Is Obama Really this Stupid?

[Toro]

I just read this, so if there is another thread on the topic, my apologies and would ask the mods to merge it. Also, if this is wrong, and any of the liberals / Dems want to refute it, please do so. Because, frankly, I find it stunning that this is true. I can't believe the Democrat party would do something this stupid. (Of course, the conservatives will replay "Why not?")

With gaffe-a-day-Romney and Barack Oncompetent the two candidates, it could be an interesting battle of two guys dueling to shoot themselves in the head faster than the other guy.

The president signed off on a Health and Human Services ruling that says that under ObamaCare, Catholic institutions—including charities, hospitals and schools—will be required by law, for the first time ever, to provide and pay for insurance coverage that includes contraceptives, abortion-inducing drugs and sterilization procedures. If they do not, they will face ruinous fines in the millions of dollars. Or they can always go out of business.

In other words, the Catholic Church was told this week that its institutions can't be Catholic anymore.

I invite you to imagine the moment we are living in without the church's charities, hospitals and schools. And if you know anything about those organizations, you know it is a fantasy that they can afford millions in fines.

There was no reason to make this ruling—none. Except ideology.

The conscience clause, which keeps the church itself from having to bow to such decisions, has always been assumed to cover the church's institutions.

Now the church is fighting back. Priests in an estimated 70% of parishes last Sunday came forward to read strongly worded protests from the church's bishops. The ruling asks the church to abandon Catholic principles and beliefs; it is an abridgment of the First Amendment; it is not acceptable. They say they will not bow to it. They should never bow to it, not only because they are Catholic and cannot be told to take actions that deny their faith, but because they are citizens of the United States.

If they stay strong and fight, they will win. This is in fact a potentially unifying moment for American Catholics, long split left, right and center. Catholic conservatives will immediately and fully oppose the administration's decision. But Catholic liberals, who feel embarrassed and undercut, have also come out in opposition.

The church is split on many things. But do Catholics in the pews want the government telling their church to contravene its beliefs? A president affronting the leadership of the church, and blithely threatening its great institutions? No, they don't want that. They will unite against that.

The smallest part of this story is political. There are 77.7 million Catholics in the United States. In 2008 they made up 27% of the electorate, about 35 million people. Mr. Obama carried the Catholic vote, 54% to 45%. They helped him win.

They won't this year. And guess where a lot of Catholics live? In the battleground states.

There was no reason to pick this fight. It reflects political incompetence on a scale so great as to make Mitt Romney's gaffes a little bitty thing.

There was nothing for the president to gain, except, perhaps, the pleasure of making a great church bow to him.

Enjoy it while you can. You have awakened a sleeping giant.

A Battle the President Can't Win - WSJ.com

 

[Cuyo]

I'm disappointed to hear you say "Democrat party." You're generally above that sort of thing.

And my understanding is that it's a statement that "Catholic run institutions" are subject to the same regulation as other businesses if a certain amount of employees are not in fact Catholic.

It's also my understanding that churches are exempt.

 

[California Girl]

There is at least one thread about it, but you are not wrong. The Bishops have written to their parishes about it. 36million Catholic registered voters in the US... and he decides it's a good thing to take us on. He's not only an idiot, he's crossing the fucking line between Church and State.

If this stands, Catholic institutions - including hospitals and schools - will be forced to close their doors to non-Catholics. Given that we fund services for Americas most poverty stricken.... I find it fucking outrageous.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Yes, he's THAT devoted to government

 

[California Girl]

I'm disappointed to hear you say "Democrat party." You're generally above that sort of thing.

And my understanding is that it's a statement that "Catholic run institutions" are subject to the same regulation as other businesses if a certain amount of employees are not in fact Catholic.

It's also my understanding that churches are exempt.

But their employer is the Catholic Church - and birth control is against our religion - particularly abortion - which is abhorrent to us. It is, to Catholics, murder.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I'm disappointed to hear you say "Democrat party." You're generally above that sort of thing.

And my understanding is that it's a statement that "Catholic run institutions" are subject to the same regulation as other businesses if a certain amount of employees are not in fact Catholic.

It's also my understanding that churches are exempt.

The last time Obama tried understanding that church's cannot make their own rules the Supreme Court ruled against him unanimously.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

I'm disappointed to hear you say "Democrat party." You're generally above that sort of thing.

And my understanding is that it's a statement that "Catholic run institutions" are subject to the same regulation as other businesses if a certain amount of employees are not in fact Catholic.

It's also my understanding that churches are exempt.

O is in the democrat party.

 

[Steelplate]

Real Simple... Catholic based Hospitals don't want to take part in the AHA? Fine... No Federal funds...saves the taxpayers money, I guess.

 

[Toro]

I'm disappointed to hear you say "Democrat party." You're generally above that sort of thing.

And my understanding is that it's a statement that "Catholic run institutions" are subject to the same regulation as other businesses if a certain amount of employees are not in fact Catholic.

It's also my understanding that churches are exempt.

If the party at large is against this, then I retract that line.

Are they?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Catholics have no First Amendment rights

 

[bigrebnc1775]

There is at least one thread about it, but you are not wrong. The Bishops have written to their parishes about it. 36million Catholic registered voters in the US... and he decides it's a good thing to take us on. He's not only an idiot, he's crossing the fucking line between Church and State.

If this stands, Catholic institutions - including hospitals and schools - will be forced to close their doors to non-Catholics. Given that we fund services for Americas most poverty stricken.... I find it fucking outrageous.

Is anyone surprised at how arrogant obama is?

 

[DaGoose]

There is at least one thread about it, but you are not wrong. The Bishops have written to their parishes about it. 36million Catholic registered voters in the US... and he decides it's a good thing to take us on. He's not only an idiot, he's crossing the fucking line between Church and State.

If this stands, Catholic institutions - including hospitals and schools - will be forced to close their doors to non-Catholics. Given that we fund services for Americas most poverty stricken.... I find it fucking outrageous.

I too find it wrong and STRONGLY disagree with Obama on this. Hopefully it gets turned around because it's not helping his case at all.

 

[California Girl]

Real Simple... Catholic based Hospitals don't want to take part in the AHA? Fine... No Federal funds...saves the taxpayers money, I guess.

Beware the law of unintended consequences. Yes, they get medicare and medicaid... but the Church itself also provides vast amounts of funding - and they treat absolutely anyone, regardless for race, color or creed. If the government had to take up the slack left by this stupidity.... that money's gonna have to be found from somewhere. Don't you think this country is in enough shit without idiots creating more?

It's not gonna 'save' taxpayers money, you fucking idiot.... it's gonna cost even more. Does simple math elude you?

 

[Paulie]

I'm disappointed to hear you say "Democrat party." You're generally above that sort of thing.

And my understanding is that it's a statement that "Catholic run institutions" are subject to the same regulation as other businesses if a certain amount of employees are not in fact Catholic.

It's also my understanding that churches are exempt.

But their employer is the Catholic Church - and birth control is against our religion - particularly abortion - which is abhorrent to us. It is, to Catholics, murder.

I don't understand why birth control is against religion. Millions of sperm die whether one ever gets to fertilze an egg or not. And an egg gets wasted every month in the absence of pregnancy, whether birth control is utilized or not. Nothing is really happening any differently with contraception.

 

[Steelplate]

Real Simple... Catholic based Hospitals don't want to take part in the AHA? Fine... No Federal funds...saves the taxpayers money, I guess.

Beware the law of unintended consequences. Yes, they get medicare and medicaid... but the Church itself also provides vast amounts of funding - and they treat absolutely anyone, regardless for race, color or creed. If the government had to take up the slack left by this stupidity.... that money's gonna have to be found from somewhere. Don't you think this country is in enough shit without idiots creating more?

It's not gonna 'save' taxpayers money, you fucking idiot.... it's gonna cost even more. Does simple math elude you?

What's wrong with them having those birth control measures on hand, but discouraging their use?

Kind of like what PLANNED PARENTHOOD does with abortions. A woman comes in for an abortion, they educate her on her choices, provide viable alternatives, and if she still demands an abortion... they give her one.

But of course, you probably don't believe the last paragraph, because you've been told that all Planned Parenthood does is abort fetuses.

 

[DaGoose]

I'm disappointed to hear you say "Democrat party." You're generally above that sort of thing.

And my understanding is that it's a statement that "Catholic run institutions" are subject to the same regulation as other businesses if a certain amount of employees are not in fact Catholic.

It's also my understanding that churches are exempt.

But their employer is the Catholic Church - and birth control is against our religion - particularly abortion - which is abhorrent to us. It is, to Catholics, murder.

I don't understand why birth control is against religion. Millions of sperm die whether one ever gets to fertilze an egg or not. And an egg gets wasted every month in the absence of pregnancy, whether birth control is utilized or not. Nothing is really happening any differently with contraception.

I too disagree that birth control is wrong. But they choose to make it one of their tenets and as such should be forced to go against them.

Obama is WRONG about this, plain and simple.

 

[Paulie]

But their employer is the Catholic Church - and birth control is against our religion - particularly abortion - which is abhorrent to us. It is, to Catholics, murder.

I don't understand why birth control is against religion. Millions of sperm die whether one ever gets to fertilze an egg or not. And an egg gets wasted every month in the absence of pregnancy, whether birth control is utilized or not. Nothing is really happening any differently with contraception.

I too disagree that birth control is wrong. But they choose to make it one of their tenets and as such should be forced to go against them.

Obama is WRONG about this, plain and simple.

There's a family of mormons that were featured on some show on TLC or whatever channel, and they had 5 or 6 children and I think all but 1 of them were autistic. You would think after the 2nd one, something might be wrong and you'd stop having kids. But no. They don't believe in contraception so they feel that belief trumps the belief that they should just stop fucking and bringing more autistic kids into the world when the odds seem to be that they will if they don't stop what they're doing.

It's fucking sad.

 

[MeBelle]

Real Simple... Catholic based Hospitals don't want to take part in the AHA? Fine... No Federal funds...saves the taxpayers money, I guess.

Catholic hospitals are non-profit.
They treat everyone and anyone, regardless of ability to pay.

If you want to champion federal reimbursement be withheld, this indeed will be a
disgrace to America and anyone fighting for the poor to have access to healthcare.

 

[Sarah G]

I just read this, so if there is another thread on the topic, my apologies and would ask the mods to merge it. Also, if this is wrong, and any of the liberals / Dems want to refute it, please do so. Because, frankly, I find it stunning that this is true. I can't believe the Democrat party would do something this stupid. (Of course, the conservatives will replay "Why not?")

With gaffe-a-day-Romney and Barack Oncompetent the two candidates, it could be an interesting battle of two guys dueling to shoot themselves in the head faster than the other guy.

The president signed off on a Health and Human Services ruling that says that under ObamaCare, Catholic institutions—including charities, hospitals and schools—will be required by law, for the first time ever, to provide and pay for insurance coverage that includes contraceptives, abortion-inducing drugs and sterilization procedures. If they do not, they will face ruinous fines in the millions of dollars. Or they can always go out of business.

In other words, the Catholic Church was told this week that its institutions can't be Catholic anymore.

I invite you to imagine the moment we are living in without the church's charities, hospitals and schools. And if you know anything about those organizations, you know it is a fantasy that they can afford millions in fines.

There was no reason to make this ruling—none. Except ideology.

The conscience clause, which keeps the church itself from having to bow to such decisions, has always been assumed to cover the church's institutions.

Now the church is fighting back. Priests in an estimated 70% of parishes last Sunday came forward to read strongly worded protests from the church's bishops. The ruling asks the church to abandon Catholic principles and beliefs; it is an abridgment of the First Amendment; it is not acceptable. They say they will not bow to it. They should never bow to it, not only because they are Catholic and cannot be told to take actions that deny their faith, but because they are citizens of the United States.

If they stay strong and fight, they will win. This is in fact a potentially unifying moment for American Catholics, long split left, right and center. Catholic conservatives will immediately and fully oppose the administration's decision. But Catholic liberals, who feel embarrassed and undercut, have also come out in opposition.

The church is split on many things. But do Catholics in the pews want the government telling their church to contravene its beliefs? A president affronting the leadership of the church, and blithely threatening its great institutions? No, they don't want that. They will unite against that.

The smallest part of this story is political. There are 77.7 million Catholics in the United States. In 2008 they made up 27% of the electorate, about 35 million people. Mr. Obama carried the Catholic vote, 54% to 45%. They helped him win.

They won't this year. And guess where a lot of Catholics live? In the battleground states.

There was no reason to pick this fight. It reflects political incompetence on a scale so great as to make Mitt Romney's gaffes a little bitty thing.

There was nothing for the president to gain, except, perhaps, the pleasure of making a great church bow to him.

Enjoy it while you can. You have awakened a sleeping giant.

A Battle the President Can't Win - WSJ.com

A lot of catholics also use contraceptives, have sex before marriage and go against the church on a lot of their issues.

They shouldn't have to offer to pay for contraceptives through their insurance but how will they change that part of the bill for catholics/christians only? It could be more trouble than it is worth.

I suspect they will find a way.

 

[DaGoose]

I don't understand why birth control is against religion. Millions of sperm die whether one ever gets to fertilze an egg or not. And an egg gets wasted every month in the absence of pregnancy, whether birth control is utilized or not. Nothing is really happening any differently with contraception.

I too disagree that birth control is wrong. But they choose to make it one of their tenets and as such should be forced to go against them.

Obama is WRONG about this, plain and simple.

There's a family of mormons that were featured on some show on TLC or whatever channel, and they had 5 or 6 children and I think all but 1 of them were autistic. You would think after the 2nd one, something might be wrong and you'd stop having kids. But no. They don't believe in contraception so they feel that belief trumps the belief that they should just stop fucking and bringing more autistic kids into the world when the odds seem to be that they will if they don't stop what they're doing.

It's fucking sad.

Which is why I believe in contraceptives and have no clue how they would justify that in the Bible.

But it is what it is and there's no way Obama should be pushing this issue.