Is nation building progressive or conservative?

[naturegirl]

Here's one example, there are many others.

When the Poughkeepsie Journal in New York did a 2006 analysis of how names of deceased people were still on New York's official list of registered voters, it conducted the assessment by matching "the names, dates of birth and ZIP codes of all listed voters in New York's database of 11.7 million voter registration records against the same information in the Social Security Administration's 'Death Master File,' a database of 77 million records of deaths dating to 1937." That study resulted in a final estimate of as many as 77,000 dead people on its rolls, and that as many as 2,600 of them had cast votes from the grave.[1]

Dead people voting - Ballotpedia

 

[uscitizen]

Seems pretty progressive to me.

It sure as hell isnt the reason we came together for that common defense.


Progressive or conservative, it is a big government function.

Yep the request of private industry is carried out thru big government.

 

[Truthmatters]

Here's one example, there are many others.

When the Poughkeepsie Journal in New York did a 2006 analysis of how names of deceased people were still on New York's official list of registered voters, it conducted the assessment by matching "the names, dates of birth and ZIP codes of all listed voters in New York's database of 11.7 million voter registration records against the same information in the Social Security Administration's 'Death Master File,' a database of 77 million records of deaths dating to 1937." That study resulted in a final estimate of as many as 77,000 dead people on its rolls, and that as many as 2,600 of them had cast votes from the grave.[1]

Dead people voting - Ballotpedia

Ballotpedia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Its a con site you silly woman

In that was NOTHING about the republican consent decree.

If you have a real site on election problems you dont omit some of the biggest cases in the court record of election tampering.

ITS AN UNTRUSTABLE SOURCE!

 

[Sallow]

Here's one example, there are many others.

When the Poughkeepsie Journal in New York did a 2006 analysis of how names of deceased people were still on New York's official list of registered voters, it conducted the assessment by matching "the names, dates of birth and ZIP codes of all listed voters in New York's database of 11.7 million voter registration records against the same information in the Social Security Administration's 'Death Master File,' a database of 77 million records of deaths dating to 1937." That study resulted in a final estimate of as many as 77,000 dead people on its rolls, and that as many as 2,600 of them had cast votes from the grave.[1]

Dead people voting - Ballotpedia

Stop the presses.

According to a conservative blog, since 1937, 2,600 dead people have cast votes?

Something must be done to stop this zombie epidemic!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EbeqPynF2s]The Ultimate Zombie Survival Guide - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Truthmatters]

In 5-Year Effort, Scant Evidence of Voter Fraud - New York Times

 

[Truthmatters]

why do you ignore the biggest and headed by a republican government study we have?

Because you dont care about the truth.

You only care about your party

 

[Nosmo King]

So TDM and Wry Catcher, why don't you give us your progressive ideas on what needs to be done to keep illegal immigrants, dead people, Mickey Mouse and Goofy from voting??

Instead of *itching about what you perceive as a problem how about you give us your ideas for a solution.

Deflecting the issue never works. If the issue was the rare and supposed voter fraud that threatens Republican political power in their minds, then an answer would be needed. Indeed a solution would be proffered.

But the issue is infrastructure. Do Conservatives think that the national infrastructure is not a state matter? Is the condition and repair of our critical infrastructure a matter best solved by the mythical "Market Forces", or should the state spend tax dollars on roads, bridges, water treatment plants and electrical distribution systems?

 

[naturegirl]

why do you ignore the biggest and headed by a republican government study we have?

Because you dont care about the truth.

You only care about your party

Why don't you care about the truth?? Are you OK with dead people voting, even ONE dead person. You aren't being very progressive here TDM. What about illegal immigrants voting?? Why are you OK with that???

In 2005, the U.S. Government Accountability Office found that up to 3 percent of the 30,000 individuals called for jury duty from voter registration rolls over a two-year period in just one U.S. district court were not U.S. citizens. While that may not seem like many, just 3 percent of registered voters would have been more than enough to provide the winning presiden*tial vote margin in Florida in 2000. Indeed, the Cen*sus Bureau estimates that there are over a million illegal aliens in Florida, and the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) has prosecuted more non-citizen voting cases in Florida than in any other state.

The Cutting Edge News

 

[Paulie]

Well-heeled interests building a government on a tract of real estate and calling it a nation for the purpose of efficiently extracting as much resources at the highest profit possible has a certain successful history on this planet, but at what cost?

If 'teaching democracy by setting a good example' is considered Nation Building, I could get behind that.

That is what we were founded to be. A beacon of the democratic process for other nations to aspire to.

Aspire to, or be forced to at gunpoint?

 

[BlindBoo]

Well-heeled interests building a government on a tract of real estate and calling it a nation for the purpose of efficiently extracting as much resources at the highest profit possible has a certain successful history on this planet, but at what cost?

If 'teaching democracy by setting a good example' is considered Nation Building, I could get behind that.

That is what we were founded to be. A beacon of the democratic process for other nations to aspire to.

"...Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. ..."

 

[LibertyForAll]

We have a grid that is an antique, and wastes huge amounts of energy, energy that we need. It no longer goes to where the energy is at, and is extremely vulneble to natural disasters. Our system of pipelines, oil and gas, has a high percentage of pipes that are currently being ran at one half capacity or less because of age and weakness, and explosians and fatalities because of that seem to be an almost monthly occurance.

We need to be doing some major nation building right here at home.

Are you suggesting that the government replace these pipes and energy grids? How is government subsidation of private industries not socialism? Shouldn't the government just get out of the way and let companies invest in their own infrastructure? The costs will still be passed onto consumers in the end but at least it will be fair because only the people who use their services will be charged for it with the charge being based on their rate of use. The way you state it, If I don't drive then I will still have to pay for oil pipelines.

The same with the roads and bridges with my opinion. If you want to use tax dollars to fix roads and bridges that's fine but make it so that its a tax on those that use the roads by having it come from a gasoline tax. This way those that drive pay for the ability to drive while those that don't won't have to pay.

 

[Truthmatters]

why do you ignore the biggest and headed by a republican government study we have?

Because you dont care about the truth.

You only care about your party

Why don't you care about the truth?? Are you OK with dead people voting, even ONE dead person. You aren't being very progressive here TDM. What about illegal immigrants voting?? Why are you OK with that???

In 2005, the U.S. Government Accountability Office found that up to 3 percent of the 30,000 individuals called for jury duty from voter registration rolls over a two-year period in just one U.S. district court were not U.S. citizens. While that may not seem like many, just 3 percent of registered voters would have been more than enough to provide the winning presiden*tial vote margin in Florida in 2000. Indeed, the Cen*sus Bureau estimates that there are over a million illegal aliens in Florida, and the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) has prosecuted more non-citizen voting cases in Florida than in any other state.

The Cutting Edge News

Democrats criticize Bush's FEC nominee - USATODAY.com



The author of that clap trap is a partisan hack

 

[Nosmo King]

We have a grid that is an antique, and wastes huge amounts of energy, energy that we need. It no longer goes to where the energy is at, and is extremely vulneble to natural disasters. Our system of pipelines, oil and gas, has a high percentage of pipes that are currently being ran at one half capacity or less because of age and weakness, and explosians and fatalities because of that seem to be an almost monthly occurance.

We need to be doing some major nation building right here at home.

Are you suggesting that the government replace these pipes and energy grids? How is government subsidation of private industries not socialism? Shouldn't the government just get out of the way and let companies invest in their own infrastructure? The costs will still be passed onto consumers in the end but at least it will be fair because only the people who use their services will be charged for it with the charge being based on their rate of use. The way you state it, If I don't drive then I will still have to pay for oil pipelines.

The same with the roads and bridges with my opinion. If you want to use tax dollars to fix roads and bridges that's fine but make it so that its a tax on those that use the roads by having it come from a gasoline tax. This way those that drive pay for the ability to drive while those that don't won't have to pay.

That might sound good, but once the problems crop up (as they inevitably do), the financial concerns about a pipeline spill out into the community at large. If the investments in infrastructure were maintained and if that infrastructure was under a strict O&M plan, there are only rare instances of failure. But once that company ignores or re-prioritizes or eliminates the budget to maintain pipelines, those bits of private infrastructure become public hazards.

And if you eat a tangerine, ride a bicycle everywhere, use prescription medicine or lace up your tennis shoes, you are using the roads. Without ever buying so much as a gallon of gas for your own use, you have used the roads. How else did you get your tangerine, your bicycle, your meds or your tennis shoes? They were all delivered by trucks driving on the roads.

 

[mskafka]

[/B]

That is what we were founded to be. A beacon of the democratic process for other nations to aspire to.

Yet today the conservative movement has made voter fraud an issue and wants to restrict the ability to vote in many states.
Stating this is not a strategy to gain power is utter bullshit; there is no evidence to suggest other means cannot be established to prevent fraud. The New Right hopes to disenfranchise citizens who might not vote their way.

I would like to think nation building is both progressive and conservative. If we trample the Constitution, then are we too progressive?? Ensuring everyone that is eligible to have ONE vote uses that privilege may be a little too conservative for some.

Why would anyone suggest we allow non-citizens and dead people to vote?? This should not be a partisan issue, oh darn, there's that conservative thing getting in the way again. That durn piece of paper that states that's the way it is.

Shot who?

 

[LibertyForAll]

We have a grid that is an antique, and wastes huge amounts of energy, energy that we need. It no longer goes to where the energy is at, and is extremely vulneble to natural disasters. Our system of pipelines, oil and gas, has a high percentage of pipes that are currently being ran at one half capacity or less because of age and weakness, and explosians and fatalities because of that seem to be an almost monthly occurance.

We need to be doing some major nation building right here at home.

Are you suggesting that the government replace these pipes and energy grids? How is government subsidation of private industries not socialism? Shouldn't the government just get out of the way and let companies invest in their own infrastructure? The costs will still be passed onto consumers in the end but at least it will be fair because only the people who use their services will be charged for it with the charge being based on their rate of use. The way you state it, If I don't drive then I will still have to pay for oil pipelines.

The same with the roads and bridges with my opinion. If you want to use tax dollars to fix roads and bridges that's fine but make it so that its a tax on those that use the roads by having it come from a gasoline tax. This way those that drive pay for the ability to drive while those that don't won't have to pay.

That might sound good, but once the problems crop up (as they inevitably do), the financial concerns about a pipeline spill out into the community at large. If the investments in infrastructure were maintained and if that infrastructure was under a strict O&M plan, there are only rare instances of failure. But once that company ignores or re-prioritizes or eliminates the budget to maintain pipelines, those bits of private infrastructure become public hazards.

And if you eat a tangerine, ride a bicycle everywhere, use prescription medicine or lace up your tennis shoes, you are using the roads. Without ever buying so much as a gallon of gas for your own use, you have used the roads. How else did you get your tangerine, your bicycle, your meds or your tennis shoes? They were all delivered by trucks driving on the roads.

The trucking companies work the price of gasoline into their price for delivering the goods. The price for delivering the goods is worked into the price of the goods themselves when they are sold at the grocery store.

Standards can be set for maintenance of the companies assets that have the potential to do harm to the public through criminal legislation. If a company allows its assets to deteriorate to the point where it becomes a risk to the general public then they should be fined. The fines should be steep enough to encourage proper maintenance.

 

[naturegirl]

why do you ignore the biggest and headed by a republican government study we have?

Because you dont care about the truth.

You only care about your party

Why don't you care about the truth?? Are you OK with dead people voting, even ONE dead person. You aren't being very progressive here TDM. What about illegal immigrants voting?? Why are you OK with that???

In 2005, the U.S. Government Accountability Office found that up to 3 percent of the 30,000 individuals called for jury duty from voter registration rolls over a two-year period in just one U.S. district court were not U.S. citizens. While that may not seem like many, just 3 percent of registered voters would have been more than enough to provide the winning presiden*tial vote margin in Florida in 2000. Indeed, the Cen*sus Bureau estimates that there are over a million illegal aliens in Florida, and the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) has prosecuted more non-citizen voting cases in Florida than in any other state.

The Cutting Edge News

Democrats criticize Bush's FEC nominee - USATODAY.com



The author of that clap trap is a partisan hack

So you are denying any dead people or illegal immigrants have cast votes on election day?? Even ONE dead or illegal vote is a problem for me, do you agree??? Aren't they breaking the law if even ONE of those votes are cast?? I guess you don't care, do you???

It’s still illegal for non U.S. citizens to vote in federal or statewide elections, though a handful of jurisdictions around the country have passed measures to allow it in local contests. They include municipalities in Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts and New York. Under the 1996 Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act, federal authorities can deport an alien who falsely claims to be a citizen in order to vote.

Voting Rights For Illegal Immigrants | Judicial Watch

This was last week, or doesn't it matter to you??

“We just recently learned that there are over 900 individuals died before the election and at least 600 of those individuals died outside window when absentee ballot could be sent. So we know for a fact that there are deceased people whoose identities are being use in South Carolina.”

South Carolina Attorney General: 900 Dead People Voted in Recent Elections (Video) | The Gateway Pundit

 

[Truthmatters]

why do you refuse the five year Bush study?

 

[naturegirl]

TM, I have given you link after link that proves voter fraud and yet you still stand by your statement that you believe voter ID is only to prevent good people from voting. I give up............you win...........we're all hacks............determined to take away the voting rights of people that don't agree with us. The H*ll with the fact that it's illegal and happening every election, everywhere.

I'll leave to to dwell in your own mistruths and sad little world.

 

[AquaAthena]

Seems pretty progressive to me.

To the progressive in office, nation building equates to a national dependency on government.


"If the Republican primaries are any indication, one big debate in the upcoming election will be whether President Obama is pushing the country toward a European-style welfare culture.

"Mitt Romney, for example, argues that "over the past three years, Barack Obama has been replacing our merit-based society with an entitlement society."

Read how, here:

Is Obama Creating A Nation Of Dependents? Nearly Half Now Get Government Benefits - Investors.com

 

[Paulie]

We have a grid that is an antique, and wastes huge amounts of energy, energy that we need. It no longer goes to where the energy is at, and is extremely vulneble to natural disasters. Our system of pipelines, oil and gas, has a high percentage of pipes that are currently being ran at one half capacity or less because of age and weakness, and explosians and fatalities because of that seem to be an almost monthly occurance.

We need to be doing some major nation building right here at home.

Are you suggesting that the government replace these pipes and energy grids? How is government subsidation of private industries not socialism? Shouldn't the government just get out of the way and let companies invest in their own infrastructure? The costs will still be passed onto consumers in the end but at least it will be fair because only the people who use their services will be charged for it with the charge being based on their rate of use. The way you state it, If I don't drive then I will still have to pay for oil pipelines.

The same with the roads and bridges with my opinion. If you want to use tax dollars to fix roads and bridges that's fine but make it so that its a tax on those that use the roads by having it come from a gasoline tax. This way those that drive pay for the ability to drive while those that don't won't have to pay.

The argument for that, and you know I'm a free market libertarian, is what happens when at some point you travel through that area and use that road or bridge? How do you apportion the taxes accordingly so that those who use it most pay the most, while those that use it only when convenient still pitch in?