Debate Now Is the Cultural Paradigm Shifting Along with the Demographic Changes?

Discussion in 'Debate Now - Structured Discussion Forum' started by EvilEyeFleegle, Nov 2, 2017.

  1. Olde Europe
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    Olde Europe Diamond Member

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    You know, what I am trying to say is, take the almost inexplicable venom, as expressed here, seriously:

    That, plus the ability to use political correctness to either destroy people or bludgeon them into submission in a way only a dedicated Fascist or Nazi could love, is maybe the most significant cultural shift.​

    That's Nazis or fascists destroying people, or bludgeoning them into submission, using PC as a weapon.

    And no, unless the alt-right can mobilize major parts of the army, there will be no armed White insurrection with any hope of succeeding. Rather, there might be - remember they're fighting against Nazis and fascists - all kinds of isolated events, ranging in severity from McVeigh to the Malheur Wildlife Refuge occupation and pipe bombs sent to "liberals".

    Other than that, it's going to be the same old same old, voter suppression and gerrymandering, with staggering results, in conjunction with "White grievance" campaigns mobilizing the "Deplorables" - namely, racists, nativists, and sexists - all riding under the banner of resistance against the oppressive, destructive rule of PC.


    That is to say, the most marked cultural shift in a still-white majority country I expect to be the re-normalization of speech formerly suppressed by PC speech codes in the name of, you know, self-defense and freedom. The fight against the unbearable imposition that everyone, even those "not like us", be treated with respect, their humanity acknowledged, will be a major characteristic of things to come, or so the anti-PC venom seems to suggest. The first signs of same are already there in the form of advocacy that business owners should be allowed to discriminate against would-be clients at will. Segregated lunch counters, anyone?

    And yes, the plutocracy will smile over all this, because as long as the white majority is most frightened by the rise of minorities and consumed by the fight against PC, the root evil will have an even freer hand to rule.
     
  2. Wuwei
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    Wuwei Gold Member

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    Yes, I know what you are trying to say. There are a lot of stirrings and undercurrents of alt-right mobilization, but the left is capable too. There is the defunct SDS and the current Antifa, and a host of less vigorous groups like unions and stronger feminism. North Korea, North Vietnam, and Afghanistan proved a strong sense of injustice is a powerful motivator against a stronger military. (Note to others reading this: I don't want revolution of any sort in the US. Let's all try to chill out.)

    Many express fear of the Utopian vision pushed by liberals, while liberals fear the same for the conservatives. I believe the tea party and Bannon visions would lead to terrible unintended consequences. Corporations are gaining more control over lower education, prisons, etc. Outsourcing social entities to corporations motivated by profit is a bad idea. The irony is that Bannon wants to see corporate “Judo-Christian values” that were present in times of lore. But he is sadly mistaken that the current mega corporations will abide by that.

    Yes, anti-PC is a growing weapon but that is only one facet of the problem. I live near where Scientology is rampant. Investigative reporters of the local papers found deep deep loyalty to the crap that they were brainwashed to believe. Then there is Jim Jones who managed a mass suicide of 900 of his followers.

    People are not immune to brainwashing and it is running rampant in political ads, tweets, facebook etc. I fear that it is working in the US population. I truly fear a dystopia is afoot, but I don't know what kind yet because the US is teetering on an unstable political system right now.

    .
     
  3. Olde Europe
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    Olde Europe Diamond Member

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    Yep. I read it all attentively, and it seems we're pretty much on the same page on all the issues touched, with the exception of any impending left-wing dystopia. You don't think feminists and Antifa will seriously sway the population, do you? I mean, there's MeToo, running on "Don't grab her by the whatevers without an invitation," which is where the nation already is, and now a few powerful men who thought themselves invincible will have a comeuppance. Antifa is marginalized, has a brawl here or there, and just about everyone rejects them. The same goes for Scientology, influential though they may be within the "church".

    Have you actually taken the time to scroll through the Democrats' party platform? That's all so common sense, unsurprising and boring, no one gets through that without nodding off several times.

    I hold, the so-called "fear of the Utopian vision pushed by liberals" expressed by the right is bogus - Bullshit in Harry's sense - a fear of a carefully crafted fiction that goes by the name of "socialism", and part of the larger ploy to befuddle the rubes. Certainly, there is nothing else out there that would match the stridency of the anti-PC venom AND would dramatically change the trajectory of the nation's development so as to cause a seismic cultural shift. There patently isn't, as far as I can see.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2018
  4. Wuwei
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    Wuwei Gold Member

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    A few clarifications... The Antifa, feminists, a latent SDS, etc of today will not sway the country as they are now. But it is an indication that stronger groups of some sort may gain a larger following in the future if the liberal populace is motivated enough. My reference to Scientology and Jim Jones were meant only to be examples that American Exceptionalism doesn't mean the US people are not beyond serious brainwashing and shooting their assumed exceptionalism in the foot.

    Yes I scrolled through the Democrat platform. I couldn't get through the table of contents before I nodded off. It would be better if the platform were more succinct so they could more easily turn it into sound bites and memes.

    This is my thinking:
    • A liberal dystopia would result from a much more aggressive (revolutionary) stance against the 1%, and the mega corporations through boycotts, demonstrations at stockholders meetings, larger and more frequent public demonstrations, and voter enfranchisement. Because perception of the economy is so fragile the bubble would burst and the economy could collapse. It would take a major restructuring to install the many pages of the Democratic platform and lift the country back to “Exceptionalism” and “being great again”.

    • A conservative dystopia would involve privatization of many more social programs. Corporations will continue to merge into mega-corporations and be less responsible as regulations are eliminated. The US will then become a nation of the corporations, by the corporations, and for the corporations. The hoi polloi will be completely at their mercy.

    • The much more likely case: the government pendulum will continue swinging left and right, and we will drift wherever the winds of media and memes take us, and die a slow death as China and Russia assume the global role that we had while we continue to bicker about abortion, the war on Christmas, and welfare queens.

     
  5. Olde Europe
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    Okay, thanks a lot.

    The liberal dystopia I can't see happening, for anyone to the left of Senator Sanders would have serious problems with recruiting and fundraising, not to mention to get on any billboard outside of New York City or San Francisco. Moreover, taking corporate America to account wouldn't be much of a dystopia at all, and the fear they would collapse the U.S. economy is unfounded. Remember OWS? Moreover, any left-wing tendency would not shut out the thinking of the rest of the world to celebrate their own backwardness unchallenged, so there also wouldn't be much of a "dystopia". A decade from now, I would predict that none of that left-wing dystopia will have materialized.

    The conservative dystopia I can actually see; it's just Koch & Co. winning, as they so often do. The hoi polloi are at their mercy, for the most part already. A decade from now, the Koch Bros. might be dead, but they or their ilk will still rule, and probably with fewer impediments.

    The likely case is, well, likely, for the next decade, unless the anti-PC drive wins out. That is not because the U.S. will die, but because the U.S. is a problem-preserving spectacle of a plutocratic "democracy". Nothing ever gets solved, because a persisting problem presents a fund-raising opportunity and ammunition against the respective other side. Gun rights, abortion, gay marriage, female equality, you name it, keeping the wound open benefits one major party, or both parties, and thus it's being kept open. I can see that happening.

    ...........................................

    I guess, this thread has run its course for now, hasn't it? You have the last word, if you want it, and don't forget to switch off the lights when you leave. Oh, and thanks for the gentle and interesting interaction. Much appreciated.
     
  6. Wuwei
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    Wuwei Gold Member

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    I think I'm more paranoid than you. I fear the it-will-never-happen-here complacency. Yes, it was a refreshing dialog. At this point I will wait and see, and keep my sanity largely by getting the news from the Borowitz Report and the Onion.

    I avidly get TV political and national perspectives from The Late Show with Colbert, Last Week Tonight with John Oliver, and The Daily Show with Trevor Noah.
    Example of John Oliver on HBO if you have not seen him:
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1

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