Is Obama Strong Enough?

[Sinatra]

This pirate-hostage crisis may well prove the first true test of Obama's international street cred - so far his performance has been less than stellar. His European tour had more in common with a Britney Spears tour than actual international regard - while a popular figure, he has yet to earn true respect.

Michael Goodwin offers some insight into this situation, tagging Obama as utilizing a "Kumbaya approach" to foreign relations...

Is Barack tough enough to lead the world? Early signs are mixed

 

[xsited1]

no

 

[HUGGY]

This pirate-hostage crisis may well prove the first true test of Obama's international street cred - so far his performance has been less than stellar. His European tour had more in common with a Britney Spears tour than actual international regard - while a popular figure, he has yet to earn true respect.

Michael Goodwin offers some insight into this situation, tagging Obama as utilizing a "Kumbaya approach" to foreign relations...

Is Barack tough enough to lead the world? Early signs are mixed

The question should be is Obama smart enough to get the captain freed. Captain freed..chalk another in the Obama win colomn. Too bad Sinatra I know you wanted the captain killed to justify your distorted politics.

I will not take down my comment because That would be chicken shit. I do apologise to Sinatra for putting it up.

 

[Sinatra]

Just received report that the captain has been freed and the pirates killed.

That is excellent news.

Kudos to our military for once again proving their capabilities as the single greatest fighting force on this planet, and kudos to the president for having the courage to give the go ahead for the action. I hope we now take a very hard stance on this pirating issue - blow those boats right out of the water.

A wonderful Easter for the family of that captain.

 

[JimCo]

Just received report that the captain has been freed and the pirates killed.

That is excellent news.

Kudos to our military for once again proving their capabilities as the single greatest fighting force on this planet, and kudos to the president for having the courage to give the go ahead for the action. I hope we now take a very hard stance on this pirating issue - blow those boats right out of the water.

A wonderful Easter for the family of that captain.

Do you even understand the whys of the Somali piracy, why it all started? There are thousands of fishing boats out there at any one time, most are just fishing with pirates hiding amongst them just waiting for a target of opportunity. So while it may seem the answer is to just go in and shoot the pirates ... that is easier said than done.

History


Due to the clan-based organization of Somalia and the lack of a central government, combined with Somalia's location at the Horn of Africa, conditions were ripe for the growth of piracy in the early 1990s. Since the collapse of the state, boats illegally fishing in Somali waters were a common sight. Pirates at first were interested in securing the waters before businessmen and militias became involved. Acts of piracy temporarily subsided following the rise of the Islamic Courts Union in 2006. However, pirate activity began to increase after Ethiopia invaded Somalia in December 2006.

During the Siad Barre regime, Somalia received aid from Denmark, Great Britain, Iraq, Japan, Sweden, USSR and West Germany to develop their fishing industry. The fishing industry comprised either cooperatives which had fixed prices for the catch, which was often exported due to the low demand for seafood in Somalia. Aid money improved the ships and supported the construction of maintenance facilities.[16] After the Barre regime the income from fishing decreased due to the civil war. Some pirates are former fishermen, who argue that foreign ships are threatening their livelihood by fishing in Somali waters. After seeing the profitability of piracy, since ransoms are usually paid, warlords began to facilitate pirate activities, splitting the profits with the pirates.[17] In most of the hijackings, the bandits have not harmed their prisoners.[18] The attackers generally treat their hostages well in anticipation of a big payday to the point of hiring caterers on the shores of Somalia to cook spaghetti, grilled fish and roasted meat that will appeal to a Western palate. They also keep a steady supply of cigarettes and drinks from the shops on shore.[19]

Background to piracy

Following the massive tsunami of December 2004, there have also emerged allegations that after the outbreak of the Somali Civil War in the late 1980s, Somalia's long, remote shoreline was used as a dump site for the disposal of toxic waste. The huge waves which battered northern Somalia after the tsunami are believed to have stirred up tonnes of nuclear and toxic waste that was illegally dumped in the country by several European firms. The European Green Party followed up these revelations by presenting before the press and the European Parliament in Strasbourg copies of contracts signed by two European companies -- the Italian Swiss firm, Achair Partners, and an Italian waste broker, Progresso -- and representatives of the warlords then in power, to accept 10 million tonnes of toxic waste in exchange for $80 million (then about £60 million). According to reports by the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP), the waste has resulted in far higher than normal cases of respiratory infections, mouth ulcers and bleeding, abdominal haemorrhages and unusual skin infections among many inhabitants of the areas around the northeastern towns of Hobbio and Benadir on the Indian Ocean coast -- diseases consistent with radiation sickness. UNEP continues that the current situation along the Somali coastline poses a very serious environmental hazard not only in Somalia but also in the eastern Africa sub-region.[28][29] At the same time, illegal trawlers began fishing Somalia's seas with an estimated $300 million of tuna, shrimp, and lobster being taken each year depleting stocks previously available to local fishermen. Through interception with speedboats, Somali fishermen tried to either dissuade the dumpers and trawlers or levy a "tax" on them as compensation. In an interview, Sugule Ali, one of the pirate leaders explained "We don't consider ourselves sea bandits. We consider sea bandits (to be) those who illegally fish and dump in our seas." Peter Lehr, a Somalia piracy expert at the University of St. Andrews says "It's almost like a resource swap, Somalis collect up to $100 million a year from pirate ransoms off their coasts and the Europeans and Asians poach around $300 million a year in fish from Somali waters."[30][31]

 

[Xenophon]

Taking out pirates is easy, running the nation is hard.

Time will tell if he is or not, he failed to stand up to queen nan and passed some abominal spending bills, the future does not bode well.

 

[FactFinder]

Just received report that the captain has been freed and the pirates killed.

That is excellent news.

Kudos to our military for once again proving their capabilities as the single greatest fighting force on this planet, and kudos to the president for having the courage to give the go ahead for the action. I hope we now take a very hard stance on this pirating issue - blow those boats right out of the water.

A wonderful Easter for the family of that captain.

Do you even understand the whys of the Somali piracy, why it all started? There are thousands of fishing boats out there at any one time, most are just fishing with pirates hiding amongst them just waiting for a target of opportunity. So while it may seem the answer is to just go in and shoot the pirates ... that is easier said than done.

History


Due to the clan-based organization of Somalia and the lack of a central government, combined with Somalia's location at the Horn of Africa, conditions were ripe for the growth of piracy in the early 1990s. Since the collapse of the state, boats illegally fishing in Somali waters were a common sight. Pirates at first were interested in securing the waters before businessmen and militias became involved. Acts of piracy temporarily subsided following the rise of the Islamic Courts Union in 2006. However, pirate activity began to increase after Ethiopia invaded Somalia in December 2006.

During the Siad Barre regime, Somalia received aid from Denmark, Great Britain, Iraq, Japan, Sweden, USSR and West Germany to develop their fishing industry. The fishing industry comprised either cooperatives which had fixed prices for the catch, which was often exported due to the low demand for seafood in Somalia. Aid money improved the ships and supported the construction of maintenance facilities.[16] After the Barre regime the income from fishing decreased due to the civil war. Some pirates are former fishermen, who argue that foreign ships are threatening their livelihood by fishing in Somali waters. After seeing the profitability of piracy, since ransoms are usually paid, warlords began to facilitate pirate activities, splitting the profits with the pirates.[17] In most of the hijackings, the bandits have not harmed their prisoners.[18] The attackers generally treat their hostages well in anticipation of a big payday to the point of hiring caterers on the shores of Somalia to cook spaghetti, grilled fish and roasted meat that will appeal to a Western palate. They also keep a steady supply of cigarettes and drinks from the shops on shore.[19]

Background to piracy

Following the massive tsunami of December 2004, there have also emerged allegations that after the outbreak of the Somali Civil War in the late 1980s, Somalia's long, remote shoreline was used as a dump site for the disposal of toxic waste. The huge waves which battered northern Somalia after the tsunami are believed to have stirred up tonnes of nuclear and toxic waste that was illegally dumped in the country by several European firms. The European Green Party followed up these revelations by presenting before the press and the European Parliament in Strasbourg copies of contracts signed by two European companies -- the Italian Swiss firm, Achair Partners, and an Italian waste broker, Progresso -- and representatives of the warlords then in power, to accept 10 million tonnes of toxic waste in exchange for $80 million (then about £60 million). According to reports by the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP), the waste has resulted in far higher than normal cases of respiratory infections, mouth ulcers and bleeding, abdominal haemorrhages and unusual skin infections among many inhabitants of the areas around the northeastern towns of Hobbio and Benadir on the Indian Ocean coast -- diseases consistent with radiation sickness. UNEP continues that the current situation along the Somali coastline poses a very serious environmental hazard not only in Somalia but also in the eastern Africa sub-region.[28][29] At the same time, illegal trawlers began fishing Somalia's seas with an estimated $300 million of tuna, shrimp, and lobster being taken each year depleting stocks previously available to local fishermen. Through interception with speedboats, Somali fishermen tried to either dissuade the dumpers and trawlers or levy a "tax" on them as compensation. In an interview, Sugule Ali, one of the pirate leaders explained "We don't consider ourselves sea bandits. We consider sea bandits (to be) those who illegally fish and dump in our seas." Peter Lehr, a Somalia piracy expert at the University of St. Andrews says "It's almost like a resource swap, Somalis collect up to $100 million a year from pirate ransoms off their coasts and the Europeans and Asians poach around $300 million a year in fish from Somali waters."[30][31]

The problem with that is those aren't the ships they have been pirating.

 

[Meister]

Harry reid, and Nancy Pelosi are a thorn in Obama's side. Unless he can keep them reeled in...He isn't going to be percieved as strong, in my eyes. Just sayin....

 

[Sinatra]

On this day, I give thanks to Obama for allowing the military to do its job.

As our attention turns back to the economy, concerns remain regarding this President, but today, he gets a reprive from me.

Or at least for the next hour...

 

[dilloduck]

On this day, I give thanks to Obama for allowing the military to do its job.

As our attention turns back to the economy, concerns remain regarding this President, but today, he gets a reprive from me.

Or at least for the next hour...

How about the rest of the military ? Will he let them finish the job too ?

 

[Sinatra]

On this day, I give thanks to Obama for allowing the military to do its job.

As our attention turns back to the economy, concerns remain regarding this President, but today, he gets a reprive from me.

Or at least for the next hour...

How about the rest of the military ? Will he let them finish the job too ?

I hear ya...

 

[krotchdog]

Yep, I thank Obama for stepping aside, even though Obama is the Commander in Chief of the military. I thank a guy that knows he is out of his league and steps aside letting real men do thier job.

Great point whoever made it.

 

[Dr Grump]

Yep, I thank Obama for stepping aside, even though Obama is the Commander in Chief of the military. I thank a guy that knows he is out of his league and steps aside letting real men do thier job.

Great point whoever made it.

If only the last guy in the Oval office knew this too. After all, his mistakes of yesterday have turned into Obama's problems of today...

 

[jillian]

Yep, I thank Obama for stepping aside, even though Obama is the Commander in Chief of the military. I thank a guy that knows he is out of his league and steps aside letting real men do thier job.

Great point whoever made it.

A good CinC makes policy and lets the people who know what they're doing effectuate that policy.

If the mission had failed, the rightwingnuts would have blamed him... I can see all the "Obama is the new Cater" threads that would have polluted the board.

 

[Meister]

Yep, I thank Obama for stepping aside, even though Obama is the Commander in Chief of the military. I thank a guy that knows he is out of his league and steps aside letting real men do thier job.

Great point whoever made it.

If only the last guy in the Oval office knew this too. After all, his mistakes of yesterday have turned into Obama's problems of today...

Every incoming administration has to clean up from the last one, Grump. Are you saying this is unique?

 

[krotchdog]

Yep, I thank Obama for stepping aside, even though Obama is the Commander in Chief of the military. I thank a guy that knows he is out of his league and steps aside letting real men do thier job.

Great point whoever made it.

If only the last guy in the Oval office knew this too. After all, his mistakes of yesterday have turned into Obama's problems of today...

I got no problem with your post, I actually agree. You think my post about Obama means I am automatically pro-bush, that just shows you dont think for yourself or you are just plain old screwed up.

After 9/11 Bush did not act forcefully enough, yes sending the special forces to clean the clocks was right, taking out Iraq was way over due. Letting the people loot and destroy was weak, not listening to Rumsfeld (the greates part of Bush) was a mistake, not marching the troops into Syria big mistake, not taking our Iran bigger mistake, kissing and holding hands with The King of Slaves is just plain old appeasment and that is our problem.

Now do you got something intelligent to ad.

thank me, I educated you.

 

[krotchdog]

Yep, I thank Obama for stepping aside, even though Obama is the Commander in Chief of the military. I thank a guy that knows he is out of his league and steps aside letting real men do thier job.

Great point whoever made it.

A good CinC makes policy and lets the people who know what they're doing effectuate that policy.

If the mission had failed, the rightwingnuts would have blamed him... I can see all the "Obama is the new Cater" threads that would have polluted the board.

You said what, care to repeat that a little clearer. A good citizen blindly follows the leader and defends him despite lacking insight or understanding.

Yep, we are nuts when we see acts of war described as a crime, when we see Obama order the Navy to stand down, yep we are the nuts, it never should of happened, Obama should put all tyrants and failed governments on notice. Obama should be the greatest president ever and make us proud but he wont, not because he is weak but because he is more interested in money.

Obama called our importation of oil an addiction and than bowed to the king of slaves, thats right obama bowed to the king of slaves, to a king with dozens of slaves, woman, who cannot travel outside the country, who must cover thier face in public, woman who are sold to the king when they are little girls and impregenated before they finish puberty, thats who Obama bowed to and the next day moslem terrorist take americans hostage.

A leader leads, Obama said nothing, Bush sucked too, he appeased the king, and that is the big secret of why theres problems in the middle east

now thank me, I educated you

 

[Dr Grump]

Every incoming administration has to clean up from the last one, Grump. Are you saying this is unique?

I know. And as much as Carter can take the blame for the Iranian hostages that Raygun had to clean up, then Bush can take the blame for the mess in Iraq and the economy. I have no issue with people giving Obama crap for how he is going to solve the problem (if they disagree with his issues), but I do have a problem with people expecting him to fix it overnight and somehow this mess is his doing..

 

[JimCo]

But it is the beginning to understanding why piracy has arisen recently in this part of the world. Which is then a clue on what steps can be taken to stop it. The right wing is of the belief that negotiating with your enemy is to show weakness. Forgetting the fact that the use of force and detentions/torture in Iraq did not slow down the insurgency. It was only when Petraeus was brought in that he started addressing and fixing the causes of the insurgency. Even going so far as to negotiate with insurgents that had killed US soldiers. The Anbar awakening and negotiating with terrorists, actually paying them to quit killing our soldiers, were part of the reasons that the surge worked.

So we could spend more money by putting more warships in the area, shipping companies can go farther out their way at a greater cost to avoid the pirates. But spending money there, still doesn't solve the problem that Somalia is a failed state ... so why not instead figure out what the problem is and then spend money in such a way that they no longer need to turn to piracy?

 

[krotchdog]

Obama did not inherit this mess, he was a US Senator, four years in the Senate, he had every oppurtunity to do something, to try and change a policy or offer a better idea yet he did not. This is Obama's fifth year in Washington D.C.

We can give presidents a bit of a break before the Cold war ended, now that the USSR threat is gone we quit appeasing the Moslem world.

Obama did not inherit this mess, he bought it, he helped make it, his cabinet is made up of nothing but appeasers that have been in politice for the last thirty years, he even has Clinton so you must take his cabinet and his government and his career as a whole. Only than will you be looking at the big picture.

There, I educated you some more, thank me.