Is Major Jihadi a poster boy for profiling?

[The_Halfmoon]

I wouldn't mind being profiled. I have nothing to hide, and it would make ME feel safer knowing that the other soldiers are aware that I've been thoroughly checked and cleared.

when you're fighting against an Arab country, you will inevitably have to deal with the fact that you have Arabic/Persian/Turkish forces who will feel connected more to the enemy's homeland than your own. It's not a silly question to ask a soldier, even if it is a bit offensive to middle easterners, whether muslim or not. As long as harassment is checked immediately, then it's ok.

 

[SFC Ollie]

They did with my daughter for her security clearance (went as far back as interviewing her teachers from Jr High).

Wouldn't an officer have to undergo a security clearance as well?

I don't think so but maybe someone with military experience can answer that.

I would hope that an officer would have at least some level of clearance, especially one with his job.

GTH could answer this for us

Fact is that his job probably did not require a security clearance. He is a Doctor, what secrets does he have to know? On the other hand I do not remember ever meeting an officer who did not carry at least a Secret Clearance based upon a BI (Background Investigation) which is little more than a police records check.

 

[Care4all]

Is Major Jihadi a poster boy for profiling?

...

Poor guy was just misunderstood. Clearly, this is Bush's fault.

On a related note, how many lap dances does it take to become a devout Muslim?

I dunno, how many naked tapes or sex tapes of oneself have to be released for one to be a devout Christian, such as Carrie Prejean?

We all fall short of the glory of God, as the good book says, and there are no exceptions...of one religious group or another, if memory serves me....

I ain't excusing this guy, but how many Single Christian men or women for that matter, that you know... are virgins....until they get married, and that is what the Christian Bible asks of them, life without any kind of sex, whether it be a one night stand, with a friend, a partner, or someone sitting on your lap to get you off.... until marriage.

I'm just saying that I think ridiculing him for THAT aspect of this horrific deal is kinda off base...ya know?

Well, at least i think so!

 

[Ravi]

Perhaps the behavior of a Muslim shouldn't be ignored because he's a muslim

No, it shouldn't be. I've said all along that anyone that is a fundamentalist deserves extra scrutiny.

Like I said, I don't much about this story at all. He had a known history of islamic fundamentalist behavior?

As Emma stated earlier, this is basically what we know.

What could have been profiled? So far, the only thing that's come out is that he spoke out against the war and had hired an attorney to get him discharged. There's that one who attended school with him in Bethesda making this claim, but I've not seen anyone else step forward to corroborate his story (not likely to get that from superiors he supposedly complained to however) There was talk of him being counseled there too, but officials are saying that's not unusual, that most residents are counseled (I can believe that). The emails? The FBI determined that they were regarding his research at Walter Reed.

It's come out now that he attended the mosque headed by the radical Iman. Would the Army have known that at the time?

 

[Paulie]

I don't think so but maybe someone with military experience can answer that.

I would hope that an officer would have at least some level of clearance, especially one with his job.

GTH could answer this for us

Fact is that his job probably did not require a security clearance. He is a Doctor, what secrets does he have to know? On the other hand I do not remember ever meeting an officer who did not carry at least a Secret Clearance based upon a BI (Background Investigation) which is little more than a police records check.

It is an absolute fact that he would have at least a Secret clearance. Even the NURSE officers are required to obtain a clearance.

A clearance and "knowing secrets" aren't mutually inclusive.

I had a top secret clearance because I worked on nuclear missiles in the AF. I never knew a single secret. My particular team had the distinction of carrying what's called a "permutation plug" which is just some device that contains coding and is 1/2 of what is required to launch an ICBM.

Another team carried the other half, and both halves would never be together at the same time at any point, unless a launch was required.

 

[SFC Ollie]

A lot of jobs, like mine, required daily scrutinization of you. There's something called the Personnel Reliability Program where your ability to perform your duty on any given day can change based on all kinds of factors, like if you're taking certain meds...or even if your unit commander or co-workers notice something different about you.

I don't know if this doctor had that kind of scrutinization, but your behavior is something that is ALWAYS going to be closely monitored if you hold a clearance.

I'm really hard pressed to think this guy could have gotten away with joining a terror organization without anyone knowing.

But then again, some people at Minot AFB sent a bunch of live nukes on an airplane a couple years ago that were supposed to be dummy warheads. They don't even keep the lives and the dummies in the same place together. So someone fucked that one up BAD. And with nukes, you're DEFINITELY looking at Personnel Reliability Program. That was my field.

I was going to ask what you did. I was with TCLSC-E COMSEC. We loved PRP. Go to the dentist and get 24 hours off duty. Just for a Novocaine shot. Everyone in our shop (about 10 of us) held a Top Secret, CRYPTO, NATO, COSMIC, ATOMAL. And few other acronyms I forget.

 

[xotoxi]

Whatever the FBI found on him in their investigation wasn't enough to prevent him (with their background check) from buying the guns he used in the attack.

Are you a friggin' librul or something? You actually want to infringe on his Second Amendment rights??? BITCH!

Just imagine being in the military wondering if the muslims are simply waiting to shoot you in the back....

DAMN RIGHT, KIMOSABE!!!

Fuckin' muslims!!!

 

[Paulie]

No, it shouldn't be. I've said all along that anyone that is a fundamentalist deserves extra scrutiny.

Like I said, I don't much about this story at all. He had a known history of islamic fundamentalist behavior?

As Emma stated earlier, this is basically what we know.

What could have been profiled? So far, the only thing that's come out is that he spoke out against the war and had hired an attorney to get him discharged. There's that one who attended school with him in Bethesda making this claim, but I've not seen anyone else step forward to corroborate his story (not likely to get that from superiors he supposedly complained to however) There was talk of him being counseled there too, but officials are saying that's not unusual, that most residents are counseled (I can believe that). The emails? The FBI determined that they were regarding his research at Walter Reed.

It's come out now that he attended the mosque headed by the radical Iman. Would the Army have known that at the time?

Well you have to look at it this way..

If he was a person who was privy to secret information that was vital to national security, it's possible he'd be monitored and followed probably daily. I imagine that being a CIA agent that knows the REALLY secret stuff means you have almost no privacy.

But this guy was just a Doc. Even if he's scrutinized, he wouldn't be followed around and monitored on a daily basis. He'd be able to attend certain churches in privacy.

The question is, did he start attending this church AFTER his security clearance investigation, or before? Being a major, he's been in the military for at LEAST 6-8 years, if not more.

It takes two years just to get to O-2. He's O-4.

 

[Paulie]

A lot of jobs, like mine, required daily scrutinization of you. There's something called the Personnel Reliability Program where your ability to perform your duty on any given day can change based on all kinds of factors, like if you're taking certain meds...or even if your unit commander or co-workers notice something different about you.

I don't know if this doctor had that kind of scrutinization, but your behavior is something that is ALWAYS going to be closely monitored if you hold a clearance.

I'm really hard pressed to think this guy could have gotten away with joining a terror organization without anyone knowing.

But then again, some people at Minot AFB sent a bunch of live nukes on an airplane a couple years ago that were supposed to be dummy warheads. They don't even keep the lives and the dummies in the same place together. So someone fucked that one up BAD. And with nukes, you're DEFINITELY looking at Personnel Reliability Program. That was my field.

I was going to ask what you did. I was with TCLSC-E COMSEC. We loved PRP. Go to the dentist and get 24 hours off duty. Just for a Novocaine shot. Everyone in our shop (about 10 of us) held a Top Secret, CRYPTO, NATO, COSMIC, ATOMAL. And few other acronyms I forget.

I kind of hated PRP. I only worked 3 days a week on my regular duty schedule, so if my PRP happened to take me off regular duty status, I had to be shop boy and work everyday.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Like I said, I don't much about this story at all. He had a known history of islamic fundamentalist behavior?

As Emma stated earlier, this is basically what we know.

What could have been profiled? So far, the only thing that's come out is that he spoke out against the war and had hired an attorney to get him discharged. There's that one who attended school with him in Bethesda making this claim, but I've not seen anyone else step forward to corroborate his story (not likely to get that from superiors he supposedly complained to however) There was talk of him being counseled there too, but officials are saying that's not unusual, that most residents are counseled (I can believe that). The emails? The FBI determined that they were regarding his research at Walter Reed.

It's come out now that he attended the mosque headed by the radical Iman. Would the Army have known that at the time?

Well you have to look at it this way..

If he was a person who was privy to secret information that was vital to national security, it's possible he'd be monitored and followed probably daily. I imagine that being a CIA agent that knows the REALLY secret stuff means you have almost no privacy.

But this guy was just a Doc. Even if he's scrutinized, he wouldn't be followed around and monitored on a daily basis. He'd be able to attend certain churches in privacy.

The question is, did he start attending this church AFTER his security clearance investigation, or before? Being a major, he's been in the military for at LEAST 6-8 years, if not more.

It takes two years just to get to O-2. He's O-4.

He spent the better part of his military time in a civilian school, He was commissioned as a Captain and did his internship at Walter Reed. Ft Hood was actually his first duty assignment.

 

[dilloduck]

So then...it sounds more and more likely he just snapped and used his religion as a way to justify his actions to himself.

Perhaps the military should take a closer look at making the mental health care givers get mental health care themselves on a regular basis.

Perhaps the behavior of a Muslim shouldn't be ignored because he's a muslim

No, it shouldn't be. I've said all along that anyone that is a fundamentalist deserves extra scrutiny.

and he didn't because he was a muslim----isn't that correct ?

 

[Ravi]

Perhaps the behavior of a Muslim shouldn't be ignored because he's a muslim

No, it shouldn't be. I've said all along that anyone that is a fundamentalist deserves extra scrutiny.

and he didn't because he was a muslim----isn't that correct ?

No...the FBI investigated him, according to some reports.

 

[Paulie]

As Emma stated earlier, this is basically what we know.

Well you have to look at it this way..

If he was a person who was privy to secret information that was vital to national security, it's possible he'd be monitored and followed probably daily. I imagine that being a CIA agent that knows the REALLY secret stuff means you have almost no privacy.

But this guy was just a Doc. Even if he's scrutinized, he wouldn't be followed around and monitored on a daily basis. He'd be able to attend certain churches in privacy.

The question is, did he start attending this church AFTER his security clearance investigation, or before? Being a major, he's been in the military for at LEAST 6-8 years, if not more.

It takes two years just to get to O-2. He's O-4.

He spent the better part of his military time in a civilian school, He was commissioned as a Captain and did his internship at Walter Reed. Ft Hood was actually his first duty assignment.

Sounds a bit like what my girlfriend might do for the Navy Nurse Corps. But how did he get commissioned at O-3? I guess he commissioned when he was already a Doctor? Usually you don't come in higher than O-1 unless you have significant degrees behind you.

 

[Paulie]

Before he would ever be assigned to his duty station as a commissioned officer, doing his job as a doctor, he would have already gone through the security clearance and been granted one.

So what needs to be done is check the timelines and see when he was attending the radical church, and when he was commissioned. If he was attending before commissioning, then I would HAVE to doubt that he'd get the clearance.

I don't know the timelines though. Someone else who's been following this and cares more than me should figure that out.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Well you have to look at it this way..

If he was a person who was privy to secret information that was vital to national security, it's possible he'd be monitored and followed probably daily. I imagine that being a CIA agent that knows the REALLY secret stuff means you have almost no privacy.

But this guy was just a Doc. Even if he's scrutinized, he wouldn't be followed around and monitored on a daily basis. He'd be able to attend certain churches in privacy.

The question is, did he start attending this church AFTER his security clearance investigation, or before? Being a major, he's been in the military for at LEAST 6-8 years, if not more.

It takes two years just to get to O-2. He's O-4.

He spent the better part of his military time in a civilian school, He was commissioned as a Captain and did his internship at Walter Reed. Ft Hood was actually his first duty assignment.

Sounds a bit like what my girlfriend might do for the Navy Nurse Corps. But how did he get commissioned at O-3? I guess he commissioned when he was already a Doctor? Usually you don't come in higher than O-1 unless you have significant degrees behind you.

I am not sure how the program works 100%, but as I understand it the Military paid for his college, then he was commissioned and had to serve so many years on active duty to pay for the college. I also believe that a Nurse can be commissioned as an O2.

 

[Ravi]

Before he would ever be assigned to his duty station as a commissioned officer, doing his job as a doctor, he would have already gone through the security clearance and been granted one.

So what needs to be done is check the timelines and see when he was attending the radical church, and when he was commissioned. If he was attending before commissioning, then I would HAVE to doubt that he'd get the clearance.

I don't know the timelines though. Someone else who's been following this and cares more than me should figure that out.

It is unclear if it was a radical church, but apparently he attended the same one that two of the hijackers attended. If that means he was radical then, I've no idea...but it was back in 2000 or 2001.

Well...at least that is what is said...it seems everything is speculation at this point.

 

[Paulie]

He spent the better part of his military time in a civilian school, He was commissioned as a Captain and did his internship at Walter Reed. Ft Hood was actually his first duty assignment.

Sounds a bit like what my girlfriend might do for the Navy Nurse Corps. But how did he get commissioned at O-3? I guess he commissioned when he was already a Doctor? Usually you don't come in higher than O-1 unless you have significant degrees behind you.

I am not sure how the program works 100%, but as I understand it the Military paid for his college, then he was commissioned and had to serve so many years on active duty to pay for the college. I also believe that a Nurse can be commissioned as an O2.

Yeah I went with her to see the recruiter about two weeks ago. She'll be paid to finish her last year of school to get her BSN in Nursing, and when she graduates she'll be commissioned with the rank of Ensign (O-1)... then she'll go to Officer Development School for 5 weeks to learn military basics that I can pretty much teach her myself. I was a little fuzzy about why she'd be commissioned before ODS. I was just an enlisted grunt, I don't know how the whole officer structure completely works.

She may have been able to commission as O-2 if she already had a degree and it was a Masters. We didn't ask that though. I do know that usually officers don't come in higher than O-1 unless they have the big time degrees already, and from what I understand it usually involves the Medical field where that kind of thing happens.

 

[Paulie]

But I do know that before she is commissioned and sent to her first duty station, which would be Bethesda if she chooses to do this...she'd have already gone through the security clearance investigation and been granted one. She can't perform her duty without it.

So if she was attending radical churches lately, they'd be finding out about it, no doubt.

 

[Claudette]

Bodecea you seriously need to get your head out of your ass.

If this man had been investigated, because of his e-mails to a known terrorist sympathizer this may have been prevented. Why didn't they?? PC baby thats what its all about. We wouldn't want to save lives by profiling a terrorist now would we.

 

[kyzr]

Bodecea you seriously need to get your head out of your ass.

If this man had been investigated, because of his e-mails to a known terrorist sympathizer this may have been prevented. Why didn't they?? PC baby thats what its all about. We wouldn't want to save lives by profiling a terrorist now would we.

All I can think about is the way the dems fought the NSA tooth & nail to stop them from monitoring calls when one end is in the US and the other in the ME. I think the dems position is not helpful. Would a FISA judge let them tap his lines?
My position has always been that no one is entitled to "privacy" in the Constitution. Unlawful search and seizure of property, sure, but not the monitoring of communications, especially if the target is in the military or CIA/FBI/NSA/mossad/ or any other agency. I still remember how Ames & Hansen beat the system and cost us dearly.