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Do you want to compare the US to Scandanavia? The Scandanavians are playing with a loaded deck. How about we send them several million immigrants apiece for some free handouts. Their economy will tank within a few years.
In the case of Finland you have a point, but Sweden and Denmark have more than their share of immigrants - try visiting Copenhagen's Nörrebro or Stockholms Rinkeby and you won't hear much Danish or Swedish spoken.
Why do you think our economies will tank....is it just wishful thinking?
For many of the expats that I have known who lived and worked in countries like Norway, Sweden and Finland, the welcome received was often superficial. Top jobs are reserved for the natives and even immigrants enjoy second class status. Often for the most qualified expats, the attitude is "get the job done and then please leave .... quickly". Friends who married natives never saw upward mobility as a possibility in those countries. So comparisons at the level you describe are not possible.
I don't entirely disagree with that...but did your friends speak Danish/Swedish etc?
Companies like Nokia work in English - and the CEO is Canadian. How bad can the bias be there?
I must disagree with the premise of the OP. While i understand that there may be a growing disparity between the uber-rich and everyone else, a serf economy is off base.
This country, and most others, were not affluent until decades after the world-wide Great Depression. Working class americans did not start to acquire any kind of economic prosperity until the 1950's. The decades following began to show a gradual accumulation of wealth and security. The gap between the lowest of the low and the middle has shrunk certainly.
Our "poor" are not all that destitute and they have safety nets. There is also opportunity to pull yourself out of poverty unless you feel sorry for yourself and give up.
Do you want to compare the US to Scandanavia? The Scandanavians are playing with a loaded deck. How about we send them several million immigrants apiece for some free handouts. Their economy will tank within a few years.
You base this info on what exactly? Did you read of this, or were you poor? Have you ever had it rough in THESE TIMES?
Can I ask what percentage of company top managers and executive officers are immigrants in those countries? Nokia I'm afraid is not representative as a whole.
. Do you really believe the Scandanavian countries will not suffer economiclly under the weight of tens of millions of illegal immigrants ? Seriously?
The US takes in more "legal" immigrants than all other countries combined, much less all the illegals. You are comparing apples to oranges.
I guess the OP would have called Steve Jobs a "serf" back in the mid '70's.
No, why?
What are you talking about?
I don't recall Steve Jobs spending much time as an employee at all.
Mr h.
What I have stated is fact, and there are a couple of American studies which confirm this.
This is probably why you find you can not reply to it sensibly.
Fact or opinion?I think it has been proven that this is not true.
It is increasingly true that the only wealthy people in the US were born that way.
Economic mobility is lower in the US than in most other developed countries.
Funny, you don't see most of the innovation and technology coming out of northeastern Europe these days. No, you see that coming out of the UNITED STATES and Eastern Asia. LOL
Our system is better as it gets people to innovate and to think, while Europe these days just hands them free shit.
Perhaps you need to look at the chart again.
What your system does is pour money into the hands of a rich elite.
If you think that encourages thinking and innovation, I'd be interested as to how that works.
btw, northeastern Europe? You mean Poland?
You are not "stuck" in the socioeconomic class in which you were born for life and in my humble opinion, America offers more opportunity to improve your status than most of the world.
IGetIt -
If it were 1955, I would agree with you. At that stage America really was the land of the free, and any person could work their way up in society.
You are not "stuck" in the socioeconomic class in which you were born for life and in my humble opinion, America offers more opportunity to improve your status than most of the world.
This seems to be a myth these days.
According to the 2007 "American Dream Report" study, "by some measurements" -- relative mobility between generations -- "we are actually a less mobile society than many other nations, including Canada, France, Germany and most Scandinavian countries. This challenges the notion of America as the land of opportunity.
Economic mobility - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
My guess is that the data on France, Germany, Canada and the Scandinavians is not so skewed by foreign invaders...in fact, it's not a guess.
]The Gini Index measures how wealth is collected and held.
There is no right or wrong formula to it, but I dare say most of us do want to live in a society with no incentives or rewards, but neither do many of us want to feel that we can not work our way up in the world.
Most developed capitalist societies are spread in a loose bunch from the Scandinavian nations at one end, towards Portugal and Japan at the other.
The US, however, is now miles off by itself, with countries like Iran and Jamaica for company.
What this shows is that the US is a society in which a massive proportion of wealth is held by the super rich. It may be an exaggeration to say that in resembles a feudal society with lords and ladies lazing around playing polo while the workers go off to fight wars, but it isn't far off.
In my opinion, this should be regarded as a national disgrace and embarassment. It in no way resembles the ideals upon which America is founded, IMO.
List of countries by income equality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
My guess is that the data on France, Germany, Canada and the Scandinavians is not so skewed by foreign invaders...in fact, it's not a guess.
Almost every country in Europe has very high levels of immigration, and I don't think they can be blamed for impeding economic mobility. (Finland does not, but Denmark and Sweden do have)
The reason that economic mobility has dropped in the US is largely because executive salaries rose 400% faster than the average salary - particularly Reagan.
It is hard to get ahead when your own salary drops relative to inflation, while those above you skyrocket.
The nation state is dead. There is no "U.S."
Regardless, I'd much rather be poor in the US with a car, computer, a home and all the rest than sitting on a dusty street corner attempting to sell the milk from my one goat in order to buy my family food for the day.
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Here is how you make serfs. The workers produce more and more for the owner, but the wages stay the same.
The Costs of Capitalism's Crisis: Who Will Pay? - YouTube
Regardless, I'd much rather be poor in the US with a car, computer, a home and all the rest than sitting on a dusty street corner attempting to sell the milk from my one goat in order to buy my family food for the day.
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So would I.
I was in Liberia last month, and saw people selling plastic buckets at traffic lights to get by...many looked like they hadn't eaten in days.
But the US and EU should hold loftier goals - if people work hard and use their money wisely, they should have a fair chance of owning that home, of becoming manager of their team at work, and maybe get their kids through university.
How many immigrants can say that is a realistic goal?
