Debate Now Is the Cultural Paradigm Shifting Along with the Demographic Changes?

Discussion in 'Debate Now - Structured Discussion Forum' started by EvilEyeFleegle, Nov 2, 2017.

  1. EvilEyeFleegle
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    EvilEyeFleegle Gold Member

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    This is not the politics forum...

    This is not the place to vent about the evil Democrats---if you took the trouble to read the preceding posts you might see that your post does not fit in..either as to the topic or as to tone.

    If you have some points to be made..please do so cogently...and with some degree of regard as to the topic....thank you.
     
  2. Wuwei
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    Wuwei Gold Member

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    I really don't understand the reasoning behind some of your points. When you talk of the right and left, both sides can be subdivided into R/L politicians, R/L media and the masses of R/L people, etc. I don't know if you distinguish between them or not. I'm middle left, and I believe some principles of both R and L. Nobody here sees the middle ground..

    I am able to engage in friendly conversation on principles with strong conservatives in real life, but when I see posts like #55 above, I see that debate on this forum is futile. I think that you are seeing things too much in black and white. My feeling is that the left and right masses are being controlled by the wealthy -- lobbyists, heavy donors, mega-corporations. To me citizens United is a tragedy, and the name is even ironic. Both R and L masses of people should demand that money be taken out of politics.

    Edit: sorry I posted this before I saw the previous post.
     
  3. EvilEyeFleegle
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    EvilEyeFleegle Gold Member

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    I wonder..does the Left..or the Right...control anything? Influence, sure..I see that. But control? Being widely read..I find all voices are available...for the discerning reader. I think that Wuwei hit the nail on the head..confirmation bias. People today actively seek it..and those who hold power see it as a very handy leash indeed.

    BTW..I know..personally..many conservatives in academia--I think that many of the ideals labeled 'liberal' are shared by many conservatives--but they get lost in the wording..and in the fear, valid or not, that they will be mocked by their peers, if it were known. The same holds true for liberals who have conservative leanings..but don't know it.

    No one has any time for the pragmatic politician with a heart. He/she are frozen out of the political process....while the panderers and manipulators are celebrated.

    As for the voice of the right..one need only look to talk radio and sites such as this..to see that there is indeed a voice and a loud one, at that.

    Oh, and the scientific community? Well..my people, as it were..have a lot of outright contempt for those who politicize science..Left or Right. Right or wrong..the far right is seen as anti-science--deniers of fact and outright anti-intellectual. The Left is no better..with half-baked theories being accepted as known fact. Politics in general get short shrift...but I do know conservatives in the hard sciences...but to a man or woman..they accept climate change as real..even though they may argue as to origins. Most of the rest of us are busy thinking of ways to adapt to coming times...how being more important than why.
     
  4. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    If you can rebut my point of view go for it. I have not been uncivil to anybody here regardless of their point of view, nor have I denigrated anybody;s argument. And the reasoning behind my post is that I believe what I said to be true. And I'm pretty sure I can back it up with credible sources if it becomes sufficienty important to do so.
     
  5. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    When I make generalized observations they are generalized. There are always exceptions. But as I posted to Wuwei, I am pretty sure I can support my observations with credible sources if it should become important enough to do so

    I would be the first to acknowledge that those who lean left are not going to see it as I see it. And probably are also confident in their point of view.
     
  6. Wuwei
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    Wuwei Gold Member

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    I don't have any kids so I don't keep up on the teachers union or education problems except where I read about it in the local paper – barely subsistence level in pay, and unfair advancement based on their student test scores.

    I know little about why you think left extremism affects scientific institutions, the entertainment industry, or social media entities or exactly how it matters.

    As far as news media, I'm sure MSNBC pundits turn your stomach as much as Fox pundits turn mine. I don't watch either. I have no opinion on the other media except that one of the fairest is NPR and my local news station.

    And yes there are all kinds of disagreements on social issues such as abortion, welfare, etc.

    But to me there is a much larger issue. It is how the wealthy influence society. I referred to that in my prior post but you didn't respond. The issues of the OP, demographics changing culture, misses many important overriding things that are changing society.

    Let me repeat it here: lobbyists, heavy donors, mega-corporations, and Citizens United all enable big secret money to control the government. Money can and does buy elections, and keep those that accept it in power. The executive branch is populated with too many billionaires. Sure, if we don't like it vote them out. But the campaign process is as vicious as the people on the USMB. Dirty campaigning with big bucks works. Both left and right are guilty. The people fall for memes from the wealthy that are repeated loud and often by many pundits. These memes are manipulating culture more than demographics. This country will turn into an Oligarchy or has already, depending on how you define it.

    If we really want a populist democracy we are doing it wrong.

    This is going outside the OP which is concerned about the demographic influence, and I apologize for highjacking it. EvilEyeFleegle if you want me to end it just say the word.
     
  7. Asclepias
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    Asclepias Diamond Member

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    As we move towards a "White Minority" country will our cultural paradigm shift significantly?

    Or...will the prevailing mainstream culture prove strong enough to shape the new demographics to conform to the "old" values?

    I will say the answer is no. I dont see a drastic change for a number of reasons.
    1. The "culture" is made up of things taken from different cultures already.
    2. The concepts of freedom, democracy, etc are not white concepts. Matter of fact whites borrowed those concepts from other cultures.
    3. The only thing that could possibly change is that we get better.

    Is a non-white majority America still "America"?

    Yes. Whites have never been the ones that made america america. One can say that without the Black race america would still be a penal colony.
     
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  8. jwoodie
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    jwoodie Gold Member Supporting Member

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    The cultural shifts which have been taking place in America have very little to do with its racial or ethnic composition. In fact, the diversity of cultures led to a unique consensus about what it meant to be an American. As a result, we were to come together to fight two world wars and finally outlaw legal discrimination against minority populations.

    However, this consensus has been unraveling over the past 50 years. Perhaps due to the unprecedented economic benefits we inherited after WW2, we started believing that any problem could be solved by throwing enough money at it. The most egregious examples of this have been social welfare programs which have created generations of dysfunctional family units.

    Compounding this problem has been a concerted effort by radical leftists to infiltrate our educational institutions and media for the purpose of undermining America and its former consensus on societal values. Their main achievement so far has been to convince a sizeable minority of Americans that their country is not a land of freedom and opportunity, but rather a vast right-wing conspiracy to deny them their rights and keep them in poverty.
     
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  9. Asclepias
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    Asclepias Diamond Member

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    Its kind of amusing and a little bit sad to read the thoughts of some whites. This country was founded on racism and this has not abated to date. The face of racism may have changed but make no mistake it was here at the beginning, prevalent during the middle, and will probably result in a civil war in the end. The mantra from whites has always been "be patient" when discussing full equality/freedom/justice etc. The amusing part is your comment about coming together to fight two world wars. We didnt come together. Did you catch amnesia or do you really not remember the racism displayed by the US towards Black soldiers and officers?. The sad part is watching white folks and realizing they will never get it.

    Segregation in the Armed Forces During World War II | African American History Blog | The African Americans: Many Rivers to Cross
     
  10. jwoodie
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    jwoodie Gold Member Supporting Member

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    It was my understanding that Black Americans were just as patriotic as White Americans in supporting and fighting World War II, despite the discrimination they were subjected to.

    Thanks for clearing up that misconception.
     

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