Is The American Experiment Over?

[Caligirl]

Y'all know that Obama is more interested in tackling climate change than McCain, right?

 

[dilloduck]

Y'all know that Obama is more interested in tackling climate change than McCain, right?

oh ya---green --everything green--we're gonna bet the farm on green. Green jobs, green cars, green corporations even. I wonder who owns them ? I wonder what green costs ?

 

[Caligirl]

We'll never know if we don't try.

It makes sense to me (has for years) that climate change is an opportunity for job growth. And development of new tech startups.

 

[AVG-JOE]

We'll never know if we don't try.

It makes sense to me (has for years) that climate change is an opportunity for job growth. And development of new tech startups.

I'm with you CG. Let's hope that we're smart enough to not build the new wind farms in Mexico!

-Joe

 

[dilloduck]

We'll never know if we don't try.

It makes sense to me (has for years) that climate change is an opportunity for job growth. And development of new tech startups.

I think since it's going to cost a gazillion dollars we might wanna go into with a little more knowledge that Al Gore has. Renewable energy is a far cry from obsessing about climate change.

 

[GigiBowman]

oh ya---green --everything green--we're gonna bet the farm on green. Green jobs, green cars, green corporations even. I wonder who owns them ? I wonder what green costs ?

Green is just another marketing concept for earning green.

 

[Caligirl]

I think since it's going to cost a gazillion dollars we might wanna go into with a little more knowledge that Al Gore has. Renewable energy is a far cry from obsessing about climate change.

Where do you get a gazillion dollars?

The Bush Tax break in 2000 would have built enough wind farms to power the nations electrical grid 100%.

Doesn't address transportation, but puts it into perspective.

 

[dilloduck]

Green is just another marketing concept for earning green.

oh man--bits and pices have filtered through but there are a few elites poised to get RICH as hell selling green and taxing pollution. Al Gore--Soros--etc.

 

[dilloduck]

Where do you get a gazillion dollars?

The Bush Tax break in 2000 would have built enough wind farms to power the nations electrical grid 100%.

Doesn't address transportation, but puts it into perspective.

And people will just say " please put one in my yard " ?

 

[Caligirl]

Farmers are putting them in fields etc, and get credits or cash for the watts. Farming is compatible with wind turbines and the money for the electricity is competitive to crops.

Nuclear works too, as does solar and geothermal and tidal.

 

[foggedinn]

The party is over. The economic crisis is just beginning. What's coming will make the great depression look like a mild economic downturn. No matter who is elected, we are about to become a third world country armed with 20-30 thousand nuclear warheads.

The rest of the world won't appreciate the fact that we dragged them down with us. Overtly or covertly, they will all turn against us.

Maybe God will have mercy on us, no one else will.

 

[Missourian]

The party is over. The economic crisis is just beginning. What's coming will make the great depression look like a mild economic downturn. No matter who is elected, we are about to become a third world country armed with 20-30 thousand nuclear warheads.

The rest of the world won't appreciate the fact that we dragged them down with us. Overtly or covertly, they will all turn against us.

Maybe God will have mercy on us, no one else will.

"Expect the best, plan for the worst, and prepare to be surprised."

- Denis Waitley​

 

[GigiBowman]

Berkey water purifier: It will turn piss into delicious drinking water lol

Welcome to New millennium Concepts Ltd

 

[Care4all]

Berkey water purifier: It will turn piss into delicious drinking water lol

Welcome to New millennium Concepts Ltd

of course it purifies every bad thing BUT ARSENIC which we have in our well water...

 

[seth1492]

I think that America is ever evolving, but I only hope that it will continue to progress for the best. If we lose our moral traditions at the price of "social progress" we will lose everything. Progress doesn't mean that we have to shed all of our traditions to move forward. It always ticks me off when people act like moving forward means losing everything positive that got us there.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Berkey water purifier: It will turn piss into delicious drinking water lol

Welcome to New millennium Concepts Ltd

Let me know when you find one that will turn piss back into beer!

-Joe

 

[editec]

So the plan is we're all going to become subsistance farmers for the rest of our lives?

Man, are you guys in for a shock.

Sure with careful planning and a whole lot of supplies you can probably survive a period of anarchy and hard times. I do not doubt that for a minute.

But in the long run?

In the long run susistance farming is slow starvation. Most of you will be basically one disasterous weather event or one unforeseeable accident away from tragedy without the background civil society to fall back on.

Why do you suppose the moment the industrial revolution came to town, the rural areas depopulated and the cities filled with people willing to live in the slums rather than in the country?

Those people knew HOW to subsistence suvive off the land, and they couldn't WAIT to get a crappy factory job where they'd be worked to death in conditions that few of us can really imagine today.

Maintaining a civil industrialized society is worth the fight.

 

[AVG-JOE]

So the plan is we're all going to become subsistance farmers for the rest of our lives?

Man, are you guys in for a shock.

Sure with careful planning and a whole lot of supplies you can probably survive a period of anarchy and hard times. I do not doubt that for a minute.

But in the long run?

In the long run susistance farming is slow starvation. Most of you will be basically one disasterous weather event or one unforeseeable accident away from tragedy without the background civil society to fall back on.

Why do you suppose the moment the industrial revolution came to town, the rural areas depopulated and the cities filled with people willing to live in the slums rather than in the country?

Those people knew HOW to subsistence suvive off the land, and they couldn't WAIT to get a crappy factory job where they'd be worked to death in conditions that few of us can really imagine today.

Maintaining a civil industrialized society is worth the fight.

You are correct when you say that the industrial infrastructure we have is worth fighting for... It is the fight that scares people. I think the trick here is to keep oneself alive and protect what you can until the coming anarchy kills itself off.

I do think that the future of America lies in breaking up into sovereign regions or states where people have more control over their own lives. It would be nice to imagine America maintaining its map and its citizens actually tolerating the lifestyles of their neighbors; it would be nice to think the break-up could be done with the ballot; but optimism doesn't seem to be running high in either of those directions.

Even if Obama turns out to be the leader his most hopeful supporters believe he is, unless another leader emerges from American politics in 8 years, we are going to be back in the same divided and bickering spot or worse in 16.

-Joe

 

[Skull Pilot]

Not subsistence farming ed

You love the melodramatic extreme position don't you.

My point was that my wife and I are running our business and saving every dime we can for retirement. In that sense we are living what was the American dream. Now it seems to be Americans want the government to take care of them.

People blindly follow pols and trends, buying shit they can't afford and believe it's their right that someone else pick up the tab.

Personal responsibility be damned. You are called selfish if you want to keep the money you earn. You are not being neighborly if you don't shell out your money to bail out some dumb shit who mortgaged his home to the hilt to buy a boat.

Personally I would rather build my home on some acreage Take care of my dogs and horses, grow some of my own food because I believe in self reliance even if it is out of vogue.

And this whole "green" economy thing is bullshit.

If BHO or anyone really wanted a "green" economy they wouldn't be talking about all this ten year down the road shit.

They'd be talking about changing building codes to require solar hot water heaters, to require the use of insulated concrete building forms and passive solar designs and ground source heat pumps.

I could build a home today that would be so energy efficient that its carbon footprint would be 70% less than the average new home. I could do it with existing technology and not wait ten years for a wasteful government bureaucracy to tax me to get it done.

Pols don't want "green" technology, they want to say they do so that powerful people who invest in wind that happen to give shit loads of money to their campaigns can have their stock prices rise.

Green is just a new buzz word. Like commie used to be.

 

[GigiBowman]

Not subsistence farming ed

You love the melodramatic extreme position don't you.

My point was that my wife and I are running our business and saving every dime we can for retirement. In that sense we are living what was the American dream. Now it seems to be Americans want the government to take care of them.

People blindly follow pols and trends, buying shit they can't afford and believe it's their right that someone else pick up the tab.

Personal responsibility be damned. You are called selfish if you want to keep the money you earn. You are not being neighborly if you don't shell out your money to bail out some dumb shit who mortgaged his home to the hilt to buy a boat.

Personally I would rather build my home on some acreage Take care of my dogs and horses, grow some of my own food because I believe in self reliance even if it is out of vogue.

And this whole "green" economy thing is bullshit.

If BHO or anyone really wanted a "green" economy they wouldn't be talking about all this ten year down the road shit.

They'd be talking about changing building codes to require solar hot water heaters, to require the use of insulated concrete building forms and passive solar designs and ground source heat pumps.

I could build a home today that would be so energy efficient that its carbon footprint would be 70% less than the average new home. I could do it with existing technology and not wait ten years for a wasteful government bureaucracy to tax me to get it done.

Pols don't want "green" technology, they want to say they do so that powerful people who invest in wind that happen to give shit loads of money to their campaigns can have their stock prices rise.

Green is just a new buzz word. Like commie used to be.

excellent post