is something wrong with this. . .

[emilynghiem]

do you have a problem with this, or is it just me:
1. I heard a radio interview from a "noncitizen national" who had served in the military for 6 years without issue. Then, after pleading guilty to possession of marijuana, he was ordered deported and has been held in ICE. So since he is not a naturalized citizen, he is slated for deportation back to Jamaica for a drug violation charge (where he has no family since he has lived in the US for 30 years, almost all his life), although he served in the US military to defend the laws and freedoms in this country.
2. CF a case in Houston of an illegal immigrant, with a criminal record who was deported before and returned illegally, who was convicted and confessed to brutally shooting to death a police officer, which is normally a capital offense. Instead he got life in prison without parole. So here is an illegal immigrant WITH a criminal record convicted of a capital offense; and he is being kept in the country and housed and fed on taxpayer dollars for life with access to family and rehabilitation, while the other man who served in the military is being deported for a marijuana violation which is minor in comparison.

I'm experiencing a moral dilemma trying to reconcile this. Does this seem backwards to you, or am I the only one? Can anyone help me justify or rationalize this in a fair way?

 

[RodISHI]

Sorry Emily I can't justify the injustice of our system many times. A little pot after serving six years in the military for a country then to be deported for such a minor offense does seem very unrealistic. Did he apply for citizenship prior to the pot charges?

 

[uscitizen]

Also did he complete his military enlistment? If so was he honorably discharged?

He should get citizenship after completing his enlistment successfully.

 

[Angelhair]

Nobody said this was a perfect country with a perfect justice system. The moral of the story - stay clean! BTW - deportation is not a death sentence - just won't be able to live in this imperfect nation anymore.

 

[emilynghiem]

UPDATE
Thank you all for your replies.
1. For the former military man, I understand that due to legal requirements of counsel to advise him of the deportation risk of a guilty plea, which the lawyer failed to inform him, it is possible to void his conviction. So it could be a blessing in disguise if he is able to get out of the charges altogether, and have a second chance to "stay clean." It is just sad that many vets turn to pot to ease their stress and ongoing symptoms caused by exposure to war trauma. If the state doesn't provide proper health care and counseling, it is even fair to penalize someone for self-medicating using free means such as growing your own pot? (I understand trying to sell or distribute is a different charge than medicating yourself.)

2. For the illegal immigrant who killed a police officer, he was part of a group of men in an unsuccessful prison break. So the victims' families statements that he was not "remorseful" seem to be proven (which was part of the justification of mercy by the jury who thought he had potential for rehabilitation). The psychiatric evidence shown in court included brain scans indicating damage that prevented him from controlling emotional decisions, compounded by problems with alcoholic addiction and withdrawal.

In general, I would really push for a prison system across the border for people like this who need recovery counseling and supervision, while they work for restitution instead of taxing other citizens. The 2,000 former military servicemen affected by deportation issues could be enlisted to serve as border security in a correctional system that allows for dual citizenship provided that the residents agree to follow laws and provide restitution for any violations. The governor of California also called for building a prison system in Mexico for illegal immigrants to serve time instead of costing billions more to taxpayers.

For the cases of "noncitizen nationals" in California and Texas, it could be argued that they receive alternative sentencing where they perform community service policing the borders in exchange for dual citizenship, in America and in border communities developed by and for families of mixed status to claim residency by enrolling as registrants under work-study programs supervised by universities that offer research studies or internships in international policies and economics. Since no program has been proven to work yet, the federal government should collaborate with churches, businesses or schools to set up model pilot programs, and monitor the management, until solutions are developed and tested which the government can then formally adopt for handling border populations.

do you have a problem with this, or is it just me:
1. I heard a radio interview from a "noncitizen national" who had served in the military for 6 years without issue. Then, after pleading guilty to possession of marijuana, he was ordered deported and has been held in ICE. So since he is not a naturalized citizen, he is slated for deportation back to Jamaica for a drug violation charge (where he has no family since he has lived in the US for 30 years, almost all his life), although he served in the US military to defend the laws and freedoms in this country.
2. CF a case in Houston of an illegal immigrant, with a criminal record who was deported before and returned illegally, who was convicted and confessed to brutally shooting to death a police officer, which is normally a capital offense. Instead he got life in prison without parole. So here is an illegal immigrant WITH a criminal record convicted of a capital offense; and he is being kept in the country and housed and fed on taxpayer dollars for life with access to family and rehabilitation, while the other man who served in the military is being deported for a marijuana violation which is minor in comparison.

I'm experiencing a moral dilemma trying to reconcile this. Does this seem backwards to you, or am I the only one? Can anyone help me justify or rationalize this in a fair way?

 

[WillowTree]

How exactly does an illegal alien get into the US military?

 

[jillian]

How exactly does an illegal alien get into the US military?

she didn't say he was illegal. she said he was a noncitizen national. I've never heard that designation, but I assume she means legal foreign national.

 

[WillowTree]

How exactly does an illegal alien get into the US military?

she didn't say he was illegal. she said he was a noncitizen national. I've never heard that designation, but I assume she means legal foreign national.

 

[WillowTree]

Certificates of Non Citizen Nationality

 

[CrimsonWhite]

How exactly does an illegal alien get into the US military?

We don't turn down people that want to pick up a rifle. Too many fucksticks that are here by birthright that don't want to serve. I served with guys that joined up when they were illegal. Recruiters can help them get the paperwork together to make them resident aliens. There was a PFC in my squad that slept on his recruiter's couch until the paperwork came. Hell of a soldier. Did more for this country than most shit stains could ever imagine.

 

[WillowTree]

How exactly does an illegal alien get into the US military?

We don't turn down people that want to pick up a rifle. Too many fucksticks that are here by birthright that don't want to serve. I served with guys that joined up when they were illegal. Recruiters can help them get the paperwork together to make them resident aliens. There was a PFC in my squad that slept on his recruiter's couch until the paperwork came. Hell of a soldier. Did more for this country than most shit stains could ever imagine.

I wondered. And the reason I asked is because so many on the left want to punish anyone who hires illegals. And we hire them to fight for us? Self flagellation!

 

[CrimsonWhite]

How exactly does an illegal alien get into the US military?

We don't turn down people that want to pick up a rifle. Too many fucksticks that are here by birthright that don't want to serve. I served with guys that joined up when they were illegal. Recruiters can help them get the paperwork together to make them resident aliens. There was a PFC in my squad that slept on his recruiter's couch until the paperwork came. Hell of a soldier. Did more for this country than most shit stains could ever imagine.

I wondered. And the reason I asked is because so many on the left want to punish anyone who hires illegals. And we hire them to fight for us? Self flagellation!

Nobody goes through MEPS as an illegal. They have their paperwork in order before they go. However, the Military does have a way of expediting that paperwork. Like I said, if you want to fight, we won't turn you down.

 

[WillowTree]

How exactly does an illegal alien get into the US military?

We don't turn down people that want to pick up a rifle. Too many fucksticks that are here by birthright that don't want to serve. I served with guys that joined up when they were illegal. Recruiters can help them get the paperwork together to make them resident aliens. There was a PFC in my squad that slept on his recruiter's couch until the paperwork came. Hell of a soldier. Did more for this country than most shit stains could ever imagine.

Do you mind my asking what kind of paperwork?? does it entail falsified documents? or how does that work? and then,, I might add, if they serve shouldn't they be given citizenship?? It should be an automatic.

 

[geauxtohell]

How exactly does an illegal alien get into the US military?

We don't turn down people that want to pick up a rifle. Too many fucksticks that are here by birthright that don't want to serve. I served with guys that joined up when they were illegal. Recruiters can help them get the paperwork together to make them resident aliens. There was a PFC in my squad that slept on his recruiter's couch until the paperwork came. Hell of a soldier. Did more for this country than most shit stains could ever imagine.

Exactly. The cons can whine about it all they want, I (and the military) could give a fuck. Maybe if their kids got off their ass this wouldn't be a "problem" (I direct that only at people who want to gripe about enlistment standards.

Also a gross generalization, but I found the Hispanics (both natural and non) were phenomenal infantrymen.

That machismo culture goes a long way on the line.

 

[WillowTree]

How exactly does an illegal alien get into the US military?

We don't turn down people that want to pick up a rifle. Too many fucksticks that are here by birthright that don't want to serve. I served with guys that joined up when they were illegal. Recruiters can help them get the paperwork together to make them resident aliens. There was a PFC in my squad that slept on his recruiter's couch until the paperwork came. Hell of a soldier. Did more for this country than most shit stains could ever imagine.

Exactly. The cons can whine about it all they want, I (and the military) could give a fuck. Maybe if their kids got off their ass this wouldn't be a "problem" (I direct that only at people who want to gripe about enlistment standards.

Also a gross generalization, but I found the Hispanics (both natural and non) were phenomenal infantrymen.

That machismo culture goes a long way on the line.

Hey asswipe. I'd vote for the draft. How about you? Both men and women.

 

[geauxtohell]

Hey asswipe. I'd vote for the draft. How about you? Both men and women.

A draft is morally unconscionable, guts the professional military, endangers those who want to be there, and impinges on our citizen's basic rights.

So, no. I wouldn't vote for the draft.

If you would, I'd consider you a fuck-tard. Which is a step down from asswipe.

 

[WillowTree]

Hey asswipe. I'd vote for the draft. How about you? Both men and women.

A draft is morally unconscionable, guts the professional military, endangers those who want to be there, and impinges on our citizen's basic rights.

So, no. I wouldn't vote for the draft.

If you would, I'd consider you a fuck-tard. Which is a step down from asswipe.

just as I thought.. it's your kid you want to keep out of harms way.. thanks for the answer.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

How exactly does an illegal alien get into the US military?

We don't turn down people that want to pick up a rifle. Too many fucksticks that are here by birthright that don't want to serve. I served with guys that joined up when they were illegal. Recruiters can help them get the paperwork together to make them resident aliens. There was a PFC in my squad that slept on his recruiter's couch until the paperwork came. Hell of a soldier. Did more for this country than most shit stains could ever imagine.

Do you mind my asking what kind of paperwork?? does it entail falsified documents? or how does that work? and then,, I might add, if they serve shouldn't they be given citizenship?? It should be an automatic.

I'm not 100% percent sure of the process, but I am sure that nothing gets falsified. These guys have to go through the same process as anybody else, they just have the added step of gaining resident alien status before actually joining. Remember, recruiters have "quotas." If you don't meet them, then it is a big deal. So most recruiters will go that extra mile to get a good recruit.

Also, I know Vasquez was to get full citizenship at the completion of his enlistment.

 

[WillowTree]

We don't turn down people that want to pick up a rifle. Too many fucksticks that are here by birthright that don't want to serve. I served with guys that joined up when they were illegal. Recruiters can help them get the paperwork together to make them resident aliens. There was a PFC in my squad that slept on his recruiter's couch until the paperwork came. Hell of a soldier. Did more for this country than most shit stains could ever imagine.

Do you mind my asking what kind of paperwork?? does it entail falsified documents? or how does that work? and then,, I might add, if they serve shouldn't they be given citizenship?? It should be an automatic.

I'm not 100% percent sure of the process, but I am sure that nothing gets falsified. These guys have to go through the same process as anybody else, they just have the added step of gaining resident alien status before actually joining. Remember, recruiters have "quotas." If you don't meet them, then it is a big deal. So most recruiters will go that extra mile to get a good recruit.

Also, I know Vasquez was to get full citizenship at the completion of his enlistment.

He definitely earned it.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

How exactly does an illegal alien get into the US military?

We don't turn down people that want to pick up a rifle. Too many fucksticks that are here by birthright that don't want to serve. I served with guys that joined up when they were illegal. Recruiters can help them get the paperwork together to make them resident aliens. There was a PFC in my squad that slept on his recruiter's couch until the paperwork came. Hell of a soldier. Did more for this country than most shit stains could ever imagine.

Exactly. The cons can whine about it all they want, I (and the military) could give a fuck. Maybe if their kids got off their ass this wouldn't be a "problem" (I direct that only at people who want to gripe about enlistment standards.

Also a gross generalization, but I found the Hispanics (both natural and non) were phenomenal infantrymen.

That machismo culture goes a long way on the line.

Uh, I grew up in a pretty conservative household. I vote to the right more often than not. Dad served. I served as did all three of my brothers. Military apathy is problem on both sides of the aisle there fuckwad.