Is modern marriage obsolete?

[DamnYankee]

I, for one, heard no such fairy tale, nor did I tell it. Perhaps parents ought to teach reality rather than teach "how to get a man/woman".

Did you ever read/watch Cinderella, Snow White, Sleeping Beauty or any of a million other stories/movies? Every romance novel written has the same formula as well. The woman needs the man to rescue her ... and he is unbelievable hot, good in bed, or - in a fortunate happenstance - both.

I'm not saying that Disney is evil, btw. And I've contemplated over the years the balance between letting children have a childhood full of imagination and wonder and at the same time teaching them to be realistic about live and love.

Yeah, and my boys watched/played HeMan and Spidey, but they didn't go crawlin' up walls or killin' their foes. You get the picture? The girl and the boys had fantasy and reality explained to them.

 

[AVG-JOE]

OMG..... You actually think that women have cornered the market on thinking that sex is love?

OMG! No.

Good, cuz that was the message that came across!

Seriously?

I did not see it that way. I didn't see 'sex' in the statement at all, although in a second look, I see that it could be one of the many factors of 'relationship' where reality doesn't meet expectations, causing disappointment.

-Joe

 

[Phoenix]

Yeah, and my boys watched/played HeMan and Spidey, but they didn't go crawlin' up walls or killin' their foes. You get the picture? The girl and the boys had fantasy and reality explained to them.

Well sure. You can explain that the scary part of the movie they just saw is only actors in makeup too. But that doesn't always keep them from having nightmares.

I'm not saying that people sit down and tell their daughters "ok, you're going to have this guy come and sweep you off your feet and take care of you forever", but you have to admit that when you are a child, inundated by the same types of stories over and over, it does get into your subconscious.

Or let's approach it this way - why do YOU think that girls/women insist on looking for their "Prince Charming" and have such unrealistic expectations of men, marriage and life?

My opinion is that if every girl had several older brothers like I did, their expectations would surely change and be more realistic. Darn older brothers!

 

[DamnYankee]

OMG! No.

Good, cuz that was the message that came across!

Seriously?

I did not see it that way. I didn't see 'sex' in the statement at all, although in a second look, I see that it could be one of the many factors of 'relationship' where reality doesn't meet expectations, causing disappointment.

-Joe

The comment had nothing to do with not meeting "expectations". It was a correlation between men and women, and my perception that the original words conveyed a picture that "love" = sexual satisfaction for women, but not for men. Women may say "I love you" more quickly and easily than men, but, for the most part, fulfill their fantasies for them, and they are "in love" faster than they can cum.

 

[AVG-JOE]

If there is any source of disinformation that is screwing women up, it has GOT TO BE woman's magazines.

Between their affection for emotional pornography, and their articles designed to confuse women into thinking that the problem can be solved by changing wardrobes (beause all men are, after all hopeless sex slaves) there is no worse source of information for women in the world (except maybe most religions)

The articles are also designed to confuse women into thinking they have no value if they aren't perfect. I HATE women's magazines and have told my daughter over they are nothing but lies designed to make people feel like shit so they'll spend money. No doubt men's magazines are the same.

Most men's magazines that have anything remotely to do with sex (it's been a while, but I doubt they've changed much) are designed to make men spend money having fun.

I don't think most men typically feel like shit about themselves...not at least when it comes to sex or relationships.

Seriously, men just naturally tend to assume that they're never understand women.

That is, I suspect, the one tenuous grasp of reality that men share the world over.

That, IMHO, is because making the prospect feel like shit about themselves is not nearly as successful a marketing technique on men as it is on women. Men are more motivated by carnal desire and envy.

-Joe

 

[DamnYankee]

Yeah, and my boys watched/played HeMan and Spidey, but they didn't go crawlin' up walls or killin' their foes. You get the picture? The girl and the boys had fantasy and reality explained to them.

Well sure. You can explain that the scary part of the movie they just saw is only actors in makeup too. But that doesn't always keep them from having nightmares.

I'm not saying that people sit down and tell their daughters "ok, you're going to have this guy come and sweep you off your feet and take care of you forever", but you have to admit that when you are a child, inundated by the same types of stories over and over, it does get into your subconscious.

Or let's approach it this way - why do YOU think that girls/women insist on looking for their "Prince Charming" and have such unrealistic expectations of men, marriage and life?

My opinion is that if every girl had several older brothers like I did, their expectations would surely change and be more realistic. Darn older brothers!

I have no idea, since I'm told, by reliable sources, that I'm not like most women. Too logical. Too honest. Too self-sufficient (not needy). Oh, and I had no siblings, so I cannot make brothers the scapegoats.

 

[editec]

Good relationships don't take any work at all. I've had scores of those.

Bad relationships are the ones that take work to keep going. Ironically, they ALL started out as easily maintained good relationships

Women seem to think that men aren't in touch with their feelings and that may be true, I really can't know since I'm a heterosexual male.

But I think most women are far too often in touch with feelings that aren't really real.

They're not in love, they're in love with the idea of being in love.

They're been fed such a load of blather about enduringly forever love that they're confused that they aren't happily ever after.

The things that seem to confuse all of us is the difference (if there really are differences) between love and lust and affection.

Incidently, I don't think I have any answers because I am highly dubious there ARE any answers.

There is only what we have now, at the moment.

So cherish what you have while you have it. Its a gift you have TODAY.

Tomorrow is promised to nobody, folks.

Well, consider the fact that from infancy girls are spoon-fed stories of happily-ever-after and a handsome prince who will sweep them off their feet and make their lives a fairy tale.

That's exactly what I was considering, actually.

All the romance novels are of tall, dark/ blond, buff, handsome, daring, exciting men who will provide intrigue while at the same time satisfying every lustful need and then some - and then they live happily ever after, of course.

Yup.

Is it any wonder that women often have unrealistic ideas about who or what men are, how they think and function, how their men should treat them?

Yes, it is, despite all the propaganda we're exposed to, you'd think that people would get it after a while.

Half of all marriages and an even greater number of all love affairs end in bitter acrimony and separation.

We don't get it because we choose not to get it.

Next to our own death, considering the end of our love is probably the thing we least want to think about honestly

Taking an honest approach to love and marriage is considered cynical or defeatist.

And FWIW, I know damned well that this is easy for me to say, now, but if I was in that swept away state of an early relationship, I wouldn't believe it, either.

The reality is that there isn't a knight on a white horse to sweep his lady love away to his castle or a hot Navy SEAL who is going to rescue the unlikely heroine from a sinking ship. Reality doesn't work that way. It is full of imperfections and people rarely live happily ever after.

Yup.

People change. Lust and love fades. We get old, we get tired. The day-to-day reality of getting along and making it works saps that wonder drug that is early love out of most of us fairly soon after the first year of two of perfect bliss.

Who reading this has this NOT happened to, anyway?

If it hasn't happened to you, either you're the luckiest person I know (i.e. you're still in romatic love after a long time) or the unluckiest person because you've never been in love.

Face it. Love is a form of temporary insanity that mother nature grants us in order to make it possible for the next generation to even happen.

It couldn't possibly last as that heady event that it starts out as.

If it did none of us would have the time or inclination to drag ourselves through the mundane routines that it takes to make life possible.

This is NOT our fault and we need to stop blaming outselves OR our significant others for it because it is the human condition.

 

[caela]

But regardless, it is the important observance of the family unit without which the family unit itself falls into dysfunction and children are raised without the necessary perspective to raise their own children. Both daughters and sons need fathers, just as they both need mothers. Without the training, even though it may be subconscious, or the examples they learn from, they come to relationships incomplete. I think that is what we already see today, and it is a self fulfilling prophecy by those who have failed in their own marriages, to say that the institution of marriage is obsolete.

I will agree that children need both male and female influences in their lives but I don't know that I necessarily agree that those influences NEED to be from a mother and father. I'm a single mother (so perhaps I don't want to think my daughter needs a "daddy") who got pregnant unexpectedly. The man involved was fine as a sexual partner but had no interest whatsoever in being a father and, if I'd tried to force him to be one, would never have been more than a monthly check. He made it very clear he would never be a presence in her life and that was his choice.

Personally I don't regret his choice. I don't have to share my daughter with him and worry that he might somehow screw her up (something he mentioned he would be inclined to try "Just to see if he could" if he had a child in his care) or if she'll get hurt with him simply because he isn't watching her. I personally think not having that influence in her life is better than having a neglectful or outright harmful, influence in her life.

That isn't to say that there are no men in her life. We spend a lot of time with my folks and her Papa loves her to pieces and she adores him. When we get to their house her eyes light up and she starts babbling "Papapapapapapapa" almost immediately (she's only 9 months and this was actually her first word) and will go to him as soon as she sees him. She also has uncles that think the sun rises and sets on her. She won't lack for men in her life even though she doesn't necessarily have a "dad".

* * *

As for the original topic of the thread, I don't think that marriage is obsolete but neither do I think it is necessarily sacred. I think it can be a wonderful institution and that there are legal ramifications to it that can't really be handled any other way than through the civil contract involved. I do think that the idea of an absolutely monogamous relationship, however, might be obsolete for many people. The most successful marriages that I know of are actually of people that are in poly/open relationships. The couples set up
their own particular relationship rules and re-evaluate them from time to time. This forces them to discuss things that a lot of the monogamous couples I know ignore, disregard, or sweep under the carpet. It also changes the definition of "cheating" making it more specific to each couple.

It wouldn't work for everyone but with many stats putting cheating at roughly 70% of men and nearly 50% of women, I think it would work for a lot more people than have considered it.

 

[Al Gunn]

Marriage these days is for the mentally challenged who are insecure and think that without marriage their spouse will leave them. As well as for those whose are brainwashed by religion and think that it's absolutely necessary for them to go to heaven.

 

[editec]

Marriage, as defined by our state laws, is a civil contract.

That contract is mostly about PROPERTY rights.

Some of us thanks to our belief systems believe it is a sacred union.

The law really doesn't recognize it as such, nor, given the fact that we are a secular society, should it.

That's one the reasons I grow weary of the folks who bitch and whine about either defending marriage (as though it needs it?) or bitch and whine about the fact that they MUST have the right to a civil contract called marriage.

That whole idiotic issue is a debate about semantics that two groups who are both somewhat radical are having.

With all the truly important issues facing us, I consider the whole issue a waste of everyone's time.

The solution, one many of us have proposed is to legally call all marriages CIVIL UNIONS and be done with it.

If somebody wants to refer to their civil union partner as their husband or wife, and if they want to call that contract a marriage, fine by me.

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

 

[Big Black Dog]

I think it's a commitment thing. People don't much honor their word anymore these days - not just in marriage but in lots of things. If you get too deep in debt and you don't feel like doing the honorable thing like changing your lifestyle and working your way out of the debt just toss in the towel and go bankrupt. If you join the military and all of a sudden feel you made the mistake of your life, just do something stupid that will get you thrown out of the military. No need to feel a need to honor your word and the oath you took to join the military. If you get married and after a spell feel it is no longer exciting and new, has become boring, or any number of things cause you to feel that you no longer want to be married, forget about those vows you took in front of friends and before God. Just divorce and walk away from your commitment. A person's word is almost worthless in this day and age. It use to be a handshake, and a man's (or woman's) word was closely guarded and had some honor associated with it. Now, it is almost meaningless. Marriage is still in style and an important part of life for a lot of people. It is a public vow of commitment. But, like so many other things these days, it is important only to those that want it to be important.

 

[editec]

I think it's a commitment thing. People don't much honor their word anymore these days - not just in marriage but in lots of things. If you get too deep in debt and you don't feel like doing the honorable thing like changing your lifestyle and working your way out of the debt just toss in the towel and go bankrupt. If you join the military and all of a sudden feel you made the mistake of your life, just do something stupid that will get you thrown out of the military. No need to feel a need to honor your word and the oath you took to join the military. If you get married and after a spell feel it is no longer exciting and new, has become boring, or any number of things cause you to feel that you no longer want to be married, forget about those vows you took in front of friends and before God. Just divorce and walk away from your commitment. A person's word is almost worthless in this day and age. It use to be a handshake, and a man's (or woman's) word was closely guarded and had some honor associated with it. Now, it is almost meaningless. Marriage is still in style and an important part of life for a lot of people. It is a public vow of commitment. But, like so many other things these days, it is important only to those that want it to be important.

I doubt that the rate of divorce has changed much in the last thirty or fourty years.

When the civil union no longer makes sense why not end it?

 

[chanel]

I may take shit for this one, but I believe that marriage is a necessary FINANCIAL arrangement, in addition to being the better alternative for raising children. Fathers do not bond as closely with children they do not live with. There are millions of examples of that.

And of course it's far more expensive to have two households instead of one.

Also, even if couples just lived together to raise the children and consolidate bills, it would be too easy to leave. Personally I would have done it a half a dozen times. And I'm glad I didn't.

No one wants to die alone.

 

[badeth]

With nearly half of all marriages in the U.S. ending in divorce, why do we still insist on tying the knot? As she ends her 20-year marriage, The Atlantic contributor Sandra Tsing Loh posits that the idea of lifelong wedded bliss has become obsolete.

The reason that could answer that problem is the pervasiveness of “no blame” divorce and “irreconcilable differences.” Irreconcilable difference is often used by couples as ground for divorce to file quick divorce. Some prefer not to state the real reason of divorce so not to delay obtaining divorce. This is a common line to celebrity divorce where celebrities claim that they just don’t go along with each other’s career or etc and think that divorce is a best way to end the gap. Lenient divorce decrees allow people to skate out of marriage.

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

I think what is getting lost in the marriage equation, is respect for the commitment itself. If a man doesn't honor, respect, and love himself first as the individual he is, with all the frailties thereto, it is impossible for him to love another in a manner that is befitting a loving, healthy, mature relationship.

In my opinion, a relationship does not make us who we are. It should enhance who we already are as individuals. If the person you are with does not enhance all that you are as a person, you are with the wrong person, in my opinion. Often times, people seek out a relationship so that they can rescue themselves from whatever malady is or has occurred in their life. And when that happens, it is only a matter of time, until the quicksand of denial starts dragging the person down, as well as anyone else that grabs hold out of fear of being alone.

While marriage is symbolic of commitment and love, it is so much more than commitment and love. A lot of people rush into marriage or a relationship, without truly thinking about what they are doing and why. The person that they claim to like or love ends up becoming a convenient roommate.

Some may think that being with someone because they are your best friend, your confidant, and your lover all in one is archaic in todays world. I disagree. Love is not something you blindly fall into. And in my opinion, marriage should be no different.

A tree does not mature overnight. It takes time. So is the case with love. The seed of love can be planted in the twinkling of an eye, but it can take a lifetime for it to fully mature.

Some have put forth the notion that a lot of people today don't know what love is, much less know when they have found it. I do not believe their is any single definition that can fully describe all that love is and can be in each of our lives. At the same time, I believe that the following words express the fullness and transformation that love makes in each of our lives, when we willingly embrace it.

Love is reaching deep inside someone's heart, and kissing them so deep inside their soul, that they are never the same.