Is promoting human life against American law?

[ScreamingEagle]

Sure seems that way....Obama wants to dictate and force the Catholic Church to kill (via providing contraception, abortion, sterilization, etc.) in order to preserve the "separation of church and state"....so says Al Sharpton today...

Sharpton: Obama needs to dictate to the Catholic Church to maintain separation of church and state, or something « Hot Air

2-06-12

Someone has a very confused idea about the separation of church and state, and surprisingly, it’s the Reverend in this Morning Joe panel today. Working off of Peggy Noonan’s Wall Street Journal column from Saturday, Al Sharpton argues that Barack Obama had to dictate to the Catholic Church to violate its religious tenets in order to … preserve the separation of church and state?

Rev. Al Sharpton: No, I think you have to have the reverse argument, and that is if I want to seek employment and have employment in a church but that I disagree with the dogma and theology of the church, do I have the right to be protected by law? And I think that what the Obama administration is saying that you do not have to follow the tenets of a church organization to be an employee of a church.

Scarborough: Do you think this is a good decision?

Sharpton: If we are going to have a separation of church and state, we’re going to have a separation of church and state. Whether I would personally agree with the decision or not, the question is do I have a right to make that law?

This is an absurd perversion of the concept of separation of church and state. When Thomas Jefferson wrote that (it’s not found in American law), he meant that the church should not dictate to the State on law — and that the state should not dictate to the church on doctrine. Jefferson wanted to avoid establishing a state religion run by Parliament that had the power to manipulate the spiritual for the sake of the secular. That is exactly what Obama proposes to do in this case: dictate to the Catholic Church and its organizations that its doctrine on contraception, abortion, and sterilization are incorrect and force them to fund those practices that violate their most deeply held beliefs on the sanctity of life, all to satisfy Obama’s political needs.

 

[BlindBoo]

Pretty absurd. But all to typical of the pseudo-cons and their pseudo-outrage.

The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services reportedly based its decision on an Institute of Medicine study, which concluded that birth control is medically necessary to “ensure women’s health and well being.” The independent, nonprofit organization recommended in a July report that contraception, sterilization and reproductive services, including the controversial “morning-after” pill, should be available to all women under health insurance plans, echoing similar recommendations by other medical organizations such as the American Academy of Family Physicians and the American Public Health Association.

Among Catholics, birth control is relatively popular and most are against Church leaders’ intervening in that decision. Ninety-five percent of Catholic women used contraceptives, per a report by the Catholic University of America. Eighty-five percent of all Catholics support expanding access to birth control for women who cannot afford it, higher than the 82 percent of the general population who favors this, according to a survey by the Public Religion Research Institute in Washington, D.C.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/01/catholic-church-vs-obama-in-election-year-showdown/

 

[g5000]

You take federal money, you can't bitch when the federal government tells you what rules you must follow to continue to get that money.

This is what happens when you invite the devil into your house.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Is promoting human life against American law?

Not if they end-up rich.....right?


​

 

[ScreamingEagle]

You take federal money, you can't bitch when the federal government tells you what rules you must follow to continue to get that money.

This is what happens when you invite the devil into your house.

where do you think federal money comes from anyway.......? from just abortionists.....? let me clue you in....lots of it comes from Catholics who pay taxes....

now please show me the law that says promoting life is against the law....

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Pretty absurd. But all to typical of the pseudo-cons and their pseudo-outrage.

The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services reportedly based its decision on an Institute of Medicine study, which concluded that birth control is medically necessary to “ensure women’s health and well being.” The independent, nonprofit organization recommended in a July report that contraception, sterilization and reproductive services, including the controversial “morning-after” pill, should be available to all women under health insurance plans, echoing similar recommendations by other medical organizations such as the American Academy of Family Physicians and the American Public Health Association.

Among Catholics, birth control is relatively popular and most are against Church leaders’ intervening in that decision. Ninety-five percent of Catholic women used contraceptives, per a report by the Catholic University of America. Eighty-five percent of all Catholics support expanding access to birth control for women who cannot afford it, higher than the 82 percent of the general population who favors this, according to a survey by the Public Religion Research Institute in Washington, D.C.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/01/catholic-church-vs-obama-in-election-year-showdown/

what a pseudo answer....

the only thing pseudo is the liberal lie that abortion is a "secular" belief....

 

[g5000]

You take federal money, you can't bitch when the federal government tells you what rules you must follow to continue to get that money.

This is what happens when you invite the devil into your house.

where do you think federal money comes from anyway.......? from just abortionists.....? let me clue you in....lots of it comes from Catholics who pay taxes....

now please show me the law that says promoting life is against the law....

This is about the Church. Does the Church pay taxes? No. Do the hospitals which are the actual subject of this legislation pay taxes? No.

But they do not hesitate to accept federal dollars.

 

[ScienceRocks]

The left has always been about killing tens if not hundreds of millions of people to force us all to be equal. No matter the reality that we aren't.

 

[g5000]

The law of the land is Roe v. Wade and Obamacare. Like or not, that is the reality. So this "show me the law which says promoting life is against the law" is so much smoke and mirrors. The law is pro-choice.

If your religion is opposed to abortion, that is a very simple thing to live by. No one can force you to perform an abortion. So promoting life is not against the law.

But when you take what Caesar has offered you, you are now under Caesar's house rules.

The Catholic Church accepts the devil into its house by accepting Medicare and Medicaid patients. It has no room to whine about the devil acting like the devil.

You see, the separation of church and state is not just to protect the state from the Church. It is to protect the Church from the State, too.

Some people just never figure that out, thinking its a one way street.

 

[Katzndogz]

Al Sharpton is the same guy who phonied up Twana Brawley to make himself a few bucks and hasn't changed a day since.

The objection is not who gets abortions or contraceptives, it's who pays for them. Employers who are religious organizations are forced to pay for the abortions and contraceptives for others. It's a lot like being forced to buy the animal sacrifice for the santeria.

The way to deal with a government this oppressive is to shut down. Overnight, every Catholic hospital, adoption agency, every enterprise should close. Push people into emergency rooms 50 miles away. Fire everyone and put obama's unemployment rate through the stratosphere.

Liberals need to start experiencing the consequences of their actions.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

You take federal money, you can't bitch when the federal government tells you what rules you must follow to continue to get that money.

This is what happens when you invite the devil into your house.

where do you think federal money comes from anyway.......? from just abortionists.....? let me clue you in....lots of it comes from Catholics who pay taxes....

now please show me the law that says promoting life is against the law....

This is about the Church. Does the Church pay taxes? No. Do the hospitals which are the actual subject of this legislation pay taxes? No.

But they do not hesitate to accept federal dollars.

yes....in order to take care of indigents (the poor).....

the poor will now have to turn to Big Daddy Gubmint for direct help from the "secular" government.....

this is the leftie plan to have BIG GOVERNMENT control everybody in every aspect of life....from cradle to grave....

 

[ScienceRocks]

We as a society must be very careful allowing our government the power to MURDER at will. We will wake up one day regretting it.

 

[Annie]

You take federal money, you can't bitch when the federal government tells you what rules you must follow to continue to get that money.

This is what happens when you invite the devil into your house.

where do you think federal money comes from anyway.......? from just abortionists.....? let me clue you in....lots of it comes from Catholics who pay taxes....

now please show me the law that says promoting life is against the law....

I'd never advocate not paying taxes, though certainly lowering them.

However, Catholics have a pretty good record of charitable giving. Whether at church, Catholic Charities, Red Cross, etc. So, make it well heard that the Catholic Charities, schools, hospitals will need to confine their services to Catholics only, by Catholics only; simply because the government is insisting that providing to non-Catholics would coerce them into providing a moral peril. Obviously the number of outlets would shrink drastically, in reality cutting off the poor in many instances, but there are needy in wealthier areas, money which has been directed towards the cataclysmic poor.

So take away the medicare/medicaid, help for food pantries/kitchens, etc.

Catholics will be encouraged to make charitable donations to outlets that help and employ Catholics. It may be the beginning of an evangelical Catholic Church, one that really hasn't up to now, encouraged conversions to the faith.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

where do you think federal money comes from anyway.......? from just abortionists.....? let me clue you in....lots of it comes from Catholics who pay taxes....

now please show me the law that says promoting life is against the law....

This is about the Church. Does the Church pay taxes? No. Do the hospitals which are the actual subject of this legislation pay taxes? No.

But they do not hesitate to accept federal dollars.

yes....in order to take care of indigents (the poor).....

the poor will now have to turn to Big Daddy Gubmint for direct help from the "secular" government....

.....Because the pro-lifers bail, on them, right after the poor draw their first breath.​

 

[ScreamingEagle]

The law of the land is Roe v. Wade and Obamacare. Like or not, that is the reality. So this "show me the law which says promoting life is against the law" is so much smoke and mirrors. The law is pro-choice.

If your religion is opposed to abortion, that is a very simple thing to live by. No one can force you to perform an abortion. So promoting life is not against the law.

But when you take what Caesar has offered you, you are now under Caesar's house rules.

The Catholic Church accepts the devil into its house by accepting Medicare and Medicaid patients. It has no room to whine about the devil acting like the devil.

You see, the separation of church and state is not just to protect the state from the Church. It is to protect the Church from the State, too.

Some people just never figure that out, thinking its a one way street.

since when does Federal money get to automatically morph a church operation into a state institution....?

and from what i understand only about 5% of the Catholic operating money comes from the federal government.....does that mean the Feds get to control 100% of the Catholic operation....?

 

[g5000]

where do you think federal money comes from anyway.......? from just abortionists.....? let me clue you in....lots of it comes from Catholics who pay taxes....

now please show me the law that says promoting life is against the law....

This is about the Church. Does the Church pay taxes? No. Do the hospitals which are the actual subject of this legislation pay taxes? No.

But they do not hesitate to accept federal dollars.

yes....in order to take care of indigents (the poor).....

the poor will now have to turn to Big Daddy Gubmint for direct help from the "secular" government.....

this is the leftie plan to have BIG GOVERNMENT control everybody in every aspect of life....from cradle to grave....

I agree 100 percent. That is the plan. I believe the left will not be satisfied until we have universal healthcare.

Another topic on this subject expressed the belief that this move by Obama was a stupid one. I think it was the opposite of stupid. It is politically brilliant.

Obama has lost a lot of street cred with the left. Because of the economic meltdown underway when he entered office he has been unable to implement his most progressive plans. It is very telling that his first big push was to create an entirely new entitlement program (ObamaCare). Just imagine what he would be doing if his hands weren't tied by an economy that is barely breathing.

Because he has not been the progressive messiah the left thought he would be, Obama needs to burnish his liberal credentials this year if he is to motivate the left to get out the vote so he can win re-election. And since he is never going to get the pro-life vote anyway, he has nothing to lose by pissing them off and everything to gain from the pro-choice, pro-government faction.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Al Sharpton is the same guy who phonied up Twana Brawley to make himself a few bucks and hasn't changed a day since.

The objection is not who gets abortions or contraceptives, it's who pays for them. Employers who are religious organizations are forced to pay for the abortions and contraceptives for others. It's a lot like being forced to buy the animal sacrifice for the santeria.

The way to deal with a government this oppressive is to shut down. Overnight, every Catholic hospital, adoption agency, every enterprise should close. Push people into emergency rooms 50 miles away. Fire everyone and put obama's unemployment rate through the stratosphere.

Liberals need to start experiencing the consequences of their actions.

Good ideas....

i think the "Reverend" Al Sharpton should get out of politics.....otherwise isn't he violating that "separation of church and state"........

 

[ScreamingEagle]

This is about the Church. Does the Church pay taxes? No. Do the hospitals which are the actual subject of this legislation pay taxes? No.

But they do not hesitate to accept federal dollars.

yes....in order to take care of indigents (the poor).....

the poor will now have to turn to Big Daddy Gubmint for direct help from the "secular" government.....

this is the leftie plan to have BIG GOVERNMENT control everybody in every aspect of life....from cradle to grave....

I agree 100 percent. That is the plan. I believe the left will not be satisfied until we have universal healthcare.

Another topic on this subject expressed the belief that this move by Obama was a stupid one. I think it was the opposite of stupid. It is politically brilliant.

Obama has lost a lot of street cred with the left. Because of the economic meltdown underway when he entered office he has been unable to implement his most progressive plans. It is very telling that his first big push was to create an entirely new entitlement program (ObamaCare). Just imagine what he would be doing if his hands weren't tied by an economy that is barely breathing.

Because he has not been the progressive messiah the left thought he would be, Obama needs to burnish his liberal credentials this year if he is to motivate the left to get out the vote so he can win re-election. And since he is never going to get the pro-life vote anyway, he has nothing to lose by pissing them off and everything to gain from the pro-choice, pro-government faction.

yes....the abortion issue always gets the leftie base riled up....Obama is a scumbag extraordinaire...

if the idea to not kill is considered "religious"......then i would say the idea to kill is also "religious" in nature....it is the leftie "religion"....

a person's individual "choice" should not be paid for by the opposite believer....i certainly do not see how Roe v Wade translates into paying for another's abortion....

 

[g5000]

a person's individual "choice" should not be paid for by the opposite believer....i certainly do not see how Roe v Wade translates into paying for another's abortion....

Nor do I. This is also another reason why we need to move this country away from employer-provided health insurance. That was a huge mistake started by labor unions.

Now ObamaCare is forcing employers to offer health insurance or pay a fine, thus embedding the mistake deeper. Not only that, Obama raised the tax-exempt ceiling for Cadillac plans to $27,000 when the Democratic Congress had set it around $18,000. A gigantically obvious sop to labor unions.

Perhaps the Church should stop offering health insurance altogether and just pay the fine. It is actually cheaper to do so.

 

[ABikerSailor]

yes....in order to take care of indigents (the poor).....

the poor will now have to turn to Big Daddy Gubmint for direct help from the "secular" government.....

this is the leftie plan to have BIG GOVERNMENT control everybody in every aspect of life....from cradle to grave....

I agree 100 percent. That is the plan. I believe the left will not be satisfied until we have universal healthcare.

Another topic on this subject expressed the belief that this move by Obama was a stupid one. I think it was the opposite of stupid. It is politically brilliant.

Obama has lost a lot of street cred with the left. Because of the economic meltdown underway when he entered office he has been unable to implement his most progressive plans. It is very telling that his first big push was to create an entirely new entitlement program (ObamaCare). Just imagine what he would be doing if his hands weren't tied by an economy that is barely breathing.

Because he has not been the progressive messiah the left thought he would be, Obama needs to burnish his liberal credentials this year if he is to motivate the left to get out the vote so he can win re-election. And since he is never going to get the pro-life vote anyway, he has nothing to lose by pissing them off and everything to gain from the pro-choice, pro-government faction.

yes....the abortion issue always gets the leftie base riled up....Obama is a scumbag extraordinaire...

if the idea to not kill is considered "religious"......then i would say the idea to kill is also "religious" in nature....it is the leftie "religion"....

a person's individual "choice" should not be paid for by the opposite believer....i certainly do not see how Roe v Wade translates into paying for another's abortion....

You DON'T pay for abortions. No federal funds are allowed to be paid out for that, it's completely paid for by the patient themselves.

Birth control on the other hand IS funded and given away for free.

But..........birth control via the pill, IUD, hormone therapy, etc. is not the same thing as an abortion.