Is law school worth it?

[Wry Catcher]

As I finish up law school (graduating in Jan 2010) and look towards a life outside of sales (its all I really know, besides some minor jobs in law) I am now thinking to myself was it worth it. It was hard work, but I knew that coming in. I didn't have undergrad student loans(thanks dad), but I have killer student loans now. The loans are well over $100K (I don't want to say how much because I might cry)! Its going to be like a second mortgage. It was sick how much they raised tuition in such a short time period! It was highway robbery!

With sales job I make in a bad year (like this year) $60-65K; in a moderately good year I make $80K and my best year I have made $140K (some of the best months of my life)! I go to a good school its not Northwestern Level, but its still highly regarded. I am close (but not in ) the top 25% of my class. Nevertheless jobs in law are few and far between and it looks now I would probably going to make less in law (at least starting out) than in sales!

Hope its worth it, because the rewards don't look as sweet as they did 4 1/2 years ago when signed up for this gig!


NOTE: If Obama comes out with a plan to help me with my student loans, then I will official become part of Oba***ama Fan Club! Hell if Pelosi came out with a program I might worship her! Sorry but I will sell out for that cause!

May I offer some career advice? Look into a career in law enforcement, one which offers early retirement (3% @ 50 is what I received, plus health insurance for life). There are local, state and federal agencies many of which offer this benefit. Salaries at the Supervisor level and above are all (at least here in California) above $100,000 per year.
If your fit, pass the extensive background investigaton and meet the physical, mental and psychological standards (only 4 in 100 do) you won't be sorry.

Yep. That's just what California needs - more LEOs in it for the wrong reasons.

point of order: It's "you're", not "your" fit.

Oh and what is an 'investigaton'? Is that a really heavy investiga?

Word of advice - if you are going to highlight typos in others' posts, it would be advisable to ensure your own are error-free. Doncha think?

Shall we continue to highlight the odd typo in each other's posts or shall we drop the pathetic childishness and focus on issues?

Mea culpa. I admit to making spelling and other misstakes quite often. I usually proof and edit before posting but sometimes I screw up. Now, I also admit I'm not a professional writer, as are you; I hold you to a higher standard. That said, I will limit my 'attacks' to your reasoning and critical thinking skills - given that you're a fringe conservative that should be easy.

 

[geauxtohell]

As I finish up law school (graduating in Jan 2010) and look towards a life outside of sales (its all I really know, besides some minor jobs in law) I am now thinking to myself was it worth it. It was hard work, but I knew that coming in. I didn't have undergrad student loans(thanks dad), but I have killer student loans now. The loans are well over $100K (I don't want to say how much because I might cry)! Its going to be like a second mortgage. It was sick how much they raised tuition in such a short time period! It was highway robbery!

With sales job I make in a bad year (like this year) $60-65K; in a moderately good year I make $80K and my best year I have made $140K (some of the best months of my life)! I go to a good school its not Northwestern Level, but its still highly regarded. I am close (but not in ) the top 25% of my class. Nevertheless jobs in law are few and far between and it looks now I would probably going to make less in law (at least starting out) than in sales!

Hope its worth it, because the rewards don't look as sweet as they did 4 1/2 years ago when signed up for this gig!


NOTE: If Obama comes out with a plan to help me with my student loans, then I will official become part of Obamalama Fan Club! Hell if Pelosi came out with a program I might worship her! Sorry but I will sell out for that cause!

Three years to a doctoral degree and full practice rights?

Quit whining.

Signed,

Student Doctor Geauxtohell

 

[GHook93]

I have spent to many Satur nights in law libraries over the past 4 1/2 years. At least studying tomorrow won't be as ton with Da Bears on a bye week!

 

[strollingbones]

just think...the first expense you will have to cut....the internet....

 

[strollingbones]

o i will take the few week old one...when you are down and out....i bet we can get someone to take each one of them..dont fret....

 

[strollingbones]

and i aint paying mal to any lawyer who cant spell saturday

 

[GHook93]

just think...the first expense you will have to cut....the internet....

LOL, I think I will cut diapers and baby food before I cut the internet (j/k)! More likely it will be alcohol (Not that I have a problem, but I do spend a ton every month on social drinking), Bears games (already warned the buddies I share season tickets with that I am probably bailing), Cubs games (watch them on TV), clothes (no more designer, TJ Max and Target for be ), dinners out, the maid (I have to help clean ) and no trip to Vegas or Disney this year (just when the deals have never been better and my son can enjoy Disney)! There will probably a dozen extras!

Alright back to the books!

 

[JD_2B]

just think...the first expense you will have to cut....the internet....

LOL, I think I will cut diapers and baby food before I cut the internet (j/k)! More likely it will be alcohol (Not that I have a problem, but I do spend a ton every month on social drinking), Bears games (already warned the buddies I share season tickets with that I am probably bailing), Cubs games (watch them on TV), clothes (no more designer, TJ Max and Target for be ), dinners out, the maid (I have to help clean ) and no trip to Vegas or Disney this year (just when the deals have never been better and my son can enjoy Disney)! There will probably a dozen extras!

Alright back to the books!

LOL I see you are not one going straight from college to law school..

NOW I get it! Aw that IS rough..

A few tips, then, to help you with financial and time management (because those are the hardest things to part with- money and time spent with the ones you love)-

1- Write everything in a planner, and include a tickler system so you dont forget your deadlines
2- Make weekly one on one appointments with your family- not the other way around.. Keep THESE dates, if none other. An hour playing cards a week with your kids, and a well deserved home cooked dinner for the wife, can make all the difference in showing your appreciation to the family for supporting your efforts. And yes- you can manage about an hour of alone time with each of them, even if you sit with your kid and do homework together.. (assuming you have a kid- you brought up Disney, after all)
3- Use public assistance if work starts getting in the way of your studies, if you qualify anyways.. Its nothing to be ashamed of..
4- Start your pro bono work early, and spread it out over the next year. This will make it easier to manage.
5- Don't text message any more than you absolutely have to, using the cellphone. Its a real time waster.

Financial-
1- Dont use the snack and soda machines/ convenience stores anymore.. You might be able to keep your vacation if you cut out the daily "junk" spending, and buy two liters, or make your coffee at home, pack a lunch, etc.
2- Dont go applying for credit cards when you run low on money..this is obvious
3- Try carpooling to school and work if you live near anyone..
4- Try using generic brands (if you haven't already) of staples (mayo, pasta, ketchup, bread, etc)- you will save a bundle
5- Quit the gym and walk at night with your family instead. This kills two birds with one stone (and if youre alone, you can always hook some headphones to a digital recorder and listen to the lectures that way)
6- Spend NO change at all- save it in a big jar
7- Don't put off tune ups and oil changes on your vehicle- this is a bad move, and you will end up spending a ton on gas while you wait to get around to it.
8- Hot baths are supposed to be a really good form of free birth control, google "heat" or "testicular heating" to find out more..
9- Bring the fun home- Use arts and crafts to create a tropical paradise and set up a hammock in the living room, complete with a box fan and margaritas.. Its not the real thing, but at least it will feel like a vacation, lol
10- treat yourselves to a special treat now and then.. There is no need to torture yourselves for being unwealthy. =)

 

[strollingbones]

just think...the first expense you will have to cut....the internet....

LOL, I think I will cut diapers and baby food before I cut the internet (j/k)! More likely it will be alcohol (Not that I have a problem, but I do spend a ton every month on social drinking), Bears games (already warned the buddies I share season tickets with that I am probably bailing), Cubs games (watch them on TV), clothes (no more designer, TJ Max and Target for be ), dinners out, the maid (I have to help clean ) and no trip to Vegas or Disney this year (just when the deals have never been better and my son can enjoy Disney)! There will probably a dozen extras!

Alright back to the books!

LOL I see you are not one going straight from college to law school..

NOW I get it! Aw that IS rough..

A few tips, then, to help you with financial and time management (because those are the hardest things to part with- money and time spent with the ones you love)-

1- Write everything in a planner, and include a tickler system so you dont forget your deadlines
2- Make weekly one on one appointments with your family- not the other way around.. Keep THESE dates, if none other. An hour playing cards a week with your kids, and a well deserved home cooked dinner for the wife, can make all the difference in showing your appreciation to the family for supporting your efforts. And yes- you can manage about an hour of alone time with each of them, even if you sit with your kid and do homework together.. (assuming you have a kid- you brought up Disney, after all)
3- Use public assistance if work starts getting in the way of your studies, if you qualify anyways.. Its nothing to be ashamed of..
4- Start your pro bono work early, and spread it out over the next year. This will make it easier to manage.
5- Don't text message any more than you absolutely have to, using the cellphone. Its a real time waster.

Financial-
1- Dont use the snack and soda machines/ convenience stores anymore.. You might be able to keep your vacation if you cut out the daily "junk" spending, and buy two liters, or make your coffee at home, pack a lunch, etc.
2- Dont go applying for credit cards when you run low on money..this is obvious
3- Try carpooling to school and work if you live near anyone..
4- Try using generic brands (if you haven't already) of staples (mayo, pasta, ketchup, bread, etc)- you will save a bundle
5- Quit the gym and walk at night with your family instead. This kills two birds with one stone (and if youre alone, you can always hook some headphones to a digital recorder and listen to the lectures that way)
6- Spend NO change at all- save it in a big jar
7- Don't put off tune ups and oil changes on your vehicle- this is a bad move, and you will end up spending a ton on gas while you wait to get around to it.
8- Hot baths are supposed to be a really good form of free birth control, google "heat" or "testicular heating" to find out more..9- Bring the fun home- Use arts and crafts to create a tropical paradise and set up a hammock in the living room, complete with a box fan and margaritas.. Its not the real thing, but at least it will feel like a vacation, lol
10- treat yourselves to a special treat now and then.. There is no need to torture yourselves for being unwealthy. =)

really? i mean, really?

you tell a man with 3 kids this?

damn ghook you have a maid? look if you are ambitious enough to go to law school..blah blah blah bullshit blah blah..you will be fine.

i still want the little one....cause i aint getting me no grandchildren...it does seem

 

[GHook93]

LOL I see you are not one going straight from college to law school..

Nope I took a few years off and I kick myself year day for it. When I graduated from undergrad my father offered to pay for law school if I went then! I took a few years off and got married and the offer was rescinded!

1- Write everything in a planner, and include a tickler system so you dont forget your deadlines

Honestly it more I have to write everything my wife does!

2- Make weekly one on one appointments with your family- not the other way around.. Keep THESE dates, if none other. An hour playing cards a week with your kids, and a well deserved home cooked dinner for the wife, can make all the difference in showing your appreciation to the family for supporting your efforts. And yes- you can manage about an hour of alone time with each of them, even if you sit with your kid and do homework together.. (assuming you have a kid- you brought up Disney, after all)

I do this already. I take sometime to take the little buggers to the park! For 1 hour after work when I don't have class. Since we don't let them watch TV (much, 1 movie before they go to bed), they are very active little buggers. When the snow comes it will be 1 hour in the basement!

3- Use public assistance if work starts getting in the way of your studies, if you qualify anyways.. Its nothing to be ashamed of..

Even with hugely decreased commission, the wife and I still combined make over $100K, they don't give food stamps for that!

4- Start your pro bono work early, and spread it out over the next year. This will make it easier to manage.

Even though going sole is an option because the market is that bad, I still plan on working for someone first so I can gain real world experience!

5- Don't text message any more than you absolutely have to, using the cellphone. Its a real time waster.

This is a no can do! I am a chronic text messenger! I think its a guy thing. Guys like to communicate with our buddies (esp one's far away) but we don't like to pick up the phone and call, texting is a great alternative!

1- Dont use the snack and soda machines/ convenience stores anymore.. You might be able to keep your vacation if you cut out the daily "junk" spending, and buy two liters, or make your coffee at home, pack a lunch, etc.

I brown bag lunch and dinner (when I go to school) right now. I stick to mostly water for health reasons anyways!

2- Dont go applying for credit cards when you run low on money..this is obvious

Too late, I am a little over my head here, but that is OK!

3- Try carpooling to school and work if you live near anyone..

I only work 5 miles from my home and I take the train down to school (burbs to the city is a killer during rush hour)! I tried carpool with a buddy before, and the inconvenience wasn't worth whatever I saved!

4- Try using generic brands (if you haven't already) of staples (mayo, pasta, ketchup, bread, etc)- you will save a bundle

Also shop at Walmart (Opps don't say that out loud you capitalist pig) and Aldi (AMAZING PRICES! and the food isn't bad)

5- Quit the gym and walk at night with your family instead. This kills two birds with one stone (and if youre alone, you can always hook some headphones to a digital recorder and listen to the lectures that way)

No can do! I have been lifting weights since my football and wrestling days back in highschool (and briefly in college for wrestling), it's a stress reliever I need. Not to mention I still play racquetball ball with my old man at the gym. I have trouble getting motivation to run around the neighborhood esp during winter season.

6- Spend NO change at all- save it in a big jar

I already do this, but mainly to keep change off the floor so the little buggers don't eat and choke on them!

7- Don't put off tune ups and oil changes on your vehicle- this is a bad move, and you will end up spending a ton on while you wait to get around to it.

Agreed!

8- Hot baths are supposed to be a really good form of free birth control, google "heat" or "testicular heating" to find out more..

All the little bugger were planned (well the 3rd one not entirely, but it was not like we were preventing it; more like if it happens it happens)! I also have little time for baths!

9- Bring the fun home- Use arts and crafts to create a tropical paradise and set up a hammock in the living room, complete with a box fan and margaritas.. Its not the real thing, but at least it will feel like a vacation, lol

Yea I don't think that will work!

10- treat yourselves to a special treat now and then.. There is no need to torture yourselves for being unwealthy. =)

I agree!

 

[GHook93]

As I finish up law school (graduating in Jan 2010) and look towards a life outside of sales (its all I really know, besides some minor jobs in law) I am now thinking to myself was it worth it. It was hard work, but I knew that coming in. I didn't have undergrad student loans(thanks dad), but I have killer student loans now. The loans are well over $100K (I don't want to say how much because I might cry)! Its going to be like a second mortgage. It was sick how much they raised tuition in such a short time period! It was highway robbery!

With sales job I make in a bad year (like this year) $60-65K; in a moderately good year I make $80K and my best year I have made $140K (some of the best months of my life)! I go to a good school its not Northwestern Level, but its still highly regarded. I am close (but not in ) the top 25% of my class. Nevertheless jobs in law are few and far between and it looks now I would probably going to make less in law (at least starting out) than in sales!

Hope its worth it, because the rewards don't look as sweet as they did 4 1/2 years ago when signed up for this gig!


NOTE: If Obama comes out with a plan to help me with my student loans, then I will official become part of Obamalama Fan Club! Hell if Pelosi came out with a program I might worship her! Sorry but I will sell out for that cause!

May I offer some career advice? Look into a career in law enforcement, one which offers early retirement (3% @ 50 is what I received, plus health insurance for life). There are local, state and federal agencies many of which offer this benefit. Salaries at the Supervisor level and above are all (at least here in California) above $100,000 per year.
If your fit, pass the extensive background investigaton and meet the physical, mental and psychological standards (only 4 in 100 do) you won't be sorry.

Thanks for the advice, but law enforcement is not for me. For a variety of reasons:
(1) I would be disbarred, because I have no pitty on child molesters and rapists! Both are scum of the earth in my opinion and I would bend rules to make them suffer.
(2) I don't think I have the stomach to deal with things like murder, rape and esp child molestation. Its just not me!
(3) I am not a crusader, I'm an entrepreneur! To be in law enforcement you must be a crusader! That is not me!
(4) I mainly went into law, because I love all aspects about the law and that was strengthen throughout law school, but I would lie if I stated I wasn't motivated big time by money! Income potential at first isn't what people think, but the sky is the limit. I have made well over $100K in few years doing sales. If $100K is a the ceiling then that is not for me. You have to realize that as a Chicago Jew, I have been around my share of lawyers and less just say $100K wouldn't excite them either. Note: the only way to make the big bucks in criminal law is being the defendant's lawyer. Even though I believe every defendant deserve representation as provided by the 6th amendment. That is not me!

 

[RodISHI]

I have found it is difficult to find attorneys that specialize in contract law. A good suit for breech of contract at 33% for your share could be the one that sets you on your way to being independent. The suit I had against the manufacturer was said to be worth 7 million as that is what the losses totaled at the end of the day.

I think you will make a good attorney and since you did make the effort to go to law school that is what must be in your heart to pursue.

 

[JD_2B]

Of course, even breach of contract suits would have to involve some kind of tort to be worth millions to a lawyer, also..

I always thought that contract law was sort of grandfathered into the whole personal injury specialty? Or are you discussing something even more specialized?

 

[editec]

As I finish up law school (graduating in Jan 2010) and look towards a life outside of sales (its all I really know, besides some minor jobs in law) I am now thinking to myself was it worth it. It was hard work, but I knew that coming in. I didn't have undergrad student loans(thanks dad), but I have killer student loans now. The loans are well over $100K (I don't want to say how much because I might cry)! Its going to be like a second mortgage. It was sick how much they raised tuition in such a short time period! It was highway robbery!

With sales job I make in a bad year (like this year) $60-65K; in a moderately good year I make $80K and my best year I have made $140K (some of the best months of my life)! I go to a good school its not Northwestern Level, but its still highly regarded. I am close (but not in ) the top 25% of my class. Nevertheless jobs in law are few and far between and it looks now I would probably going to make less in law (at least starting out) than in sales!

Hope its worth it, because the rewards don't look as sweet as they did 4 1/2 years ago when signed up for this gig!


NOTE: If Obama comes out with a plan to help me with my student loans, then I will official become part of Obamalama Fan Club! Hell if Pelosi came out with a program I might worship her! Sorry but I will sell out for that cause!

Good luck, Ghook.

I'm informed that most lawyers' wealth is basically decided by the wealth of their average client.

If your point is to grow wealthy, stick to those areas of the law where your clients are already rich.

If your point was to a player who makes a difference in society?

Well then your clients depend on how you define making a difference.

 

[RodISHI]

Of course, even breach of contract suits would have to involve some kind of tort to be worth millions to a lawyer, also..

I always thought that contract law was sort of grandfathered into the whole personal injury specialty? Or are you discussing something even more specialized?

My business losses alone came to 7 mil. Contract business law to be specific has very few attorneys in the field when you go searching. Small fish in big pond few seem to be interested in.

 

[JD_2B]

Of course, even breach of contract suits would have to involve some kind of tort to be worth millions to a lawyer, also..

I always thought that contract law was sort of grandfathered into the whole personal injury specialty? Or are you discussing something even more specialized?

My business losses alone came to 7 mil. Contract business law to be specific has very few attorneys in the field when you go searching. Small fish in big pond few seem to be interested in.

Wow thanks for the tip!!