Is the US becoming a serf economy

[editec]

Is the US becoming a serf economy

NO.

Want to know why not?

Because SERFS are taken care of by their masters.

 

[Douger]

YAWN..
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8qBQzcvIAE]God Bless America - Archie Bunker - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Saigon]

Douger -

That is a funny scene - but I've never bought into the argument that patriotism meant shutting up and doing what you are told.

 

[Decus]

What you haven't taken into consideration is the role of small and medium size companies in the economic health and well-being of a strong middle class. Legislation, taxation and regulation are making it far more difficult today to run a profitable operation. Much of this has been put on smaller businesses by "well-meaning" politicians at local, state and federal levels under the guise of the public "good". Increasingly the only companies that can make a profit are those that can operate economies of scale - the evil big companies (scary background music here). This started some forty years ago but has reached ridiculous levels of over-regulation under the past three presidents - BUT remember - it is being done at local and state levels as well.

Allow smaller companies to compete and wealth patterns change. For you kooks that love this kind of conspiracy theory, you have to look no further than your local government official to understand how this process began.

 

[Decus]

Thanks Matthew. Really not surprised that most of you have nothing to say.

 

[Saigon]

Decus -

I agree with you.

I do think US corporate taxes are too high relative to personal taxes - which are too low.

But having low tax on dividends does not help small businesses as much as it helps large businesses. And it is large businesses who fund both political parties to a very significant extent.

As for over-regulation - by and large, the US is less regulated than the EU. And yet the EU seems able to cope with far, far tighter environmental and health regulations than the US will ever have, and it does so without people complaining. I think that is a cop-out by US businesses.

It is not over-regulation that stops Ford or GM stop making great cars - it is a lack of innovation and a lack of ability to read markets. Toyota had a hybrid engine 10 years before US manufacturers had one.

 

[bripat9643]

Funny how this is occurring under a democrat. This is what happens when the government takes over the industry and free market.

Actually, the big change occured under Reagan.

I would agree that the situation hasn't improved under Democrat governments, though.

The only thing that happened under Reagan is that the rich began reporting more of their income because marginal rates were lowered. America's poor live better than the middle class in Europe. They own houses and cars which few people in Europe can afford.

 

[bripat9643]

A Pub DEPRESSION is not the time to raise taxes on the rich. Even the A-Holes that got us in this mess. Neither is O-care a serf thing.

I think this material shows that the wealthy in the US get an easier ride than they do in any other country on earth. Too easy.

I am pro-capitalist, pro-incentives and all for people earning the most they can in life, but I also believe wealthy people can pay a fair amount towards supporting the system that produces that wealth.

"The system" doesn't produce jack shit. All it does is obstruct wealth creation or get out of the way.

You're about as "pro-capitalist" as Karl Marx.

The average compensation of a CEO in 1980 was about 40 times that of the average worker in his company. Today it is more than 500 times.

Hollywood movie stars and athletes make more than most CEOs. Why don't liberals ever whine about that?

For the US to create and grow - that needs to change.

Based on what theory of economics? I know, it's called Marxism.

 

[Fordsflylow]

We're the worst we've been since the 20's- see VOODOO tax rates and my sig pp1. Obama is just starting to turn it around. A Pub DEPRESSION is not the time to raise taxes on the rich. Even the A-Holes that got us in this mess. Neither is O-care a serf thing.

If one reads the tripe of the con's here on the boards one would think that Obama should have been able to undo the decades of trickle-down bs economics in the past 3 years.

Yah sure!!

 

[Fordsflylow]

Reaganism has been turning us into a banana republic for 30 years. Romney wants to make it WORSE. Pub dupes!!

How did Reagan turn us into that?

My suggestion would be to brush up on your history AND rely on non-partisan or independent sources that are not aligned with any particular party. Obvious or otherwise! As if you shouldn't already know, the web has plenty of party line bs in which to wade through and a partisan agenda likely not obvious at first glimpse.

 

[Decus]

Decus -

I agree with you.

I do think US corporate taxes are too high relative to personal taxes - which are too low.

But having low tax on dividends does not help small businesses as much as it helps large businesses. And it is large businesses who fund both political parties to a very significant extent.

As for over-regulation - by and large, the US is less regulated than the EU. And yet the EU seems able to cope with far, far tighter environmental and health regulations than the US will ever have, and it does so without people complaining. I think that is a cop-out by US businesses.

It is not over-regulation that stops Ford or GM stop making great cars - it is a lack of innovation and a lack of ability to read markets. Toyota had a hybrid engine 10 years before US manufacturers had one.

Hello Saigon,

The health a country's middle class is largely in relation to the health of that country's SME sector (small and medium enterprise). The need of preserving, and growing that sector is of great importance to all democratic countries, new and old. The EU amoung others, has expressed this as one of the drivers for the future well-being of member countries. You certainly know about this but here is one of such example: SMEs

I'm not a big fan of large companies but for a different reason than is often expressed. The majority are slow lumbering beasts that have great difficulty changing course and react to changes in their environment, rather than planning for change. SMEs are typically more nimble and able to better respond to needs and trends.

The question of regulation regarding SMEs is very different than you describe. In Europe I have to operate my businesses largely based on national legislation. Comparing legislation at national levels your comparison works. If however you then add city, county, state regulations and taxes (because each of those three levels can tax and regulate in different ways) the picture is very different.

Politicians largely pay lip service to SMEs, but the realty is that they, like the middle class, have become beasts of burden to the political class.

 

[squeeze berry]

I must disagree with the premise of the OP. While i understand that there may be a growing disparity between the uber-rich and everyone else, a serf economy is off base.

This country, and most others, were not affluent until decades after the world-wide Great Depression. Working class americans did not start to acquire any kind of economic prosperity until the 1950's. The decades following began to show a gradual accumulation of wealth and security. The gap between the lowest of the low and the middle has shrunk certainly.

Our "poor" are not all that destitute and they have safety nets. There is also opportunity to pull yourself out of poverty unless you feel sorry for yourself and give up.

Do you want to compare the US to Scandanavia? The Scandanavians are playing with a loaded deck. How about we send them several million immigrants apiece for some free handouts. Their economy will tank within a few years.

 

[Fordsflylow]

Is the US becoming a serf economy

That's the plan. It's been going on since 2001. Republicans have been wildly successful. Their plan has worked.

And you are our most noteworthy bitch.

Taking the low road again I see.

 

[Fordsflylow]

Is the US becoming a serf economy

That's the plan. It's been going on since 2001. Republicans have been wildly successful. Their plan has worked.

Both party's appear to be in on it. The buck stops at the president's desk.

It does.

I don't think the Democrats can point the finger too much on this, because their party is also far too dependant on the interests of Goldman Sachs that they can claim to really represent the ordinary working American.

Not stating it is/was right...but....what other choice was there?

 

[Decus]

I must disagree with the premise of the OP. While i understand that there may be a growing disparity between the uber-rich and everyone else, a serf economy is off base.

This country, and most others, were not affluent until decades after the world-wide Great Depression. Working class americans did not start to acquire any kind of economic prosperity until the 1950's. The decades following began to show a gradual accumulation of wealth and security. The gap between the lowest of the low and the middle has shrunk certainly.

Our "poor" are not all that destitute and they have safety nets. There is also opportunity to pull yourself out of poverty unless you feel sorry for yourself and give up.

Do you want to compare the US to Scandanavia? The Scandanavians are playing with a loaded deck. How about we send them several million immigrants apiece for some free handouts. Their economy will tank within a few years.

For many of the expats that I have known who lived and worked in countries like Norway, Sweden and Finland, the welcome received was often superficial. Top jobs are reserved for the natives and even immigrants enjoy second class status. Often for the most qualified expats, the attitude is "get the job done and then please leave .... quickly". Friends who married natives never saw upward mobility as a possibility in those countries. So comparisons at the level you describe are not possible.

 

[Saigon]

Do you want to compare the US to Scandanavia? The Scandanavians are playing with a loaded deck. How about we send them several million immigrants apiece for some free handouts. Their economy will tank within a few years.

In the case of Finland you have a point, but Sweden and Denmark have more than their share of immigrants - try visiting Copenhagen's Nörrebro or Stockholms Rinkeby and you won't hear much Danish or Swedish spoken.

Why do you think our economies will tank....is it just wishful thinking?

 

[Saigon]

For many of the expats that I have known who lived and worked in countries like Norway, Sweden and Finland, the welcome received was often superficial. Top jobs are reserved for the natives and even immigrants enjoy second class status. Often for the most qualified expats, the attitude is "get the job done and then please leave .... quickly". Friends who married natives never saw upward mobility as a possibility in those countries. So comparisons at the level you describe are not possible.

I don't entirely disagree with that...but did your friends speak Danish/Swedish etc?

Companies like Nokia work in English - and the CEO is Canadian. How bad can the bias be there?

 

[Saigon]

Both party's appear to be in on it. The buck stops at the president's desk.

It does.

I don't think the Democrats can point the finger too much on this, because their party is also far too dependant on the interests of Goldman Sachs that they can claim to really represent the ordinary working American.

Not stating it is/was right...but....what other choice was there?

With TARP - not a lot, but I've been disappointed that the Obama administration seem to enjoy such a cosy relatonship with merchant banks. I'm not saying they should be an enemy, but I don't think executives from Goldman Sachs are ideal employees for the White House.

 

[Fordsflylow]

I must disagree with the premise of the OP. While i understand that there may be a growing disparity between the uber-rich and everyone else, a serf economy is off base.

This country, and most others, were not affluent until decades after the world-wide Great Depression. Working class americans did not start to acquire any kind of economic prosperity until the 1950's. The decades following began to show a gradual accumulation of wealth and security. The gap between the lowest of the low and the middle has shrunk certainly.

Our "poor" are not all that destitute and they have safety nets. There is also opportunity to pull yourself out of poverty unless you feel sorry for yourself and give up.

Do you want to compare the US to Scandanavia? The Scandanavians are playing with a loaded deck. How about we send them several million immigrants apiece for some free handouts. Their economy will tank within a few years.

You base this info on what exactly? Did you read of this, or were you poor? Have you ever had it rough in THESE TIMES?

 

[Fordsflylow]

It does.

I don't think the Democrats can point the finger too much on this, because their party is also far too dependant on the interests of Goldman Sachs that they can claim to really represent the ordinary working American.

Not stating it is/was right...but....what other choice was there?

With TARP - not a lot, but I've been disappointed that the Obama administration seem to enjoy such a cosy relatonship with merchant banks. I'm not saying they should be an enemy, but I don't think executives from Goldman Sachs are ideal employees for the White House.

I definitely agree with that! I never have liked geithner or his ilk.