Is Race and Issue In America?

[Aquarian]

What differentiates a racist/bigot from an individual who observes behavior/statistics/abilities differences between races and points them out?

1) A belief that any observation of individuals or statistical data applies to the group under study as a whole (if 27% of blacks commit a crime, all blacks commit crime or would like to... numbers made up).

2) The belief that the best of another race is inferior to the least of the observers race.

True rational observers will be able to realize that even if there are genetic factors that are racially specific that individuals from that race have the potential to supercede or otherwise overcome those limitations. I'd rather have a George Washington Carver in my neighborhood than a David Duke.

More specifically to the issue of race in america, the problems started out with white oppression of blacks, irish, chinese, hispanic etc. Legally most of that has been done away with, but the resentment that has caused has not, nor have individuals completely rid themselves of prejudice. This ain't gonna happen overnight, but some of us still have a hope that race will someday not be an issue.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by bamthin
The websites you referenced jimnyc are no different than a radical islamist web site calling for jihad against the US. It's all hate, any way you slice it.

Nice try, but not quite. Some of the references were actual government studies. Do you have any government studies to show that 'white supremacists' have lower than normal IQ's?

Why do you think the government has poured so much money into education for blacks over the years? Because of their superior intelligence? The government spends money on general education AND for black education. Has the government been supplying money for 'white education'? And why do you think they don't?

You have nothing, bam. You're upset with the facts that have been posted and tried to comeback with 'studies' of your own in rebuttal.

I can cite government studies, medical studies & independent studies. Can you do the same in return?

Of course the results will be more prevalent on 'hate sites'. Everyone will be labeling the media as racists for presenting the facts, just like you do. Speaking the truth is not racist.

When are the whites going to have a "white college fund"? How well do you think that will go over? When will the whites have a "White entertainment channel"? How well do you think that will go over? How about a Miss White America? Do you think that would be accepted?

 

[jimnyc]

Crime
by Jared Taylor

from National Review magazine, May 16, 1994

"IT HAS now become acceptable to discuss black crime,'' writes Mr. Ed Koch, former Mayor of New York City. I'm not sure this is a compliment to those of us who have been doing it for years -- Patrick Buchanan, Samuel Francis, and especially Professor William Wilbanks of Florida International University, to mention just a few. But we welcome Mr. Koch into our midst nonetheless.

In fact, the significance of black crime is even greater than Mr. Koch realizes, for without it, the level of violence in the United States would not be appreciably greater than that of the European nations with whom we are most often compared.

As the chart at the bottom of this page shows, Americans as a whole are more violent than Europeans: twice as likely as Frenchmen to commit murder and more than five times as likely as Germans to commit robbery. However, as is clear from the separate calculations for American blacks and whites, it is very high rates of violent crimes by blacks -- eight times as high as whites for murder and more than ten times for robbery -- that yield this result.

These figures actually overstate the white crime rate, since the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports classify Hispanics as "white.'' About 9 per cent of the population is Hispanic, and jurisdictions that treat them as a separate category report that they are two to six times as likely as whites to commit murder and robbery.

These figures have a bearing on the debate over gun control. White Americans, who have easy access to guns, are less likely to kill each other than are the British, who are almost completely disarmed. Would gun control be so widely advocated if America were less violent than Britain?

This comparison with Europe suggests that the United States has neither a unique "culture of violence" nor inadequate gun laws. It has a high rate of violent crime because it has a large number of violent black criminals. Let us hope Mr. Koch will agree that it is now respectable to say so.

CRIMES PER 100,000 POPULATION

A-Britain B-France C-Germany D-Italy E-U.S.A. F-American Whites G-American Blacks

Murder: A-7.4 B-4.6 C-4.2 D-6.0 E-9.3 F-5.1 G-43.4

Robbery: A-62.6 B-90.4 C-47.4 D-68.6 E-263.0 F-126 G-1,343

Source: Uniform Crime Reports for U.S. data, The Economist for European data. European data for 1990; American data for 1992

 

[bamthin]

I found some statistics for white-collar crimes. The racial makeup of white-collar criminals is predominately white. In 1998, the total estimated monetary damages from white-collar crime were $231 billion while street crimes were estimated to be around $10 billion. Each year an estimated 200,000 people die and 20 million people are injured from white collar crimes. The damages are caused by unsafe products, unsafe workplaces, violations of environmental law, etc. It also includes embezzlement, fraud, computer crime, SEC violations, etc. The average middle class white person in American suburbia is far more likely to be a victim of white collar crime than violent black crime. And the price can, in some cases, be just as deadly.

Crime is color blind. White criminals in position of power are far more dangerous and far less apprehended than black "gangstas". Black violent crime predominately occurs in deplorable socio-economic conditions and, for the most part, is intra-racial.


It is convenient to only include the violent crimes of murder and rape. To only consider the poverty driven crimes of armed robbery and such. Don't you think it is better to look at the entire crime picture before picking and choosing the parts that fit your "agenda"?


-Bam

 

[jimnyc]

I found some statistics for white-collar crimes. The racial makeup of white-collar criminals is predominately white.

Of course, there are a lot more whites in the population! What about percentages? See #39:

"Many people argue that high Black incarceration rates show that police center enforcement at Black crimes and ignore white-collar crimes. However, Blacks commit a disproportionate number of white-collar offenses as well. In 1990, Blacks were nearly 3 times as likely to be arrested for forgery, counterfeiting, and embezzlement as Whites."

Crime is color blind. White criminals in position of power are far more dangerous and far less apprehended than black "gangstas". Black violent crime predominately occurs in deplorable socio-economic conditions and, for the most part, is intra-racial.

Crime is color blind? How do you explain the inordinate amount of black crimes throughout the country? And it's a fact that they commit the majority of violent crimes, BY FAR.

It is convenient to only include the violent crimes of murder and rape. To only consider the poverty driven crimes of armed robbery and such. Don't you think it is better to look at the entire crime picture before picking and choosing the parts that fit your "agenda"?

Murder, rape, assault, robberies. What else do you want to include, petty theft? How about you post factual information in the areas you would like to discuss that show whites having a higher percentage.

Yes, let's worry about those who steal bubble gum and run red lights and ignore those who murder, rape & assault.

 

[jimnyc]

Curiously, bamthin, why have you ignored 90% of the questions I have asked you? I'll assume you don't have the answers, or know them and don't want to bolster my claim by answering them. Let me just ask the last few again:

Do you have any government studies to show that 'white supremacists' have lower than normal IQ's?

Why do you think the government has poured so much money into education for blacks over the years? Because of their superior intelligence? The government spends money on general education AND for black education. Has the government been supplying money for 'white education'? And why do you think they don't?

I can cite government studies, medical studies & independent studies. Can you do the same in return?

When are the whites going to have a "white college fund"? How well do you think that will go over? When will the whites have a "White entertainment channel"? How well do you think that will go over? How about a Miss White America? Do you think that would be accepted?

 

[bamthin]

Originally posted by jimnyc
Curiously, bamthin, why have you ignored 90% of the questions I have asked you? I'll assume you don't have the answers, or know them and don't want to bolster my claim by answering them. Let me just ask the last few again:

Do you have any government studies to show that 'white supremacists' have lower than normal IQ's?

Why do you think the government has poured so much money into education for blacks over the years? Because of their superior intelligence? The government spends money on general education AND for black education. Has the government been supplying money for 'white education'? And why do you think they don't?

I can cite government studies, medical studies & independent studies. Can you do the same in return?

When are the whites going to have a "white college fund"? How well do you think that will go over? When will the whites have a "White entertainment channel"? How well do you think that will go over? How about a Miss White America? Do you think that would be accepted?

To my knowledge, there has never been a government funded study to guage white supremacists lower I.Q.s. I did, however, provide a report which referenced factual data which did do a study. Now it has to be a government study? I have met my burden of proof here. Get over it.

I did not know that the US government funds "black education" as a seperate entity. But I wouldn't be suprised if they did. The government needs to look out for minorites because of racist whites that have no qualms in disenfranchising them. In the absence of white hate groups and the low I.Q. white supremacists, I would think all these programs and other things that preserve minority groups' culture and protect them by giving them a fair shot at the same opportunities that whites have, would probably dissappear. This can refer back to the notion that white supremacists have lower than average I.Q.s. If they would just shut up, then maybe the fear of minority oppression would abate in our society and the programs and other racially distinct government sponsored things would start to end. The more they goose step and burn crosses and spew statisitics publically which weakly prop up their flimsy delusions of grandeur of their racial superiority, the more ammunition minority groups have to make a rational argument that they need government protection and assistance to their elected officials.

But, as the laws of low IQ and stupidity would have it, the David Dukes and the skinheads and even the bitter whites who preach hate on the internet will continue to portray themselves as lunatics and un-American and the rational argument for programs and protections for minorities will continue.


-Bam

 

[jimnyc]

To my knowledge, there has never been a government funded study to guage white supremacists lower I.Q.s. I did, however, provide a report which referenced factual data which did do a study. Now it has to be a government study? I have met my burden of proof here. Get over it.

I never stated it had to be from the government. If you want your theory to have more credibility it would be better to cite equivalent studies rather than studies by a university club at Penn State. You've met the burden of proof to 'yourself', not to me. Post something credible from a respectable source and then we can talk. Until then, continue believing what you like, just don't expect anyone to take the argument seriously.

I did not know that the US government funds "black education" as a seperate entity. But I wouldn't be suprised if they did. The government needs to look out for minorites because of racist whites that have no qualms in disenfranchising them.

Are the teachers making the black students wear earplugs? Are they banned from utilizing the services of public and school libraries? Are they not offered a pen/pencil/paper at school to take the same tests as everyone else? The answer is no to all those questions. More money is poured into the black education because they need more assistance in learning.

In the absence of white hate groups and the low I.Q. white supremacists, I would think all these programs and other things that preserve minority groups' culture and protect them by giving them a fair shot at the same opportunities that whites have, would probably dissappear.

Funny, but absurd.

This can refer back to the notion that white supremacists have lower than average I.Q.s. If they would just shut up, then maybe the fear of minority oppression would abate in our society and the programs and other racially distinct government sponsored things would start to end. The more they goose step and burn crosses and spew statisitics publically which weakly prop up their flimsy delusions of grandeur of their racial superiority, the more ammunition minority groups have to make a rational argument that they need government protection and assistance to their elected officials.

A better start would be for the blacks to stop committing so many crimes.

But, as the laws of low IQ and stupidity would have it, the David Dukes and the skinheads and even the bitter whites who preach hate on the internet will continue to portray themselves as lunatics and un-American and the rational argument for programs and protections for minorities will continue.

And the blacks will continually be on the top of the list in crime centers, and at the bottom of the list on intelligence.

I notice you forgot these questions:

When are the whites going to have a "white college fund"? How well do you think that will go over? When will the whites have a "White entertainment channel"? How well do you think that will go over? How about a Miss White America? Do you think that would be accepted?

 

[Big D]

Banthin,

Here are some articles written by a black man on a jewish website, that talks about the subject you have brought up:


http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/elder102600.asp

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/elder103102.asp

 

[wonderwench]

Originally posted by bamthin
I found some statistics for white-collar crimes. The racial makeup of white-collar criminals is predominately white. In 1998, the total estimated monetary damages from white-collar crime were $231 billion while street crimes were estimated to be around $10 billion. Each year an estimated 200,000 people die and 20 million people are injured from white collar crimes. The damages are caused by unsafe products, unsafe workplaces, violations of environmental law, etc. It also includes embezzlement, fraud, computer crime, SEC violations, etc. The average middle class white person in American suburbia is far more likely to be a victim of white collar crime than violent black crime. And the price can, in some cases, be just as deadly.

These statistics are incredibly distorted by the rampant abuse by Trail Lawyers of tort law. Please refer to the Wacky Warning label thread for more info. I suspect if these numbers were adjusted for real harm rather than just profiteering through blackmail of honest business people, they would be much lower.

 

[Jeff]

I sit here reading this trash on my screen...it makes me LMAO.... I presume bam bam over there feels the poor black man is picked on...lol..... do you realize in all professions now a days a black person will get the job twice as fast as a white person...... I worked for the state of NJ....hell there when takeing a test you needed to be ( as a white man) #1 on the list in order to even think of getting the job . Seems there was a quota to be filled....hmmm think about it all ya have to do is be black & ya get the job!
My wife is a property manager here in the big A & in order to fire a black person it takes months ( even though the person in question refuses to do his/her work) in the white world this is called insubordination!!! ( grounds for termination in most profesions!!)
I wont go into why or why not there are more blacks in jails ( but hell open your eyes!) But I am sure it is cause the poor black man is picked on. Like Oj for example.....lol...... there are plenty of white men that went to death row for a fraction of the evidence that they had on him!!
As for Canada I can only go by what I have seen, & when in NS ( Halifax to be exact) I didnt see the first black man....hell I was the only non Canadian on the streets...lol... I asked the woman I was with if they had any problem with aids there ... she said god yes ... last yr we had a guy with it ... it was in the paper ...LOL... seems the guy disappeared.
As for Bam bam I am not sure if ya are black or white..if black just get on with life as a educated man ( notice I didnt say black man) if you are white I suggest ya move out of your lilly white neighborhood & open your eyes
Jeff

 

[jimnyc]

I'm in complete agreement with you, Jeff & Laura!

The way some are catered to in the workforce makes me sick. Earn your job by being the most qualified, not because of your color. I'd be ashamed if I was black and received a job by default. The same goes for acceptance into colleges. The qualifications should be standard across the board, regardless of race or gender.

 

[bamthin]

You said:

I never stated it had to be from the government.

In response to me saying:

To my knowledge, there has never been a government funded study to guage white supremacists lower I.Q.s.

In response to you saying:

Do you have any government studies to show that 'white supremacists' have lower than normal IQ's?

Did I miss something?


You wanted me to answer these:

When are the whites going to have a "white college fund"? How well do you think that will go over? When will the whites have a "White entertainment channel"? How well do you think that will go over? How about a Miss White America? Do you think that would be accepted?

They appeared to be rhetorical but I guess I can help you here. Minorities are given societal acceptance for these type things because they are a smaller sector of the American population and have cultural differences that aren't encapsulated in mainstream American society. There is a Miss Asian America contest too. It is however, interesting to note the waning popularity of the Miss Black USA contest. As we have evolved into a more accepting society, black women have a decent shot of being competitive and, in some cases, actually winning the regular Miss America contest. This flies in the face of the white supremacist view that blacks are somehow uglier than whites.

I think you can put BET in the same category. It is interesting to note the popularity of sitcoms that have blacks in them with the white TV audience. Once again, here is the evolution of acceptance of blacks more and more into the mainstream white society. There are also hispanic channels on the air FYI.

I think the Negro College Fund was established becaused of the lower economic status of blacks. At the time it was established, blacks were not even allowed in most American universities or they were alienated by the white students. I may be mistaken, but I beleive the NCF has only 39 member colleges and I don't think it is federally funded. In addition, the 39 schools are traditionally black colleges.

I think most of American society, except the low I.Q. white supremacists, would be outraged by a "Miss White America" contest. it would de-evolve our society to where we were during segregation. It's not just the blacks that get pissed at this stuff you know, it's the majority of white America as well.

Hope this helps.

-Bam

 

[jimnyc]

They appeared to be rhetorical but I guess I can help you here. Minorities are given societal acceptance for these type things because they are a smaller sector of the American population and have cultural differences that aren't encapsulated in mainstream American society. There is a Miss Asian America contest too. It is however, interesting to note the waning popularity of the Miss Black USA contest. As we have evolved into a more accepting society, black women have a decent shot of being competitive and, in some cases, actually winning the regular Miss America contest. This flies in the face of the white supremacist view that blacks are somehow uglier than whites.

Why cry foul when treated differently than others and then go out of your way to have yourself segregated? You cannot allow one race to have events for their own race and then whine when another race does it. It sounds like you are saying that it's ok for blacks to exclude whites from certain events but that it would be wrong if whites did the same thing.

I think you can put BET in the same category. It is interesting to note the popularity of sitcoms that have blacks in them with the white TV audience. Once again, here is the evolution of acceptance of blacks more and more into the mainstream white society. There are also hispanic channels on the air FYI.

I have no problem with black based sitcoms, I have a problem with entirely black based channels. You'll notice that the majority of accepted black programs are NOT on the black entertainment channel. And yet at the same time blacks will speak out against programs that lack black representatives.

I think the Negro College Fund was established becaused of the lower economic status of blacks. At the time it was established, blacks were not even allowed in most American universities or they were alienated by the white students. I may be mistaken, but I beleive the NCF has only 39 member colleges and I don't think it is federally funded. In addition, the 39 schools are traditionally black colleges.

Even if it's private, it's disgusting. I'd love to see someone start the "Whitey college fund" and only assist white people. How long do you think it would be before the riots started?

I think most of American society, except the low I.Q. white supremacists, would be outraged by a "Miss White America" contest. it would de-evolve our society to where we were during segregation. It's not just the blacks that get pissed at this stuff you know, it's the majority of white America as well.

And having a "Miss Black America" helps the race issue? I personally don't want a "Miss White America", I just find it hilarious that some dopes would condone the blacks doing this and condemn the whites if they did it. Very sad.

 

[bamthin]

Well, I am thinking in a few more generations it won't matter anyway. Blacks and whites and hispanics and asians are interbreeding more and more. Maybe early next century the caucasian will be the minority in America, maybe sooner. Maybe, by then, all the hateful, bigoted low IQ white supremacists will be extinct, like the dinosaur. And America will be a much better place.

I am done arguing this point with you. I just can't seem to understand your position. Blacks are an important part of American society. They have contributed in every way whites have. They are dying in Iraq fighting for your cause and they have fought in most of the other wars this country has been in to protect your freedom. What is the point in denegrading them?

I just don't get it.


-Bam

 

[jimnyc]

Maybe, by then, all the hateful, bigoted low IQ white supremacists will be extinct, like the dinosaur. And America will be a much better place.

Sure, that may be 2 in the entire nation, considering I've seen nothing that shows that trend that you speak of.

I am done arguing this point with you. I just can't seem to understand your position. Blacks are an important part of American society. They have contributed in every way whites have. They are dying in Iraq fighting for your cause and they have fought in most of the other wars this country has been in to protect your freedom. What is the point in denegrading them?

Speaking out against violent criminals is not denigrating. Pointing out the facts about intelligence of various races is not denigrating. You confuse pointing out the obvious as racial and disparaging. Sorry you don't enjoy, or comprehend, the simple facts.

I just don't get it.

I hope you weren't trying to surprise me with that statement.

 

[Big D]

Bamthin

Those are interesting facts that you presented on White collar crime, I was hoping you could present the web site so I could read more into it.

 

[eric]

Blacks are an important part of American society

Well someone has to supply all the drugs, keep the police employed, and fill up those welfare hotels !!!

 

[Big D]

Bamthin,

You never did get bact to me about your facts, hmmmm I wonder why?

Anyways here are some facts that show that blacks commit "white collar crime" at a much higher rate then do any other groups:

http://www.propaganda101.com/Race/raceand.htm

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Big D
You never did get bact to me about your facts, hmmmm I wonder why?

I believe he is ignoring you now. I guess that's easier than supplying sources.