Is Mexico slowing descending in chaos/lawlessness

[Dr Grump]

I don't know whether it has always been, or whether these drug cartels are just making more headlines than usual, but it seems to me that the Federal and state govts of Mexico are fucked.

Don't get me wrong, I am not that naive to realise that the police and politicians in Mexico have not always been corrupt, but it seems to have become totally out of control over the past 4-5 years.

Gunmen kill mother protesting over slain daughter

As a personal anecdote of sorts, my cousin played rugby in San Diego about 15-20 years ago and he popped over the border to Tijuana. He got pulled over by a Federale who tried the shakedown on him. Being from a country where corruption is negligible to say the least - and being a hot head to boot - he refused to cooperate. The federale started getting a bit pissed, but what the cop didn't realise that my cousin had four US marines in the car with him (well, he knew he had passengers, but didn't know what they did for a living). So a couple of them get out, tell them what they do, and the guy backed off big time. He ended up apologising, and they got talking to him, and it turned out he had to pay for his own uniform and gun and ammo. And his pay was negligible. Is this a case where strong central govt is important? That tax laws are enforced so govt workers can earn a decent salary and not have to rely on the blight of corruption to make ends meet? Because once corruption does take hold you end up with tinpot dictatorships that dot the globe like those in Africa, parts of Asia and South America?

 

[Modbert]

Toll for Mexico drug war tops 30,000 dead - INQUIRER.net, Philippine News for Filipinos

MEXICO CITY—The number of deaths in Mexico's vicious four-year drug gang war has soared over 30,000, authorities said Thursday, with 12,456 fatalities this year alone.

 

[Dr Grump]

And is that normal for Mexico over the past 40-50 years? Or an aberration...

 

[Samson]

I am not that naive to realise that the police and politicians in Mexico have not always been corrupt, but it seems to have become totally out of control over the past 4-5 years.

his pay was negligible. Is this a case where strong central govt is important?


That tax laws are enforced so govt workers can earn a decent salary and not have to rely on the blight of corruption to make ends meet?

Because once corruption does take hold you end up with tinpot dictatorships that dot the globe like those in Africa, parts of Asia and South America?

One of these days, you'll astonish the fuck out of me with a comprehensive OP.

First you admit, however awkwardly, that you know Mexico is and has been corrupt.

Then you wonder if low pay for federal cops makes for a strong central government.

Then you launch into a question of enforcing tax laws (the job of the federal cops).

Then you question (or comment, or state?) that corruption begets tinpot dictatorships.

Can anyone interpret your blithering?

 

[Dr Grump]

I am not that naive to realise that the police and politicians in Mexico have not always been corrupt, but it seems to have become totally out of control over the past 4-5 years.

his pay was negligible. Is this a case where strong central govt is important?


That tax laws are enforced so govt workers can earn a decent salary and not have to rely on the blight of corruption to make ends meet?

Because once corruption does take hold you end up with tinpot dictatorships that dot the globe like those in Africa, parts of Asia and South America?

One of these days, you'll astonish the fuck out of me with a comprehensive OP.

First you admit, however awkwardly, that you know Mexico is and has been corrupt.

Then you wonder if low pay for federal cops makes for a strong central government.

Then you launch into a question of enforcing tax laws (the job of the federal cops).

Then you question (or comment, or state?) that corruption begets tinpot dictatorships.

Can anyone interpret your blithering?

The fact you can't join the dots does not surprise me. This thread is for intelligent people, so you might best move along. However, I am more than happy to explain my logic to you if you so desire. I didn't think I would have to spell it out literally - but there you go...

If I ever decide to start an OP for your benefit, I'll be sure to insert the words "kiddie porn" somewhere. I know that is bound to get your attention and make you salivate....

 

[Toro]

Mexico has always been corrupt. The Presidents have stolen hundreds of billions over the decades, so its no surprise that those down the food chain are corrupt as well. And with the drug trade generating tens of billions of dollars in sales in the US each year, it is no surprise that drug corruption is rotting the state from within. Wide swaths of Mexico are outside the control of government.

 

[Dr Grump]

Mexico has always been corrupt. The Presidents have stolen hundreds of billions over the decades, so its no surprise that those down the food chain are corrupt as well. And with the drug trade generating tens of billions of dollars in sales in the US each year, it is no surprise that drug corruption is rotting the state from within. Wide swaths of Mexico are outside the control of government.

I know, but I guess I'm wondering if it has worsened over the past 4-5 years, or are they just garnering more headlines. ie it has always been like this, but for some reason the media are playing up to it more....?

 

[WillowTree]

i don't know whether it has always been, or whether these drug cartels are just making more headlines than usual, but it seems to me that the federal and state govts of mexico are fucked.

Don't get me wrong, i am not that naive to realise that the police and politicians in mexico have not always been corrupt, but it seems to have become totally out of control over the past 4-5 years.

gunmen kill mother protesting over slain daughter

as a personal anecdote of sorts, my cousin played rugby in san diego about 15-20 years ago and he popped over the border to tijuana. He got pulled over by a federale who tried the shakedown on him. Being from a country where corruption is negligible to say the least - and being a hot head to boot - he refused to cooperate. The federale started getting a bit pissed, but what the cop didn't realise that my cousin had four us marines in the car with him (well, he knew he had passengers, but didn't know what they did for a living). So a couple of them get out, tell them what they do, and the guy backed off big time. He ended up apologising, and they got talking to him, and it turned out he had to pay for his own uniform and gun and ammo. And his pay was negligible. Is this a case where strong central govt is important? That tax laws are enforced so govt workers can earn a decent salary and not have to rely on the blight of corruption to make ends meet? Because once corruption does take hold you end up with tinpot dictatorships that dot the globe like those in africa, parts of asia and south america?

duh!

 

[WillowTree]

And is that normal for Mexico over the past 40-50 years? Or an aboration...

aberration.

 

[William Joyce]

Where white people aren't, chaos and corruption is.

Racist, yes.

Factual, yes.

 

[elvis]

is mexico a rogue state?

 

[WillowTree]

is mexico a rogue state?

Not by choice I don't think. I'm wondering if the US has a good fix on the strength of the drug cartels?

 

[Dr Grump]

is mexico a rogue state?

Central and South America have always been basket cases - but to varying degrees. ie Nicaragua, El Salvador, Columbia, Guatemala, Paraguay and Brazil - IMO - have always had this understated corruption, and in some cases Tinpot dictators. Over the past 20 years it seems the like of Chile and Argentina have gotten themselves out of the 'mire and are almost getting to become first-world countries.

I have always viewed Mexico in a similar vein, but somehow have always thought that it wasn't 'that bad' as far as crime and corruption go in a third world country. Don't get me wrong - despite Samson's inability to get the OP - I am not naive to the fact that there is a lot of corruption there. However, it seems like Mexico is going downhill very fast.

In Italy - especially in the southern parts - there is wide spread corruption and there are huge tracts of the country run by the mafia. However, instead of rolling over, the Italian govt has the Carabineiri to call upon. Although now part of the military, they were sort of in between a policeman and a soldier. But what the Italian govt did was hire these guys and put them in regions where they have no family or friends, which the govt hopes will limit them being open to corruption. It seems to work to a degree. The mafia hate them, and they tend to get better results than the local constabulary. Seems like Mexico could do with a dose of the same..

 

[José]

Grump,

Violence is always bad for business unless you are an undertaker. That's why drug cartels spend an awful lot of money to buy off the executive and judiciary branches of Colombia and Mexico. The last thing they want is disrupt the flow of narcotics to their consumer markets.

The reason you didn't hear much about drug related violence in Mexico 10 years ago and hear now is because Calderon declared war on the mexican drug mafia.

If Mexico looks the other way and does nothing to confront the cartels the country is a narco-state tha's in the pockets of drug barons.

If it does confront them it has descended in chaos and lawlessness.

Mexico just can't win.

 

[Dr Grump]

Mexico just can't win.

Unless they have a police force controlled by a strong central govt, which I alluded to, but obviously needs to spelled out to some (not you, talking about Delilah)...

 

[boedicca]

I am not that naive to realise that the police and politicians in Mexico have not always been corrupt, but it seems to have become totally out of control over the past 4-5 years.

his pay was negligible. Is this a case where strong central govt is important?


That tax laws are enforced so govt workers can earn a decent salary and not have to rely on the blight of corruption to make ends meet?

Because once corruption does take hold you end up with tinpot dictatorships that dot the globe like those in Africa, parts of Asia and South America?

One of these days, you'll astonish the fuck out of me with a comprehensive OP.

First you admit, however awkwardly, that you know Mexico is and has been corrupt.

Then you wonder if low pay for federal cops makes for a strong central government.

Then you launch into a question of enforcing tax laws (the job of the federal cops).

Then you question (or comment, or state?) that corruption begets tinpot dictatorships.

Can anyone interpret your blithering?

I can. In a few posts, he'll blame Boooooossshhhhh and the GOP.

 

[Toro]

Mexico has always been corrupt. The Presidents have stolen hundreds of billions over the decades, so its no surprise that those down the food chain are corrupt as well. And with the drug trade generating tens of billions of dollars in sales in the US each year, it is no surprise that drug corruption is rotting the state from within. Wide swaths of Mexico are outside the control of government.

I know, but I guess I'm wondering if it has worsened over the past 4-5 years, or are they just garnering more headlines. ie it has always been like this, but for some reason the media are playing up to it more....?

It's worsened because the federal government in Mexico has cracked down on drug traffickers.

Also, Colombia was successful in its war on the drug traffickers, and the US government increased its surveillance of the Gulf making it much more difficult for traffickers to get their product into America through Florida and the Gulf states, so they've switched to Mexico.

 

[Dr Grump]

It's worsened because the federal government in Mexico has cracked down on drug traffickers.

Also, Colombia was successful in its war on the drug traffickers, and the US government increased its surveillance of the Gulf making it much more difficult for traffickers to get their product into America through Florida and the Gulf states, so they've switched to Mexico.

Dunno if I would go on vacation to Columbia anytime soon, though....Would still be a pretty dangerous place to be IMO.

So now that border probably needs more protected than ever. Maybe the US should close its bases in Germany and station a few of them along the border with Mexico...

 

[Samson]

I can. In a few posts, he'll blame Boooooossshhhhh and the GOP.

So now that border probably needs more protected than ever. Maybe the US should close its bases in Germany and station a few of them along the border with Mexico...

We need to be more patient with the poor old drooling idiot.

In the second page of the thread, Grump has finally hit upon a rational thought without his customary rambling babble.

There are already a few US military bases along the border with Mexico.

 

[Dr Grump]

We need to be more patient with the poor old drooling idiot.

In the second page of the thread, Grump has finally hit upon a rational thought without his customary rambling babble.

There are already a few US military bases along the border with Mexico.

Hey, the epitome of patience is that I even entertain your answers.

How many bases are there along the border.

Oh, and I am on my first page. See, I figured out that you can see 40 posts per page if you change the settings. I see you are still at the default settings, so doing something as remedial as changing the number of posts you can see per page is beyond your feeble mind. No surprises there....