Is Obamacare going to make things worse?

[Bern80]

Government doesn't increase the supply of health care - its interference just makes it more expensive.

Really? Who funds the vast majority of medical residency training in the United States?

private loans?

 

[auditor0007]

Actually the point is those who "claim" they would go without it by choice, are either liars or would be a nuisance on the system when they get sick and then feel they should be treated and the rest of us have to pay for it because of their stupidity.

Simple solution: if you don't have insurance and you get sick, you don't get treatment. In order to receive treatment, you must show an ability to pay within a set amount of time. If you don't have the money, no treatment. And if you die, tough shit.

I have heard many people here state that they don't need health insurance because they are healthy. If they do get sick, then they will pay for it out of pocket, lmao. This is their right. I don't have a problem with that, they just shouldn't receive any treatment they can't pay for. The way it works now, these conservatives who demand their right not to be forced into purchasing insurance, will use the system to their advantage should they become sick. Then it will be their right for us to pay for them?

I see some people are slowly catching on to the novel idea of paying for service rendered.........

Are you always going to be able to cover the cost of some unexpected health problem out of pocket? Of course not. Are you always going to be able to cover the cost of that unexpected blown radiator on your car? Of course not. The point is you figure it out. Maybe you have to work out a payment plan. Maybe you put it on a credit card. Whatever. This whole people use the system and don't pay for it thing is a red herring. Last I checked the hospital, like anywhere else is capable of billing you.

See, here is the problem. It's a wonderful idea to say people can work out a payment plan or put it on a credit card. Unfortunately, in many cases we're not talking about a $300 radiator repair. My wife had leukemia and eventually lost her battle. Her medical bills, for the ten months she fought for her life, came to over $1.3 million. I don't know too many people who can afford a payment plan on $1.3 million.

I have no problem with the idea that people should pay out of pocket for basic medical care. But catastrophic insurance is needed for everyone should the worst happen. The problem we keep getting back to is that if people choose not to insure themselves when they are healthy, then should insurance companies be expected to cover them when they become sick?

Of course, in my case, the insurance companies denied me because I had to move out of state. I had insurance in one state, and when I moved, I was denied due to pre-existing conditions, and this was with the same company I had been insured with in the beginning. Part of the blame here falls on the politicians. Had they included individual policies for the self-employed in the HIPAA regulations, then this issue wouldn't exist. But here again, regulations must be put in place to force the insurance companies to do the right thing, because once you become sick in any way, they no longer want you. And if they can find a way to dump you, they will.

The worst thing about all of this is the simple fact that we are paying way too much for most services. And that is the fault of the insurance companies and providers both. All of my treatments to cover my health issues are now costing me 25% of what the insurance company paid when I was insured. Lab tests, trips to the infusion center, ultrasounds, and more, I pay cash and it only costs a quarter of what was being paid when I was insured.

If we could figure out why this is, maybe we might find the answer that would begin to bring these costs down, and then getting everyone covered wouldn't be such an issue financially.

 

[RDD_1210]

Simple solution: if you don't have insurance and you get sick, you don't get treatment. In order to receive treatment, you must show an ability to pay within a set amount of time. If you don't have the money, no treatment. And if you die, tough shit.

I have heard many people here state that they don't need health insurance because they are healthy. If they do get sick, then they will pay for it out of pocket, lmao. This is their right. I don't have a problem with that, they just shouldn't receive any treatment they can't pay for. The way it works now, these conservatives who demand their right not to be forced into purchasing insurance, will use the system to their advantage should they become sick. Then it will be their right for us to pay for them?

I see some people are slowly catching on to the novel idea of paying for service rendered.........

Are you always going to be able to cover the cost of some unexpected health problem out of pocket? Of course not. Are you always going to be able to cover the cost of that unexpected blown radiator on your car? Of course not. The point is you figure it out. Maybe you have to work out a payment plan. Maybe you put it on a credit card. Whatever. This whole people use the system and don't pay for it thing is a red herring. Last I checked the hospital, like anywhere else is capable of billing you.

See, here is the problem. It's a wonderful idea to say people can work out a payment plan or put it on a credit card. Unfortunately, in many cases we're not talking about a $300 radiator repair. My wife had leukemia and eventually lost her battle. Her medical bills, for the ten months she fought for her life, came to over $1.3 million. I don't know too many people who can afford a payment plan on $1.3 million.

Sorry to hear this. I too lost my wife to Leukemia after an 11 month battle. Her bills even AFTER insurance paid what they felt was acceptable came to close to $400k. This was with EXCELLENT coverage. The system was and IS broken. Unfortunately there is no magic bullet fix, but something needed to be done.

 

[Bern80]

See, here is the problem. It's a wonderful idea to say people can work out a payment plan or put it on a credit card. Unfortunately, in many cases we're not talking about a $300 radiator repair. My wife had leukemia and eventually lost her battle. Her medical bills, for the ten months she fought for her life, came to over $1.3 million. I don't know too many people who can afford a payment plan on $1.3 million.

Small world on the leukemia front it appears. I had it when I was four. I will have to look at the tally at see what my total bills were back in 85. Somehow my parents managed without being in debt up to their eyeballs to this day. Maybe that's why I think the way I do. Somehow they avoided catastrophic financial problems from a catastrophic illness AND support my younger brother and sister. So it is manageable.

I have no problem with the idea that people should pay out of pocket for basic medical care. But catastrophic insurance is needed for everyone should the worst happen. The problem we keep getting back to is that if people choose not to insure themselves when they are healthy, then should insurance companies be expected to cover them when they become sick?

First I don't have any sympathy for those people that have a catastrophic event and didn't insure themselves. I made the point before that no one can see into the future and predict when something bad will happen to them. That doesn't change the fact that you know the possibility exists and thus there is no excuse for not planning for it. If we're going to reform the system a good first step is for everyone to get through their heads that one way or the other you have to pay for services that someone else provides. While one may not believe such an event will happen to them they do know that if they are not insured, it probably isn't going to be cheap.

Part of this argument is principle. And it seems that the argument is, 'well since pretty much everyone would insure themselves anyway, it's okay to require them to purchase it'. There are a number of problems with that mentality. One, it is uconstitutional. Two, it keeps the industry and politicians from having to really work the problem. Three, It's yet anoher case of slowly eroding our freedoms. Taking away people's choice simply because know the vast majority are going to choose A over B is slippery slope.

Of course, in my case, the insurance companies denied me because I had to move out of state. I had insurance in one state, and when I moved, I was denied due to pre-existing conditions, and this was with the same company I had been insured with in the beginning. Part of the blame here falls on the politicians. Had they included individual policies for the self-employed in the HIPAA regulations, then this issue wouldn't exist. But here again, regulations must be put in place to force the insurance companies to do the right thing, because once you become sick in any way, they no longer want you. And if they can find a way to dump you, they will.

This again is where I don't see why people think the insurance companies are some entity that can somehow defy basic rules of economics. See a lot of people think making money is about greed and that money is made by big corporations like insurance companies by screwing people over. This simply isn't true. Successful companies that make money year after year adhere to a different rule of making money in the free market; DO WHAT YOUR CUSTOMERS WANT. Are there some regulations that maybe protect the insured from the insurer? But that vast majority of regulations keep insurance companies from having to compete and keep would be insurers out of the market place because of the endless red tape. You really want insurance companies to get better? You wanna know what would REALLY scare them? It would be if the government got out of the way, And I mean all of the way out of the way. Make them sink or swim on their own. You can't tell me there isn't a market out there for better options in health plans. If the regulations weren't there I would open the doors to a catastrophic coverage only insurance plan tomorrow. You agree to pay everything else. We'll cover cancer. Tell me I wouldn't make money hand over fist.

The worst thing about all of this is the simple fact that we are paying way too much for most services. And that is the fault of the insurance companies and providers both. All of my treatments to cover my health issues are now costing me 25% of what the insurance company paid when I was insured. Lab tests, trips to the infusion center, ultrasounds, and more, I pay cash and it only costs a quarter of what was being paid when I was insured.

You're right, paying out of pocket for service usually costs less than doing it through an insurance company. so why do you want to perpetuate those higher costs by not even giving people the option. These are the real problems of health care, and what is frustrating to no end is no one in washington either gets it or wants to talk about them. set up and FSA instead for your yearly medical stuff and pay for it out of pocket that way, many employers have something like that and it is usually pre-tax.

 

[rdean]

Republicans like getting screwed by health care companies.

 

[Avatar4321]

Of course it is. How can giving the government the power to ration care turn into a good thing?

 

[Avatar4321]

Republicans like getting screwed by health care companies.

Beats dropping dead because of the Government.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Republicans like getting screwed by health care companies.

And Obamacare changed this how? I see nothing that lowered or made any attempt to lower the actual cost of health care. And I believe that is what the original thought was supposed to be.

 

[RDD_1210]

Republicans like getting screwed by health care companies.

Beats dropping dead because of the Government.

LOL, How will this happen exactly? The utter misinformation and lies about this healthcare bill is truly amazing.

 

[Bern80]

Republicans like getting screwed by health care companies.

Beats dropping dead because of the Government.

LOL, How will this happen exactly? The utter misinformation and lies about this healthcare bill is truly amazing.

I'm gonna go with basic rules of supply and demand.

 

[RDD_1210]

Beats dropping dead because of the Government.

LOL, How will this happen exactly? The utter misinformation and lies about this healthcare bill is truly amazing.

I'm gonna go with basic rules of supply and demand.

And the government will determine this how?

 

[Bern80]

LOL, How will this happen exactly? The utter misinformation and lies about this healthcare bill is truly amazing.

I'm gonna go with basic rules of supply and demand.

And the government will determine this how?

I think your mind is stuck. You seem to be of the mind set of 'how will government do this', or 'how will government do that'. What you need to be asking yourself is SHOULD government being doing any of those things? Do they have the constitutional authority to do any of those things.

When the other poster says better than dropping dead because of the government, one way that can happen because of this bill is because suppossedly the demand for service will increase. But do we have the supply side resources in place to meet that demand? Or will we all on avg. be waiting longer to see the doctor?