CDZ Is the president the chief executive of the federal gov or not?

[JoeMoma]

Even Comey agrees that Trump had the authority to fire him. The president is the chief executive of the federal government. The attorney general reports to the president and is the head of the justice department. The head of the FBI reports to the deputy attorney general who reports to the attorney general.

In other words, the president is the boss. He has the authority to fire the head of the FBI. He also has the authority to give the head of the FBI orders.

So what is all this fuss about "obstruction of justice". Does the president not have the authority to order the head of the FBI to use prosecutory discretion, to lay off of one investigation and focus on others. The president obviously has the authority to tell ICE to lay off the dreamers when it comes to deportations. Doesn't the constitution give the president authority over the FBI. Is the president the boss or not?

Also, the president has the power to pardon. Trump could have simply pardoned Flynn and made the investigation a moot point.

The constitution gives congress the power to "check" the power of the president. If congress has the votes, the house can vote to impeach, and the senate can vote to convict based on any reasoning they choose. But until this is done, the president is the boss of the executive branch. The FBI seems to have decided on its own not to investigate the leaks that are known to be crimes. Instead, they are investigating Flynn before knowing even if there is a crime on his part. Is the president the boss of the executive branch or not? If he is, even if Trump ordered Comey to lay off the Flynn investigation, it's not criminal obstruction of justice, it's simply prosecutory discretion.

 

[Bleipriester]

Didn´t Trump say "I hope the investigation can be ended". That and nothing more? No order, no pressure, just a personal opinion. I don´t think that the President can stop investigations. Aren´t investigations required by the law and not by persons in the end? However, just an opinion. What´s going on in America? Has the state of law turned upside down? Not that Trump shouldn´t fuck off with his missiles, but this is really disturbing.

 

[forkup]

Even Comey agrees that Trump had the authority to fire him. The president is the chief executive of the federal government. The attorney general reports to the president and is the head of the justice department. The head of the FBI reports to the deputy attorney general who reports to the attorney general.

In other words, the president is the boss. He has the authority to fire the head of the FBI. He also has the authority to give the head of the FBI orders.

So what is all this fuss about "obstruction of justice". Does the president not have the authority to order the head of the FBI to use prosecutory discretion, to lay off of one investigation and focus on others. The president obviously has the authority to tell ICE to lay off the dreamers when it comes to deportations. Doesn't the constitution give the president authority over the FBI. Is the president the boss or not?

Also, the president has the power to pardon. Trump could have simply pardoned Flynn and made the investigation a moot point.

The constitution gives congress the power to "check" the power of the president. If congress has the votes, the house can vote to impeach, and the senate can vote to convict based on any reasoning they choose. But until this is done, the president is the boss of the executive branch. The FBI seems to have decided on its own not to investigate the leaks that are known to be crimes. Instead, they are investigating Flynn before knowing even if there is a crime on his part. Is the president the boss of the executive branch or not. If he is, even if Trump ordered Comey to lay off the Flynn investigation, it's not criminal obstruction of justice, it's simply prosecutory discretion.

-Obstruction of justice is defined quite broadly: it involves any conduct in which a person willfully interferes with the administration of justice.
That means influencing, obstructing, or impeding any kind of proceeding before a federal agency, department, court, or Congress
-It doesn't put in an exclusion based on the person's position.
- As to your claim it could simply be considered prosecutory discretion. Since Trump is both involved in the investigation as at the very least a person of interest and not directly involved as a representative of the justice department it seems a highly dubious claim.
- Even if all the legal hairsplitting is done and no criminal wrongdoing established, it would still be highly unethical.

 

[forkup]

Didn´t Trump say "I hope the investigation can be ended". That and nothing more? No order, no pressure, just a personal opinion. I don´t think that the President can stop investigations. Aren´t investigations required by the law and not by persons in the end? However, just an opinion. What´s going on in America? Has the state of law turned upside down? Not that Trump shouldn´t fuck off with his missiles, but this is really disturbing.

If the president of the United States says "I hope you can let this go" it is very hard to not be influenced. Especially considering he is the one that can fire you. If my boss says, " I hope you can stay late " I would seriously consider staying late. And believe me ,he isn't the boss of a country.

 

[JoeMoma]

Didn´t Trump say "I hope the investigation can be ended". That and nothing more. No order, nor pressure, just a personal opinion. I don´t think that the President can stop investigations. Aren´t investigations required by the law and not by persons in the end? However, just an opinion. What´s going on in America. Has the state of law upside down? Not that Trump shouldn´t fuck off with his missiles, but this is really disturbing.

I agree, what trump said as reported is not necessarily an order.

That being said, prosecutory discretion is used all the time. The justice department does not have the resources to investigate every possible crime. The also use discretion to decide when to end an investigation even in cases when the investigation could coutinue.

So is it obstruction of justice when he FBI decides not to investigate a known crime? If not, how can it be obstruction of justice for the president to tell the FBI to wrap a case up and end it? So even if Trump told Comey to lay off the Flynn investigation, that's not obstruction of justice.

 

[JoeMoma]

Didn´t Trump say "I hope the investigation can be ended". That and nothing more? No order, no pressure, just a personal opinion. I don´t think that the President can stop investigations. Aren´t investigations required by the law and not by persons in the end? However, just an opinion. What´s going on in America? Has the state of law turned upside down? Not that Trump shouldn´t fuck off with his missiles, but this is really disturbing.

If the president of the United States says "I can hope you let this go" it is very hard to not be influenced. Especially considering he is the one that can fire you. If my boss says, " I hope you can stay late " I would seriously consider staying late. And believe me ,he isn't the boss of a country.

The president had the constitutional authority to "influence" the head of the FBI. If not, what's the point in being president?

 

[JoeMoma]

Even Comey agrees that Trump had the authority to fire him. The president is the chief executive of the federal government. The attorney general reports to the president and is the head of the justice department. The head of the FBI reports to the deputy attorney general who reports to the attorney general.

In other words, the president is the boss. He has the authority to fire the head of the FBI. He also has the authority to give the head of the FBI orders.

So what is all this fuss about "obstruction of justice". Does the president not have the authority to order the head of the FBI to use prosecutory discretion, to lay off of one investigation and focus on others. The president obviously has the authority to tell ICE to lay off the dreamers when it comes to deportations. Doesn't the constitution give the president authority over the FBI. Is the president the boss or not?

Also, the president has the power to pardon. Trump could have simply pardoned Flynn and made the investigation a moot point.

The constitution gives congress the power to "check" the power of the president. If congress has the votes, the house can vote to impeach, and the senate can vote to convict based on any reasoning they choose. But until this is done, the president is the boss of the executive branch. The FBI seems to have decided on its own not to investigate the leaks that are known to be crimes. Instead, they are investigating Flynn before knowing even if there is a crime on his part. Is the president the boss of the executive branch or not. If he is, even if Trump ordered Comey to lay off the Flynn investigation, it's not criminal obstruction of justice, it's simply prosecutory discretion.

-Obstruction of justice is defined quite broadly: it involves any conduct in which a person willfully interferes with the administration of justice.
That means influencing, obstructing, or impeding any kind of proceeding before a federal agency, department, court, or Congress
-It doesn't put in an exclusion based on the person's position.
- As to your claim it could simply be considered prosecutory discretion. Since Trump is both involved in the investigation as at the very least a person of interest and not directly involved as a representative of the justice department it seems a highly dubious claim.
- Even if all the legal hairsplitting is done and no criminal wrongdoing established, it would still be highly unethical.

Unethical, perhaps......but the boss is the boss. Some may say it would be unethical for trump to pardon Flynn, yet no one questions that authority (that I know of).

 

[forkup]

Didn´t Trump say "I hope the investigation can be ended". That and nothing more? No order, no pressure, just a personal opinion. I don´t think that the President can stop investigations. Aren´t investigations required by the law and not by persons in the end? However, just an opinion. What´s going on in America? Has the state of law turned upside down? Not that Trump shouldn´t fuck off with his missiles, but this is really disturbing.

If the president of the United States says "I can hope you let this go" it is very hard to not be influenced. Especially considering he is the one that can fire you. If my boss says, " I hope you can stay late " I would seriously consider staying late. And believe me ,he isn't the boss of a country.

The president had the constitutional authority to "influence" the head of the FBI. If not, what's the point in being president?

I don't know. Run a country maybe? Preserve the constitution? A big part of that document is about not putting to much power in the hands of a single power.You seem to be asking for dictatorial powers for the president. After all if he can just order any legal issues to go away as long as he has the majority in both houses there's no limits on what he can do.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Even Comey agrees that Trump had the authority to fire him. The president is the chief executive of the federal government. The attorney general reports to the president and is the head of the justice department. The head of the FBI reports to the deputy attorney general who reports to the attorney general.

In other words, the president is the boss. He has the authority to fire the head of the FBI. He also has the authority to give the head of the FBI orders.

So what is all this fuss about "obstruction of justice". Does the president not have the authority to order the head of the FBI to use prosecutory discretion, to lay off of one investigation and focus on others. The president obviously has the authority to tell ICE to lay off the dreamers when it comes to deportations. Doesn't the constitution give the president authority over the FBI. Is the president the boss or not?

Also, the president has the power to pardon. Trump could have simply pardoned Flynn and made the investigation a moot point.

The constitution gives congress the power to "check" the power of the president. If congress has the votes, the house can vote to impeach, and the senate can vote to convict based on any reasoning they choose. But until this is done, the president is the boss of the executive branch. The FBI seems to have decided on its own not to investigate the leaks that are known to be crimes. Instead, they are investigating Flynn before knowing even if there is a crime on his part. Is the president the boss of the executive branch or not? If he is, even if Trump ordered Comey to lay off the Flynn investigation, it's not criminal obstruction of justice, it's simply prosecutory discretion.

Your spoiling the fun with facts. By this weekend the left will be onto the next outrage, like Trump gets 5 strawberries with his pancakes and everyone else gets one.

 

[Bleipriester]

Didn´t Trump say "I hope the investigation can be ended". That and nothing more? No order, no pressure, just a personal opinion. I don´t think that the President can stop investigations. Aren´t investigations required by the law and not by persons in the end? However, just an opinion. What´s going on in America? Has the state of law turned upside down? Not that Trump shouldn´t fuck off with his missiles, but this is really disturbing.

If the president of the United States says "I hope you can let this go" it is very hard to not be influenced. Especially considering he is the one that can fire you. If my boss says, " I hope you can stay late " I would seriously consider staying late. And believe me ,he isn't the boss of a country.

But in your comparison, you are watching TV in the evening and see your boss saying "I hope the work can be done this evening." Would you jump off the couch in fear of unemployment? And also consider separation of powers. Isn´t there a tool that can be used if you are fired for questionable reasons?

 

[JoeMoma]

Didn´t Trump say "I hope the investigation can be ended". That and nothing more? No order, no pressure, just a personal opinion. I don´t think that the President can stop investigations. Aren´t investigations required by the law and not by persons in the end? However, just an opinion. What´s going on in America? Has the state of law turned upside down? Not that Trump shouldn´t fuck off with his missiles, but this is really disturbing.

If the president of the United States says "I can hope you let this go" it is very hard to not be influenced. Especially considering he is the one that can fire you. If my boss says, " I hope you can stay late " I would seriously consider staying late. And believe me ,he isn't the boss of a country.

The president had the constitutional authority to "influence" the head of the FBI. If not, what's the point in being president?

I don't know. Run a country maybe? Preserve the constitution? A big part of that document is about not putting to much power in the hands of a single power.You seem to be asking for dictatorial powers for the president. After all if he can just order any legal issues to go away as long as he has the majority in both houses there's no limits on what he can do.

Clinton was impeached but not convicted because the senate did not have the will to convict him even though it was proved that he lied under oath. Martha Stewart spent a year in the pokey for lying to law enforcement.

The democrats in congress will circle the wagons for a democrat president. The republicans, not so much (for a republican president).

 

[Syriusly]

Even Comey agrees that Trump had the authority to fire him. The president is the chief executive of the federal government. The attorney general reports to the president and is the head of the justice department. The head of the FBI reports to the deputy attorney general who reports to the attorney general.

In other words, the president is the boss. He has the authority to fire the head of the FBI. He also has the authority to give the head of the FBI orders..

The President is the chief executive- and he is the boss of the Attorney General.

However- the first 'boss' of the Attorney General is the Constitution. The Attorney General has an obligation to follow the law- first- and the orders of the President second.

And the President is not the FBI's boss- he actually can't give orders to the FBI- orders to the FBI have to come from the Department of Justice.

And if the President of the United States asks the Director of the FBI to not pursue a criminal investigation- with the intent to block that investigation- that President would be guilty of obstruction of justice.

 

[Syriusly]

Didn´t Trump say "I hope the investigation can be ended". That and nothing more? No order, no pressure, just a personal opinion. I don´t think that the President can stop investigations. Aren´t investigations required by the law and not by persons in the end? However, just an opinion. What´s going on in America? Has the state of law turned upside down? Not that Trump shouldn´t fuck off with his missiles, but this is really disturbing.

If the president of the United States says "I can hope you let this go" it is very hard to not be influenced. Especially considering he is the one that can fire you. If my boss says, " I hope you can stay late " I would seriously consider staying late. And believe me ,he isn't the boss of a country.

The president had the constitutional authority to "influence" the head of the FBI. If not, what's the point in being president?

The point of being President is to lead our nation- not to try to protect your personal pals from criminal prosecution.

I don't know whether Trump tried to obstruct justice or not- but I do look forward to hearing Comey's testimony, and seeing Comey's notes- and if Trump has recordings of their conversations- lets hear them too.

 

[Syriusly]

Didn´t Trump say "I hope the investigation can be ended". That and nothing more? No order, no pressure, just a personal opinion. I don´t think that the President can stop investigations. Aren´t investigations required by the law and not by persons in the end? However, just an opinion. What´s going on in America? Has the state of law turned upside down? Not that Trump shouldn´t fuck off with his missiles, but this is really disturbing.

If the president of the United States says "I can hope you let this go" it is very hard to not be influenced. Especially considering he is the one that can fire you. If my boss says, " I hope you can stay late " I would seriously consider staying late. And believe me ,he isn't the boss of a country.

The president had the constitutional authority to "influence" the head of the FBI. If not, what's the point in being president?

I don't know. Run a country maybe? Preserve the constitution? A big part of that document is about not putting to much power in the hands of a single power.You seem to be asking for dictatorial powers for the president. After all if he can just order any legal issues to go away as long as he has the majority in both houses there's no limits on what he can do.

Clinton was impeached but not convicted because the senate did not have the will to convict him even though it was proved that he lied under oath. .

The Senate didn't have the will to convict Clinton for what was clearly a partisan political impeachment.

Yes- he did lie under oath. And yes- the Senate did not find that was an convictable offence.

 

[Syriusly]

Even Comey agrees that Trump had the authority to fire him. The president is the chief executive of the federal government. The attorney general reports to the president and is the head of the justice department. The head of the FBI reports to the deputy attorney general who reports to the attorney general.

In other words, the president is the boss. He has the authority to fire the head of the FBI. He also has the authority to give the head of the FBI orders.

So what is all this fuss about "obstruction of justice". Does the president not have the authority to order the head of the FBI to use prosecutory discretion, to lay off of one investigation and focus on others. The president obviously has the authority to tell ICE to lay off the dreamers when it comes to deportations. Doesn't the constitution give the president authority over the FBI. Is the president the boss or not?

Also, the president has the power to pardon. Trump could have simply pardoned Flynn and made the investigation a moot point.

The constitution gives congress the power to "check" the power of the president. If congress has the votes, the house can vote to impeach, and the senate can vote to convict based on any reasoning they choose. But until this is done, the president is the boss of the executive branch. The FBI seems to have decided on its own not to investigate the leaks that are known to be crimes. Instead, they are investigating Flynn before knowing even if there is a crime on his part. Is the president the boss of the executive branch or not. If he is, even if Trump ordered Comey to lay off the Flynn investigation, it's not criminal obstruction of justice, it's simply prosecutory discretion.

-Obstruction of justice is defined quite broadly: it involves any conduct in which a person willfully interferes with the administration of justice.
That means influencing, obstructing, or impeding any kind of proceeding before a federal agency, department, court, or Congress
-It doesn't put in an exclusion based on the person's position.
- As to your claim it could simply be considered prosecutory discretion. Since Trump is both involved in the investigation as at the very least a person of interest and not directly involved as a representative of the justice department it seems a highly dubious claim.
- Even if all the legal hairsplitting is done and no criminal wrongdoing established, it would still be highly unethical.

Unethical, perhaps......but the boss is the boss. Some may say it would be unethical for trump to pardon Flynn, yet no one questions that authority (that I know of).

Do you think that the President can just do whatever he wants? That anything he says goes? Like if he ordered the DOJ to arrest Nancy Pelosi tomorrow- because she was impeding his tax bill- could he do that legally?

 

[JoeMoma]

Didn´t Trump say "I hope the investigation can be ended". That and nothing more? No order, no pressure, just a personal opinion. I don´t think that the President can stop investigations. Aren´t investigations required by the law and not by persons in the end? However, just an opinion. What´s going on in America? Has the state of law turned upside down? Not that Trump shouldn´t fuck off with his missiles, but this is really disturbing.

If the president of the United States says "I can hope you let this go" it is very hard to not be influenced. Especially considering he is the one that can fire you. If my boss says, " I hope you can stay late " I would seriously consider staying late. And believe me ,he isn't the boss of a country.

The president had the constitutional authority to "influence" the head of the FBI. If not, what's the point in being president?

I don't know. Run a country maybe? Preserve the constitution? A big part of that document is about not putting to much power in the hands of a single power.You seem to be asking for dictatorial powers for the president. After all if he can just order any legal issues to go away as long as he has the majority in both houses there's no limits on what he can do.

Clinton was impeached but not convicted because the senate did not have the will to convict him even though it was proved that he lied under oath. .

The Senate didn't have the will to convict Clinton for what was clearly a partisan political impeachment.

Yes- he did lie under oath. And yes- the Senate did not find that was an convictable offence.

Tell Marth Stewart that it was a political impeachment. It would be just as true to say it was a partisan political acquittal since Clinton clearly broke the law and others have served jail time for doing the same.

 

[Syriusly]

If the president of the United States says "I can hope you let this go" it is very hard to not be influenced. Especially considering he is the one that can fire you. If my boss says, " I hope you can stay late " I would seriously consider staying late. And believe me ,he isn't the boss of a country.

The president had the constitutional authority to "influence" the head of the FBI. If not, what's the point in being president?

I don't know. Run a country maybe? Preserve the constitution? A big part of that document is about not putting to much power in the hands of a single power.You seem to be asking for dictatorial powers for the president. After all if he can just order any legal issues to go away as long as he has the majority in both houses there's no limits on what he can do.

Clinton was impeached but not convicted because the senate did not have the will to convict him even though it was proved that he lied under oath. .

The Senate didn't have the will to convict Clinton for what was clearly a partisan political impeachment.

Yes- he did lie under oath. And yes- the Senate did not find that was an convictable offence.

Tell Marth Stewart that it was a political impeachment. .

I have no clue what the hell you are saying- Martha Stewart?

Last I checked- she wasn't impeached.

 

[JoeMoma]

Even Comey agrees that Trump had the authority to fire him. The president is the chief executive of the federal government. The attorney general reports to the president and is the head of the justice department. The head of the FBI reports to the deputy attorney general who reports to the attorney general.

In other words, the president is the boss. He has the authority to fire the head of the FBI. He also has the authority to give the head of the FBI orders.

So what is all this fuss about "obstruction of justice". Does the president not have the authority to order the head of the FBI to use prosecutory discretion, to lay off of one investigation and focus on others. The president obviously has the authority to tell ICE to lay off the dreamers when it comes to deportations. Doesn't the constitution give the president authority over the FBI. Is the president the boss or not?

Also, the president has the power to pardon. Trump could have simply pardoned Flynn and made the investigation a moot point.

The constitution gives congress the power to "check" the power of the president. If congress has the votes, the house can vote to impeach, and the senate can vote to convict based on any reasoning they choose. But until this is done, the president is the boss of the executive branch. The FBI seems to have decided on its own not to investigate the leaks that are known to be crimes. Instead, they are investigating Flynn before knowing even if there is a crime on his part. Is the president the boss of the executive branch or not. If he is, even if Trump ordered Comey to lay off the Flynn investigation, it's not criminal obstruction of justice, it's simply prosecutory discretion.

-Obstruction of justice is defined quite broadly: it involves any conduct in which a person willfully interferes with the administration of justice.
That means influencing, obstructing, or impeding any kind of proceeding before a federal agency, department, court, or Congress
-It doesn't put in an exclusion based on the person's position.
- As to your claim it could simply be considered prosecutory discretion. Since Trump is both involved in the investigation as at the very least a person of interest and not directly involved as a representative of the justice department it seems a highly dubious claim.
- Even if all the legal hairsplitting is done and no criminal wrongdoing established, it would still be highly unethical.

Unethical, perhaps......but the boss is the boss. Some may say it would be unethical for trump to pardon Flynn, yet no one questions that authority (that I know of).

Do you think that the President can just do whatever he wants? That anything he says goes? Like if he ordered the DOJ to arrest Nancy Pelosi tomorrow- because she was impeding his tax bill- could he do that legally?

No, not anything he wants, but anything he wants under the authority of the constitution. Just as Comey had the athority to tell the investigators under his athority to stop working on case A and move on to case B. Trump being by chain of command above Comey should be able to direct Comey to tell his investigators to stop working on case A and move to case B. There is nothing in the constitution to prevent the president from micro-managing those under his chain of authority.

 

[JoeMoma]

The president had the constitutional authority to "influence" the head of the FBI. If not, what's the point in being president?

I don't know. Run a country maybe? Preserve the constitution? A big part of that document is about not putting to much power in the hands of a single power.You seem to be asking for dictatorial powers for the president. After all if he can just order any legal issues to go away as long as he has the majority in both houses there's no limits on what he can do.

Clinton was impeached but not convicted because the senate did not have the will to convict him even though it was proved that he lied under oath. .

The Senate didn't have the will to convict Clinton for what was clearly a partisan political impeachment.

Yes- he did lie under oath. And yes- the Senate did not find that was an convictable offence.

Tell Marth Stewart that it was a political impeachment. .

I have no clue what the hell you are saying- Martha Stewart?

Last I checked- she wasn't impeached.

No she was not impeached. she spent 5 months in jail and 2 years on probation for lying to federal law enforcement. Clinton was impeached for lying under oath. Do you have a clue now?

 

[JoeMoma]

Didn´t Trump say "I hope the investigation can be ended". That and nothing more? No order, no pressure, just a personal opinion. I don´t think that the President can stop investigations. Aren´t investigations required by the law and not by persons in the end? However, just an opinion. What´s going on in America? Has the state of law turned upside down? Not that Trump shouldn´t fuck off with his missiles, but this is really disturbing.

If the president of the United States says "I can hope you let this go" it is very hard to not be influenced. Especially considering he is the one that can fire you. If my boss says, " I hope you can stay late " I would seriously consider staying late. And believe me ,he isn't the boss of a country.

The president had the constitutional authority to "influence" the head of the FBI. If not, what's the point in being president?

The point of being President is to lead our nation- not to try to protect your personal pals from criminal prosecution.

I don't know whether Trump tried to obstruct justice or not- but I do look forward to hearing Comey's testimony, and seeing Comey's notes- and if Trump has recordings of their conversations- lets hear them too.

The constitution gives the president pardon power. As previous presidents have proven, the president can use that power as he wishes to protect his pals. However, presidents usually wait til their final days in office to protect their pals for political reasons.

Ford protected Nixon from prosecution with his pardon. Since the president can use his pardon pen to protect his pals, what difference does it make if he stalls an investigation instead. In fact, stalling an investigation is a lesser way of protecting a pal than a pardon. The next administration can't overturn a pardon, but it can restart an investigation.