traveled extensively in Europe, and there is definitely a difference in the American mindset. Unlike those places, there is much less resentment or suspicion of the wealthy here in America. There is a saying in Britain that when the boss left the plant in his car, the workers wanted to put a bomb underneath the car. In America, when the boss left the plant in his car, the workers wanted to be the boss. There was a poll about a decade ago which asked Americans if they thought they were in the top 2% of income in the country. 20% of the people thought they were and another 20% said they weren't but it was their goal to get there. That's a big reason why class isn't big issue here. The term "spread the wealth" is a loaded term in America, unlike most other Western nations. To me, the adulation of those who are successful is a reason why America is so great. Americans don't care if the rich get richer, or inequality rises, or the Gini co-efficient increases, or whatever, if they are advancing too. That's why Americans didn't care if the rich got richer faster under Reagan. The broad swath of Americans also advanced. It's a problem today because the average American hasn't advanced over the past decade. That's one reason why polls over the past few years have consistently shown support for increasing taxes on the wealthy.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Reaganism has been turning us into a banana republic for 30 years. Romney wants to make it WORSE. Pub dupes!!

There is no way that the economy could get any worse than it is under obama with out splitting the country up.
Just because Reagan brought America out of a democratic Carter recession doesn't me you have to be bitter and lie.