is the continuing sell off BHO's fault?

they are jumping ship because of the pending depression or recession...they see businesses dropping in business... they also are involved because they can not get as much credit...the banks have retreated in to their shells, even with the bqailout money and are not lending to others.

OK so it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that if people who depend on portfolio income would rather get 85% of their money out now rather than 72% or less of their money out after BHO is elected?
 
the continued sell off on Wall street despite the bail out may be because of BHO's predicted win on election day.

BHO has stated that he wants to raise capital gains taxes to Clinton era highs of 28% a full 13% higher than they are today. he did modify his position to 20% but that was becasue Bill O'Reilly steered him into saying it. No one believes BHO will stop at 20 % and some believe he won't stop at 28% (yours truly included)

So does it make sense for investors with portfolios not tied up in retirement accounts to sell now and get 85% of their money or sell later and get 72% or less of their money?

Can you say "NO Brainer" ?

Perceptive.

Soemwhat overstated, I think, since the capital gains would rise from 15% to 20%, but still, you're on to something, I think.

Now can you tell me why banks are still reluctant to loan money?
 
Perceptive.

Soemwhat overstated, I think, since the capital gains would rise from 15% to 20%, but still, you're on to something, I think.

Now can you tell me why banks are still reluctant to loan money?

Are they?

Home sales took a jump

The Associated Press: September new home sales rise by 2.7 percent

WASHINGTON (AP) — Sales of new homes recorded an unexpected increase in September as median home prices dropped to the lowest level in four years, the Commerce Department reported Monday.

Sales of new single-family homes rose by 2.7 percent last month to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 464,000 homes, Commerce said. Economists had expected sales would drop from the August level.


I assume people got loans for these houses.
 
Are they?

Home sales took a jump

The Associated Press: September new home sales rise by 2.7 percent

WASHINGTON (AP) — Sales of new homes recorded an unexpected increase in September as median home prices dropped to the lowest level in four years, the Commerce Department reported Monday.

Sales of new single-family homes rose by 2.7 percent last month to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 464,000 homes, Commerce said. Economists had expected sales would drop from the August level.


I assume people got loans for these houses.
How many banks and financial institutions have gone belly up this past year, let alone the last few months?

money is limited now, after trillions evaporated with the housing fall.
 
OK so it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that if people who depend on portfolio income would rather get 85% of their money out now rather than 72% or less of their money out after BHO is elected?


most of the market is in 401k's, they are tax exempt, even for trades.

The Democratic tax plan HELPS the average business man/woman in America.

here is part of it, the tax plan is continued at the link..
Obama on Taxes

• Income Taxes: Senator Barack Obama (D-Ill.) would hold most income tax rates steady, making permanent the Bush tax cuts for the vast majority of individual taxpayers. With those cuts scheduled to expire in 2011, he would allow rates for households making more than $250,000 (or individuals making more than roughly $200,000) to return to earlier levels. Earners who now pay today's maximum 35% rate would see their top marginal rate go back to the 36.9% in effect in the Clinton years, for example.

• Estate Taxes: Obama proposes setting inheritance taxes permanently at 45% on estates over $3.5 million.

• Capital-Gains Taxes: Obama would again limit any increases in capital-gains rates, as well as taxes on dividends, to households making more than $250,000 or individuals bringing in more than $200,000. For those folks, he proposes increasing the maximum rate to somewhere between 20% and 25%.

• New Tax Cuts: Obama has proposed a handful of new tax credits and other adjustments aimed at helping struggling families, students, and others. He would institute a refundable tax credit of 6.2% of earnings, up to a maximum of $8,100, for example, along with a refundable mortgage credit equal to 10% of loan payments for homeowners who don't itemize their deductions. Students would be eligible for a $4,000 annual credit to help defray college costs, while Obama would eliminate income taxes for seniors making less than $50,000.

• Economic Stimulus: Obama has proposed giving businesses a $3,000 tax credit this year and next for every net new job they create to help jump-start the stalled economy. He would also temporarily eliminate taxes on unemployment benefits and calls for legislation that would allow struggling individuals to take up to $10,000 from their IRA or 401(k) retirement accounts this year and next without paying the normal tax penalty for early withdrawals.

• Business Taxes: Obama has proposed eliminating all capital-gains taxes on investments in small business. He would also make permanent the R&D tax credit and credits for renewable energy production. But elsewhere, he would eke more revenue out of the corporate sector: He would like eliminate loopholes that he says favor oil and gas companies, for one. And he favors shifting the tax code to favor companies that create jobs in the U.S. and increase taxes on those that move jobs overseas.

Obama on Jobs

• Job Creation: Obama wants to steer $50 billion into an economic stimulus. He proposes that $25 billion go into a "Jobs and Growth Fund" to prevent cuts in road and bridge maintenance, and to fund school repair. He says this effort will save more than 1 million jobs.

• 'Green' Jobs: Obama wants to create 5 million new "green jobs" and invest $150 billion over 10 years in biofuels and fuel infrastructure, plug-in hybrids, commercial-scale renewable energy, low-emissions coal plants, and a new digital electricity grid. He also wants to expand federal transportation investments to the tune of $60 billion over 10 years, which he says will create 2 million jobs.

• Unemployment: Obama is calling for a temporary expansion of the unemployment insurance program for those who have exhausted their current benefits. He'd also extend unemployment insurance to a bigger pool of workers, including some part-time workers.

• Trade: Obama says he opposes new deals that lack labor and environmental safeguards. Obama wants to renegotiate the North American Free Trade Agreement with Canada and Mexico so it has more favorable terms for U.S. workers. He wants to expand the Trade Adjustment Assistance program, which trains workers who lose their jobs because of offshoring.

• Labor Rights: Obama wants to strengthen the ability of workers to organize unions through what's known as the Employee Free Choice Act (EFCA). The bill allows workers to join a union if a simple majority sign authorization cards instead of holding an election. He has won the support of the two major U.S. labor federations, the AFL-CIO and Change to Win, whose leaders say EFCA is their top legislative priority.

continued at....Election 2008: Obama on the Economic Issues - BusinessWeek
 
How many banks and financial institutions have gone belly up this past year, let alone the last few months?

money is limited now, after trillions evaporated with the housing fall.

So then who lent the money to those people who bought homes in Sept?
 
Are they?

Home sales took a jump

The Associated Press: September new home sales rise by 2.7 percent

WASHINGTON (AP) — Sales of new homes recorded an unexpected increase in September as median home prices dropped to the lowest level in four years, the Commerce Department reported Monday.

Sales of new single-family homes rose by 2.7 percent last month to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 464,000 homes, Commerce said. Economists had expected sales would drop from the August level.

I assume people got loans for these houses.

Well, I am not privy to what's happening behind the scenes, but the reports I keep getting is that bnaks are not loaning money to EACH OTHER.

I was rather hoping you could explain that to me, to be honest.
 
So then who lent the money to those people who bought homes in Sept?


Who knows? Maybe financial institutions, maybe a local bank, or maybe one of the big national banks that got the bail out money? I don't know and neither do you...right?

happy to see the increase though!
 
also, the price of homes FELL 16.9%....that ain't good for the most of us, who own homes.

That depends. If you bought your home and watched its value go up up up and didn't mortgage mortgage mortgage, you're probably going to be OK. Even if you're home value has gone down, you will likely recoup value and see a net gain in appreciation. You can at least ask for a real estate tax adjustment and you might get lucky and pay a little less.


If you got equity happy and are now upside down, you may never realize a gain on your home at least not for many years to come.
 
That depends. If you bought your home and watched its value go up up up and didn't mortgage mortgage mortgage, you're probably going to be OK. Even if you're home value has gone down, you will likely recoup value and see a net gain in appreciation. You can at least ask for a real estate tax adjustment and you might get lucky and pay a little less.


If you got equity happy and are now upside down, you may never realize a gain on your home at least not for many years to come.

We paid cash for our home, 2 years ago this december. we negotiated $40k less than the asking price. We are not upside down in a mortgage ONLY because we paid cash. We still have lost a GREAT DEAL in value due to the near criminal, if not criminal, negligence of others.
 
We paid cash for our home, 2 years ago this december. we negotiated $40k less than the asking price. We are not upside down in a mortgage ONLY because we paid cash. We still have lost a GREAT DEAL in value due to the near criminal, if not criminal, negligence of others.

You haven't "lost" anything unless you sell your home at a loss.
 
You haven't "lost" anything unless you sell your home at a loss.

we want to sell it....found a home on a lake we want to buy.... we are trapped at this point unless willing to take a huge loss...now and even 10 years from now, it will be a loss if things continue as they have and inventory of homes doesn't sell down... and foreclosures continue.

this crisis has made us who paid cash recently and the other 60% of homeowners who will be upsidedown on their mortgages by the end of this year... imobile, unable to move for a job, for illness in a family, or for ones own perogative etc....

That's all....it stinks bigtime, and we had nothing to do with this mess, created by others...but we will deal, no worries....maybe a renter will come along...?

Care
 
the continued sell off on Wall street despite the bail out may be because of BHO's predicted win on election day.

BHO has stated that he wants to raise capital gains taxes to Clinton era highs of 28% a full 13% higher than they are today. he did modify his position to 20% but that was becasue Bill O'Reilly steered him into saying it. No one believes BHO will stop at 20 % and some believe he won't stop at 28% (yours truly included)

So does it make sense for investors with portfolios not tied up in retirement accounts to sell now and get 85% of their money or sell later and get 72% or less of their money?

Can you say "NO Brainer" ?

No brainer would be my description of you.

The American economy does better under Democratic presidents. It's a fact.
 
No brainer would be my description of you.

The American economy does better under Democratic presidents. It's a fact.

Rather than ad hominem statements would you please put forth something a little more contributory?

A simple answer to the question:

If you were dependent on portfolio income, would you rather take 85% of it now or substantially less after a BHO administration's tax hikes?
 
You can see the panic all over the world. That must mean Obama is standing for President of the Whole of the World. Yes, that's it of course.

First off, To put it simple, yes. When the US stock marker falls, the rest of the world follows, so Yes investors all around the world are in some part factoring in an Obama Presidency in prices as we speak.

Second, The "Obama Effect" is just one part of the reasons for the sell off. I am in no way trying to say it is the only cause. However it would be foolish of you, and terribly naive as well, to actually believe that the Prospects of an America ran by Obama, Pelosi, and Reed. Would not give some investors puase, and thereby help add to the selling that is going on.

The Fact is, Obama has said he will increase:

Capitol Gains Tax
Dividends Taxes
Cooperate Taxes.
Income taxes on those making over 200k

All these things are bound to have a negative effect on the Market. It is perfectly reasonable to assume some of the selling that is going on now, is people banking on an Obama presidency, and trying to make their profit now, before all those taxes increase.

Any Economist worth a damn says Raising Taxes, particularly Capitol Gains, and Dividends taxes. While the Market is in a recession, is unwise, and will lead to further sell off, slowed or negative growth, and a deepening of the problem.

This is what I have been saying until I am blue in the face, and being called anything from a moron to a Racist for saying. Obama's proposed Tax policies, and spending programs, will be a disaster. Which will lead to a Much larger increase in the size of Debt than even Bush has.

Imagine a 1.2 trillion dollar budget Deficit Each year.

Mark my words America. If Obama wins, this will be a reality.
 
Last edited:
How'd the Dow do today? Yesterday I saw it was way up and of course I gave Obama credit for that. Because what else can we logically do?
 
How'd the Dow do today? Yesterday I saw it was way up and of course I gave Obama credit for that. Because what else can we logically do?

Logically you would have to credit multiple factors on any given day for a move up or Down.

Which is exactly what I said.

The Obama effect is but one small part of the over all big picture.

However I am guessing you know that Ravi, but would rather engage in cheap one liners and jokes than an actual discussion.
 

Forum List

Back
Top