Is the economic Pie FIXED in size..Democrats believe so...

[Erand7899]

The pie doesn't get larger when one group garners a larger piece.

The pie gets larger when the economy becomes productive.

The pie is not fixed regardless of the size of each slice.

If I make more than Obama feels is "enough", the pie doesn't shrink for the rest of the country.

The slice of everyone else's pie at a fixed point in time must shrink if your slice grows.

People don't live in a fixed point in time, and that makes your statement moot. The pie is ever changing, and the only thing constant about that pie is that government, at every level, continually increases the size of their slice, even thousgh government has never contributed to building the pie.

 

[8537]

8537: Because at a fixed point in time, barring debt, a tax cut is the equivalent of a transfer payment.

This isn't left wing economics. It's an accounting identity.

Toddsterpatriot: How does the transfer of more of my own money into my wallet cause your slice to shrink?

8537: Wait what? I didn't say that.

Yes you did, right here....

The slice of everyone else's pie at a fixed point in time must shrink if your slice grows.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...-size-democrats-believe-so-4.html#post5874245

I can't begin to imagine the confusion that led you to such a conclusion. A transfer payment does not change the size of the pie, only how big the pieces are.

I can't begin to imagine the confusion that led you to such a conclusion.

You can't imagine how your confusion led me to such a conclusion? LOL!

Yes, I can't imagine that. A transfer payment does not change the size of the pie.

 

[8537]

If I make more than Obama feels is "enough", the pie doesn't shrink for the rest of the country.

The slice of everyone else's pie at a fixed point in time must shrink if your slice grows.

People don't live in a fixed point in time, and that makes your statement moot. The pie is ever changing, and the only thing constant about that pie is that government, at every level, continually increases the size of their slice, even thousgh government has never contributed to building the pie.

That would come as quite a surprise to all the people in charge when the government's slice of the pie shrank.

as to "never contributed to building the pie", you don't think protection of intelllectual property rights contributes to building the pie? OK then.

 

[ilia25]

Is this too complicated folks?

The PIE has grown as relates to USA gross domestic product and I haven't evidently got anyone to refute it?
So why the efforts by the government to as in Obama's words "re-distribute the wealth"?

Are you really that dense? Everyone knows that the economy increases in size. It does not mean that we cannot benefit from some redistribution of wealth.

 

[8537]

Is this too complicated folks?

The PIE has grown as relates to USA gross domestic product and I haven't evidently got anyone to refute it?
So why the efforts by the government to as in Obama's words "re-distribute the wealth"?

Are you really that dense?

Trust me, S/he is that dense.

 

[ilia25]

If I make more than Obama feels is "enough", the pie doesn't shrink for the rest of the country.

The slice of everyone else's pie at a fixed point in time must shrink if your slice grows.

People don't live in a fixed point in time, and that makes your statement moot.

OK, make it a year. Or 10 years -- the pie has a finite size over any given period. That is why it matters a lot how big a share everyone gets.

 

[ilia25]

Those who equip themselves with skills and knowledge are worth more to an employer, and therefore, earn higher wages and salaries.

And it is deeply unfair toward those less talented at equipping themselves with skills and knowledge.

There must be some inequality to motivate people. But when people make 100s times the average salary, they are clearly rewarded for being lucky rather than hard-working.

 

[Dick Tuck]

Make the Pie Higher

I think we all agree, the past is over.
This is still a dangerous world.
It's a world of madmen
And uncertainty
And potential mental losses.

Rarely is the question asked
Is our children learning?
Will the highways of the internet
Become more few?
How many hands have I shaked?

They misunderestimate me.
I am a pitbull on the pantleg of opportunity.
I know that the human being and the fish
Can coexist.

Families is where our nation finds hope
Where our wings take dream.
Put food on your family!
Knock down the tollbooth!
Vulcanize society!
Make the pie higher!
Make the pie higher!

Source: Richard Thompson

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I can't begin to imagine the confusion that led you to such a conclusion. A transfer payment does not change the size of the pie, only how big the pieces are.

I can't begin to imagine the confusion that led you to such a conclusion.

You can't imagine how your confusion led me to such a conclusion? LOL!

Yes, I can't imagine that. A transfer payment does not change the size of the pie.

Then why did you mention it?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The slice of everyone else's pie at a fixed point in time must shrink if your slice grows.

People don't live in a fixed point in time, and that makes your statement moot.

OK, make it a year. Or 10 years -- the pie has a finite size over any given period. That is why it matters a lot how big a share everyone gets.

Say I made $60,000 last year. I work really hard this year and increase my share to $66,000.
How did I reduce your share of the pie?

 

[8537]

I can't begin to imagine the confusion that led you to such a conclusion.

You can't imagine how your confusion led me to such a conclusion? LOL!

Yes, I can't imagine that. A transfer payment does not change the size of the pie.

Then why did you mention it?

Because barring increased debt, a tax cut for one person is effectively a transfer payment.

Neither change the size of the pie.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yes, I can't imagine that. A transfer payment does not change the size of the pie.

Then why did you mention it?

Because barring increased debt, a tax cut for one person is effectively a transfer payment.

Neither change the size of the pie.

I'm only interested in your claim that if my piece of the pie increases, the amount available to the rest of the country shrinks.

 

[healthmyths]

The pie doesn't get larger when one group garners a larger piece.

The pie gets larger when the economy becomes productive.

The pie is not fixed regardless of the size of each slice.

If I make more than Obama feels is "enough", the pie doesn't shrink for the rest of the country.

The slice of everyone else's pie at a fixed point in time must shrink if your slice grows.

See now you are FUDGING! Logically at a nanosecond in GDP nanosecond growth a fixed point of time you are right!

It is the macro concept not the micro slice of time I was suggesting.
Yes you are right .. in a very small way.
Over 40 years of working my slice hasn't gotten much bigger then when I started. But compared to where I was at 25 to where I'm now.. the overall slice relative to age 25 is much bigger!
That is my point. IT IS NOT finite!
We don't have to be like animals fighting over a leg bone!
Go find a fresh piece of meat on your own and stop being a Democrat snarling, unhappy dog!

 

[8537]

Over 40 years of working my slice hasn't gotten much bigger then when I started.

Somehow, I don't find that surprising.


And for the fourth time (try answering this time) : Who said national income is fixed?

 

[ilia25]

People don't live in a fixed point in time, and that makes your statement moot.

OK, make it a year. Or 10 years -- the pie has a finite size over any given period. That is why it matters a lot how big a share everyone gets.

Say I made $60,000 last year. I work really hard this year and increase my share to $66,000.
How did I reduce your share of the pie?

Not necessarily my share, and not by you personally -- but if your annual income increased faster than GDP, then there must be someone, whose annual income increased by a smaller percentage than GDP. Or someone whose income had actually come down. In either case, your share of the pie increased at the expense of that individual(s).

 

[healthmyths]

Is this too complicated folks?

The PIE has grown as relates to USA gross domestic product and I haven't evidently got anyone to refute it?
So why the efforts by the government to as in Obama's words "re-distribute the wealth"?

Are you really that dense? Everyone knows that the economy increases in size. It does not mean that we cannot benefit from some redistribution of wealth.

So WEALTH is finite?
Because that is what you want is to re-define ownership.

What is yours is now mine in your perspective.

fine.. I'll take what I have now OUT of the PIE and you can take from the rest.

Sound familiar like "off shore accounts"? Like nearly $1 trillion off shore because what I created you now want?

So if owners of the pieces of pie decide "this re-distribution of wealth" sounds like someone is stealing what I own.. I don't want to be a part"...
And that is what has happened more frequently in this country!
People giving up their citizenship because they are being forced to give up their wealth!

Sounds like instead of trying to hold on to a fistful of sand with a closed hand..
wouldn't it be better to have an open hand and be able to get more?

But of course if you think as evidently most Democrats do, that people are like a pack of mindless dogs, snarling snipping tearing at fighting between themselves for a scrap when working together they could find an even bigger piece... that's what you seem to be..i.e. a scrapping snarling animal.. rather then an human being... maybe a Neanderthal at best!

 

[8537]

Who said the pie is fixed?

Is this too complicated folks?

The PIE has grown as relates to USA gross domestic product and I haven't evidently got anyone to refute it?
So why the efforts by the government to as in Obama's words "re-distribute the wealth"?

Are you really that dense? Everyone knows that the economy increases in size. It does not mean that we cannot benefit from some redistribution of wealth.

So WEALTH is finite?

Yes, of course - in fact, you spent a lot of silly math earlier attaining the exact value of our wealth.

So if owners of the pieces of pie decide "this re-distribution of wealth" sounds like someone is stealing what I own.. I don't want to be a part"...
And that is what has happened more frequently in this country!
People giving up their citizenship because they are being forced to give up their wealth!

Mr Galt called. He wants his shtick back.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The American middle class is shrinking. Dramatically.

Is that a good thing? No? Yes?

Is the American middle class shrinking because the Rich are overtaxed? No? Yes?

GIVE ME FACTS about that! Anyone can make the claim I provided FACTS where are yours?

Here let me help you!


For a two parent, four person household, the average income is between $51,000 to $123,000. The median is $81,000.

Average home is worth $231,000 with $17,600 in payments a year. That comes out to $1466.67 a month in housing costs.

The average home is around 2,300 square feet.
On cars, the typical family spends $12,400 a year on two cars.
That median income family puts away around $2,600 per year for retirement.
$14,200 a year on clothes, food, utilities, entertainment, and other living expenses.
18% of income goes towards some form of debt – auto loans, mortgage, credit cards, etc.

» What is the Average Middle Class?


There are roughly 151 million workers in America. Of that number, about 1/2 are considered "middle class" (75,000,000ish).
that number, 16 million of them belong to a labor union. So, 80% of middle class people are non-union, while the other 20% are union. I

How many Americans are in the middle class

Argue with the Wall St. Journal and Pew Research:

The middle class — defined as households with between two-thirds and double the nation’s median income — has shrunk considerably over the past few decades, a decline that has been greatly exacerbated by the recession and housing bust.

In 2011, the nation’s middle class income bracket held 51% of households, down from 61% in the 1970s, according to this report released today by the Pew Research Center. Over the same period, both the upper and lower income brackets have grown.

Lost Decade for Shrinking Middle Class - Real Time Economics - WSJ

 

[rdean]

Republicans constantly spew what they imagine what Democrats believe.

You can't get Republicans to believe the words of their own leaders, but they will believe nonsense they make up about Democrats?????

 

[ilia25]

Is this too complicated folks?

The PIE has grown as relates to USA gross domestic product and I haven't evidently got anyone to refute it?
So why the efforts by the government to as in Obama's words "re-distribute the wealth"?

Are you really that dense? Everyone knows that the economy increases in size. It does not mean that we cannot benefit from some redistribution of wealth.

So WEALTH is finite?
Because that is what you want is to re-define ownership.

What is yours is now mine in your perspective.

fine.. I'll take what I have now OUT of the PIE and you can take from the rest.

Sound familiar like "off shore accounts"? Like nearly $1 trillion off shore because what I created you now want?

So if owners of the pieces of pie decide "this re-distribution of wealth" sounds like someone is stealing what I own.. I don't want to be a part"...
And that is what has happened more frequently in this country!
People giving up their citizenship because they are being forced to give up their wealth!

Sounds like instead of trying to hold on to a fistful of sand with a closed hand..
wouldn't it be better to have an open hand and be able to get more?

But of course if you think as evidently most Democrats do, that people are like a pack of mindless dogs, snarling snipping tearing at fighting between themselves for a scrap when working together they could find an even bigger piece... that's what you seem to be..i.e. a scrapping snarling animal.. rather then an human being... maybe a Neanderthal at best!

1) Whether you think the redistribution of wealth is beneficial is beside you original point -- which is that Obama/Democrats are unaware of wealth creation. And which is obviously untrue.
2) Every single developed country in the world does a lot of wealth redistribution. You might think that they are populated by Neanderthals, but it does not reflect good on you.