CDZ Is Police Misconduct and Child Abuse-Neglect Intertwined?

[Elvis Obama]

The reason that we don't make any progress is because of the inability to correctly identify the issue, recognize what has not worked in the past, articulate the necessary measures to be taken and fund it.

I'm not sure who the "we" is in this sentence. I agree that the first step is to define the problem properly. My point is that we almost always fail to define the problem properly, because of extremists on both sides. Apologists for Hip-Hop like to portray it as a healthy expression of a healthy culture. Ebonics, they tell us, is a legitimate dialect. Say that too many poor people are poor parents and you're attacked for "insulting poor people".

The notion that we don't make any progress is a bit puzzling to me. 150 years ago we freed the slaves, into a war torn region with a collapsed economy. A hundred plus years of Jim Crow, redlining and citizen groups like the KKK continued to try to keep the black population isolated and suppressed. Despite this, after the last barriers to upward mobility were removed in the 70's, 75% of the black population has managed to rise above poverty. That's amazing to me.

What we're refusing to acknowledge, in the wake of this amazing accomplishment, is that the 25% who remain in poverty are in worse shape than ever. White flight and black flight has drained all the talent and robbed the inner cities of any chance to establish a healthy tax base in these areas. Their services have been decimated, especially the schools. We have distilled and purified the poverty in these areas and as a result we have created an evermore entrenched permanent underclass. You can flood these areas with bootstraps, and these people will still be incapable of pulling themselves up.

 

[AveryJarhman]

Would you have gone there if you weren't being paid to go? I wouldn't.

After completing my first year of training and then being assigned to the Bklyn community Shawn Jay Z Carter raps about attempting to destroy, I spent twelve years serving this community before years of experiencing anxiety and fear for my safety finally took an emotional toll on me, causing me to seek a transfer to a more stable community.

The NYPD required me to spend at least two years serving this Bklyn community before they would honor a request to transfer to another precinct.

Despite be promoted to detective after seven years of serving this community, I remained for nearly five more years before concerns for emotional well being and physical safety caused me to abandon this community.

Twelve years of accumulated experience and knowledge about the community were now worthless to the community.

All the ties, allies, snitches and friendships I made in the community were worthless when I left.

All the nuances I learned about about this community for my own safety, knowledge that aided me in better serving the community, were worthless when I left.

Why did I leave after twelve years of providing police services to a community I came to consider my second home...because of immature, irresponsible "living wild" moms like these who raised and nurtured children who matured into teens and adults lacking empathy and compassion for their peaceful neighbors...children who were victims of Childhood Abuse and Neglect that often caused them to be depressed and suicidal.

It's one thing dealing with depressed people...it's a whole other thing when dealing with suicidal teens and adults who would just as soon die as live.

Witnessing A Severely Depressed Teen, Reveal He Is A Victim of Child Abuse/Neglect

Brooklyn's Boom-Box Mom; Sad Case of Child Abuse & Maltreatment

 

[AveryJarhman]

It isn't that I don't understand where you are coming from. I do.

Disir, thank you for taking the time to reply to my concerns.

 

[Disir]

I'm not sure who the "we" is in this sentence. I agree that the first step is to define the problem properly. My point is that we almost always fail to define the problem properly, because of extremists on both sides.

I agree with the extremists jack it up but it is usually defined. It's a little deeper than that. It's about agendas and the number of ways to exploit an issue. It happens on the local, state and national level. It then becomes a case of appealing to the extremists in order to make sure that the issue is ignored so that an agenda is fulfilled and a sense of accomplishment exists without having done a damn thing.

Apologists for Hip-Hop like to portray it as a healthy expression of a healthy culture. Ebonics, they tell us, is a legitimate dialect. Say that too many poor people are poor parents and you're attacked for "insulting poor people"

It's more of a question of can it be changed, and if it cannot, then why pour energy into it? Hip-Hop exists whether we listen to it or like it. It can't legally be altered. Move on to the next. Ebonics exists. You can't really use it in the professional world. The fact that it exists and acknowledging that it exists is not an endorsement. Can one change the fact that it exists at all? No. Move on to the next.

Say that too many poor people are poor parents and you're attacked for "insulting poor people"

Why would you say it like that? If we know that it gets real complicated real quick then it would seem that not pointing out those complications forces someone else to point them out.
If you and I know that a good portion of problems exist now due to deinstitutionalization then address it. If you and I know that the influx of undocumented workers has destabilized those that work in the lower wage industries then address it. Then we see exactly who really gives a damn and who doesn't.

I hope that didn't come off too strong. I'm a get shit done kind of person.

 

[Elvis Obama]

I agree with the extremists jack it up but it is usually defined. It's a little deeper than that. It's about agendas and the number of ways to exploit an issue. It happens on the local, state and national level. It then becomes a case of appealing to the extremists in order to make sure that the issue is ignored so that an agenda is fulfilled and a sense of accomplishment exists without having done a damn thing.

That is, unfortunately, a pretty good encapsulation of the art of politics.

It's more of a question of can it be changed, and if it cannot, then why pour energy into it? Hip-Hop exists whether we listen to it or like it. It can't legally be altered. Move on to the next. Ebonics exists. You can't really use it in the professional world. The fact that it exists and acknowledging that it exists is not an endorsement. Can one change the fact that it exists at all? No. Move on to the next.

You don't treat symptoms, but neither do you declare that they are not symptoms. In Oakland Eboncis was declared a legitimate language and insisted that instruction should be conducted in Ebonics in the interest of "maintaining the legitimacy and richness of such language". What garbage. It is a dialect, not a language, and it has no place in the professional world or in our schools.

Language is not a symptom though. It is a wedge. It's the only way to affect the cycle of poverty. One of my favorite quotes about language and poverty is from Shaw's Pygmalion, "You see this creature with her kerbstone English: the English that will keep her in the gutter to the end of her days.". Unfortunately for us, we don't have an army of Henry Higgins' to send into the ghettos to teach our little Eliza Doolittles.

Why would you say it like that? If we know that it gets real complicated real quick then it would seem that not pointing out those complications forces someone else to point them out. If you and I know that a good portion of problems exist now due to deinstitutionalization then address it. If you and I know that the influx of undocumented workers has destabilized those that work in the lower wage industries then address it. Then we see exactly who really gives a damn and who doesn't.

Yeah, the only problem with these things is that they are huge problems in and of themselves, and are, so far, beyond our political will. Unfair competition for jobs has been a problem since the end of the Civil War, when the freed slaves had to compete with the poor Southern whites. Then the Irish were the competitors, then the Germans, and Italians, etc., etc.. Ending illegal immigration is a good idea, but I don't know if it will have anything but a marginal effect on black unemployment.

 

[Disir]

You don't treat symptoms, but neither do you declare that they are not symptoms. In Oakland Eboncis was declared a legitimate language and insisted that instruction should be conducted in Ebonics in the interest of "maintaining the legitimacy and richness of such language". What garbage. It is a dialect, not a language, and it has no place in the professional world or in our schools.

Language is not a symptom though. It is a wedge. It's the only way to affect the cycle of poverty. One of my favorite quotes about language and poverty is from Shaw's Pygmalion, "You see this creature with her kerbstone English: the English that will keep her in the gutter to the end of her days.". Unfortunately for us, we don't have an army of Henry Higgins' to send into the ghettos to teach our little Eliza Doolittles.

Yep. Riding on the coattails of Lau v Nichols. It is a dialect and the backlash was tremendous. It had less to do with it being a language and more to do with accessing funds that were available for those that spoke Spanish and Chinese at home--which is exactly what the perception was. There was a huge miscommunication between the linguistic professionals and the general public and a strong desire to float a program to see if it worked.

I, personally, don't mind if it shows up in a skit, song, or poetry. Sometimes the assignments include creating one of the above and as long as the information or rules are provided. You have to know the rules to break them.

Henry Higgins! AAVE is often used just to irritate someone else. But, there is a need for classes and sometimes in job training (depending on location) it is included. OTH, that is what the public education system is for.

Yeah, the only problem with these things is that they are huge problems in and of themselves, and are, so far, beyond our political will. Unfair competition for jobs has been a problem since the end of the Civil War, when the freed slaves had to compete with the poor Southern whites. Then the Irish were the competitors, then the Germans, and Italians, etc., etc.. Ending illegal immigration is a good idea, but I don't know if it will have anything but a marginal effect on black unemployment.

I watched it in Florida and I watched it in Chicago. I think it would have a huge effect on employment. The reason that we don't make any progress is because people are rah-rah-rahing at the extremes. This isn't as easy to get away with as it was in prior generations: there is no more westward expansion, jobs are moved overseas and there is a huge bit of outsourcing at white collar jobs as well. The reality is that we can't have it all. People need to get that. When we have articles being run on "sanctuary cities" that are saying, "Hey, we are broke and have been pushed to our limits" and people are ignoring it because it isn't on their political agenda then we have a problem. It's a problem that can be addressed.