CDZ Is the president the chief executive of the federal gov or not?

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by JoeMoma, May 17, 2017.

  1. JoeMoma
    Online

    JoeMoma Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2014
    Messages:
    7,887
    Thanks Received:
    1,034
    Trophy Points:
    290
    Ratings:
    +5,925
    Even Comey agrees that Trump had the authority to fire him. The president is the chief executive of the federal government. The attorney general reports to the president and is the head of the justice department. The head of the FBI reports to the deputy attorney general who reports to the attorney general.

    In other words, the president is the boss. He has the authority to fire the head of the FBI. He also has the authority to give the head of the FBI orders.

    So what is all this fuss about "obstruction of justice". Does the president not have the authority to order the head of the FBI to use prosecutory discretion, to lay off of one investigation and focus on others. The president obviously has the authority to tell ICE to lay off the dreamers when it comes to deportations. Doesn't the constitution give the president authority over the FBI. Is the president the boss or not?

    Also, the president has the power to pardon. Trump could have simply pardoned Flynn and made the investigation a moot point.

    The constitution gives congress the power to "check" the power of the president. If congress has the votes, the house can vote to impeach, and the senate can vote to convict based on any reasoning they choose. But until this is done, the president is the boss of the executive branch. The FBI seems to have decided on its own not to investigate the leaks that are known to be crimes. Instead, they are investigating Flynn before knowing even if there is a crime on his part. Is the president the boss of the executive branch or not? If he is, even if Trump ordered Comey to lay off the Flynn investigation, it's not criminal obstruction of justice, it's simply prosecutory discretion.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    Last edited: May 17, 2017
  2. Bleipriester
    Online

    Bleipriester Freedom!

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2012
    Messages:
    17,448
    Thanks Received:
    1,147
    Trophy Points:
    260
    Location:
    Syrian troll farm
    Ratings:
    +4,523
    Didn´t Trump say "I hope the investigation can be ended". That and nothing more? No order, no pressure, just a personal opinion. I don´t think that the President can stop investigations. Aren´t investigations required by the law and not by persons in the end? However, just an opinion. What´s going on in America? Has the state of law turned upside down? Not that Trump shouldn´t fuck off with his missiles, but this is really disturbing.
     
  3. forkup
    Offline

    forkup Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2016
    Messages:
    2,125
    Thanks Received:
    269
    Trophy Points:
    130
    Ratings:
    +931
    -Obstruction of justice is defined quite broadly: it involves any conduct in which a person willfully interferes with the administration of justice.
    That means influencing, obstructing, or impeding any kind of proceeding before a federal agency, department, court, or Congress
    -It doesn't put in an exclusion based on the person's position.
    - As to your claim it could simply be considered prosecutory discretion. Since Trump is both involved in the investigation as at the very least a person of interest and not directly involved as a representative of the justice department it seems a highly dubious claim.
    - Even if all the legal hairsplitting is done and no criminal wrongdoing established, it would still be highly unethical.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    Last edited: May 17, 2017
  4. forkup
    Offline

    forkup Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2016
    Messages:
    2,125
    Thanks Received:
    269
    Trophy Points:
    130
    Ratings:
    +931
    If the president of the United States says "I hope you can let this go" it is very hard to not be influenced. Especially considering he is the one that can fire you. If my boss says, " I hope you can stay late " I would seriously consider staying late. And believe me ,he isn't the boss of a country.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    Last edited: May 17, 2017
  5. JoeMoma
    Online

    JoeMoma Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2014
    Messages:
    7,887
    Thanks Received:
    1,034
    Trophy Points:
    290
    Ratings:
    +5,925
    I agree, what trump said as reported is not necessarily an order.

    That being said, prosecutory discretion is used all the time. The justice department does not have the resources to investigate every possible crime. The also use discretion to decide when to end an investigation even in cases when the investigation could coutinue.

    So is it obstruction of justice when he FBI decides not to investigate a known crime? If not, how can it be obstruction of justice for the president to tell the FBI to wrap a case up and end it? So even if Trump told Comey to lay off the Flynn investigation, that's not obstruction of justice.
     
  6. JoeMoma
    Online

    JoeMoma Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2014
    Messages:
    7,887
    Thanks Received:
    1,034
    Trophy Points:
    290
    Ratings:
    +5,925
    The president had the constitutional authority to "influence" the head of the FBI. If not, what's the point in being president?
     
  7. JoeMoma
    Online

    JoeMoma Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2014
    Messages:
    7,887
    Thanks Received:
    1,034
    Trophy Points:
    290
    Ratings:
    +5,925
    Unethical, perhaps......but the boss is the boss. Some may say it would be unethical for trump to pardon Flynn, yet no one questions that authority (that I know of).
     
  8. forkup
    Offline

    forkup Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2016
    Messages:
    2,125
    Thanks Received:
    269
    Trophy Points:
    130
    Ratings:
    +931
    I don't know. Run a country maybe? Preserve the constitution? A big part of that document is about not putting to much power in the hands of a single power.You seem to be asking for dictatorial powers for the president. After all if he can just order any legal issues to go away as long as he has the majority in both houses there's no limits on what he can do.
     
  9. Weatherman2020
    Offline

    Weatherman2020 Educating Libs Since 1978

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    26,694
    Thanks Received:
    5,225
    Trophy Points:
    350
    Location:
    Left Coast, Classified
    Ratings:
    +28,585
    Your spoiling the fun with facts. By this weekend the left will be onto the next outrage, like Trump gets 5 strawberries with his pancakes and everyone else gets one.
     
  10. Bleipriester
    Online

    Bleipriester Freedom!

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2012
    Messages:
    17,448
    Thanks Received:
    1,147
    Trophy Points:
    260
    Location:
    Syrian troll farm
    Ratings:
    +4,523
    But in your comparison, you are watching TV in the evening and see your boss saying "I hope the work can be done this evening." Would you jump off the couch in fear of unemployment? And also consider separation of powers. Isn´t there a tool that can be used if you are fired for questionable reasons?
     

Share This Page