CDZ Is kneeling the most effective protest?

[oldsoul]

The establishment of the media, government officials and the entire entertainment industry are very interested in keeping people divided. The last thing any of them want, in fact their worst nightmare is for the American public to suddenly start seeing things with a clear mind.

You missed one. The Russians. Yup, I said it, the Russians. Want evidence? Who financially (through surrogates of course) backed Trump, BLM, Clinton, and now Antifa? If you said "Russia", you would be correct. So, yeah, keep on giving the Russians what they want, keep on being divided and divisive, I assure you that Putin is only playing around and has no intentions of making a power play. His expansionist intentions only include Ukraine, and other former members of the USSR. He has no plans to undermine the USA, none at all.

 

[SSGT Bags]

I saw this on facebook.....and it was confirmed here: FACT CHECK: Did a U.S. Veteran Influence Kaepernick's 'Take a Knee' Protest of Police Brutality? ... is this really so bad?

How it all started:

How it all started, and how we got here.

(Unfortunately, the people that could learn something by reading this likely won't bother).

Did you know this?

Aug 14, 2016- Colin Kaepernick sits for the national anthem.....and no one noticed.

Aug 20th, 2016- Colin again sits, and again, no one noticed.

Aug 26th, 2016- Colin sits and this time he is met with a level of vitriol unseen against an athlete. Even the future President of the United States took shots at him while on the campaign trail. Colin went on to explain his protest had NOTHING to with the military, but he felt it hard to stand for a flag that didn't treat people of color fairly.

Then on on Aug 30th, 2016 Nate Boyer, a former Army Green Beret turned NFL long snapper, penned an open letter to Colin in the Army Times. In it he expressed how Colin's sitting affected him.

Then a strange thing happened. Colin was able to do what most Americans to date have not...
He listened.

In his letter, Mr. Boyer writes:
"I’m not judging you for standing up for what you believe in. It’s your inalienable right. What you are doing takes a lot of courage, and I’d be lying if I said I knew what it was like to walk around in your shoes. I’ve never had to deal with prejudice because of the color of my skin, and for me to say I can relate to what you’ve gone through is as ignorant as someone who’s never been in a combat zone telling me they understand what it’s like to go to war.
Even though my initial reaction to your protest was one of anger, I’m trying to listen to what you’re saying and why you’re doing it."

Mr. Boyer goes on to write "There are already plenty people fighting fire with fire, and it’s just not helping anyone or anything. So I’m just going to keep listening, with an open mind. I look forward to the day you're inspired to once again stand during our national anthem. I'll be standing right there next to you."

Empathy and understanding was shown by Mr. Boyer.........and Mr. Kaepernick reciprocated.

Colin invited Nate to San Diego where the two had a 90 minute discussion and Nate proposed Colin kneel instead of sit.

But why kneel? In a military funeral, after the flag is taken off the casket of the fallen military member, it is smartly folded 13 times and then presented to the parents, spouse or child of the fallen member by a fellow service member while KNEELING. The two decided that kneeling for the flag would symbolize his reverence for those that paid the ultimate sacrifice while still allowing Colin to peacefully protest the injustices he saw.

Empathy, not zealotry under the guise of patriotism, is the only way meaningful discussion can be had. Mr. Kaepernick listened to all of you that say he disrespects the military and extended an olive branch to find a peace.

When will America listen to him?

We can all learn from this backstory. The truth often lies in the middle. Seek to learn the opposing side's point.

OH, let's tell the WHOLE story shall we?
Weeks earlier the spineless multi-millionaire half-white CK wears socks with pig faces wearing police hats.
The NFL says nothing, even thought it violates the NFL Handbook (not rule book).
Now he take a knee, again violating the NFL handbook.
Again - no fines!
Why?
Goodell is a PC woosie!

 

[Coyote]

I saw this on facebook.....and it was confirmed here: FACT CHECK: Did a U.S. Veteran Influence Kaepernick's 'Take a Knee' Protest of Police Brutality? ... is this really so bad?

How it all started:

How it all started, and how we got here.

(Unfortunately, the people that could learn something by reading this likely won't bother).

Did you know this?

Aug 14, 2016- Colin Kaepernick sits for the national anthem.....and no one noticed.

Aug 20th, 2016- Colin again sits, and again, no one noticed.

Aug 26th, 2016- Colin sits and this time he is met with a level of vitriol unseen against an athlete. Even the future President of the United States took shots at him while on the campaign trail. Colin went on to explain his protest had NOTHING to with the military, but he felt it hard to stand for a flag that didn't treat people of color fairly.

Then on on Aug 30th, 2016 Nate Boyer, a former Army Green Beret turned NFL long snapper, penned an open letter to Colin in the Army Times. In it he expressed how Colin's sitting affected him.

Then a strange thing happened. Colin was able to do what most Americans to date have not...
He listened.

In his letter, Mr. Boyer writes:
"I’m not judging you for standing up for what you believe in. It’s your inalienable right. What you are doing takes a lot of courage, and I’d be lying if I said I knew what it was like to walk around in your shoes. I’ve never had to deal with prejudice because of the color of my skin, and for me to say I can relate to what you’ve gone through is as ignorant as someone who’s never been in a combat zone telling me they understand what it’s like to go to war.
Even though my initial reaction to your protest was one of anger, I’m trying to listen to what you’re saying and why you’re doing it."

Mr. Boyer goes on to write "There are already plenty people fighting fire with fire, and it’s just not helping anyone or anything. So I’m just going to keep listening, with an open mind. I look forward to the day you're inspired to once again stand during our national anthem. I'll be standing right there next to you."

Empathy and understanding was shown by Mr. Boyer.........and Mr. Kaepernick reciprocated.

Colin invited Nate to San Diego where the two had a 90 minute discussion and Nate proposed Colin kneel instead of sit.

But why kneel? In a military funeral, after the flag is taken off the casket of the fallen military member, it is smartly folded 13 times and then presented to the parents, spouse or child of the fallen member by a fellow service member while KNEELING. The two decided that kneeling for the flag would symbolize his reverence for those that paid the ultimate sacrifice while still allowing Colin to peacefully protest the injustices he saw.

Empathy, not zealotry under the guise of patriotism, is the only way meaningful discussion can be had. Mr. Kaepernick listened to all of you that say he disrespects the military and extended an olive branch to find a peace.

When will America listen to him?

We can all learn from this backstory. The truth often lies in the middle. Seek to learn the opposing side's point.

OH, let's tell the WHOLE story shall we?
Weeks earlier the spineless multi-millionaire half-white CK wears socks with pig faces wearing police hats.
The NFL says nothing, even thought it violates the NFL Handbook (not rule book).
Now he take a knee, again violating the NFL handbook.
Again - no fines!
Why?
Goodell is a PC woosie!

What doed the rulebook actually say?

 

[Coyote]

What I find odd is when Tim Tebow kneeled in prayer he was mercilessly attacked by the media, but kneeling for the anthem is acceptable. The symbolism of one is more offensive than the other, though the paying public disagrees.

Of all of Trumps goals and accomplishments, his calling out and challenging of the media might be his greatest contribution in the long run. This point must chap the hide of so many who had been given a free pass.

I will say in my opinion, kneeling for the flag in protest is not the most effective form of protest. Not by a long shot.

CK is being mercilessly attacked by the rightwing media for much the same reasons, acting on his beliefs.

 

[Toronado3800]

Both sides are not listening too each other, clearly. But let me for a second try to add some perspective to this debate, that has gotten pretty ridiculous.

It's probably pretty fair to say that most who support the kneeling, also find the confederate flag racist. To people who fly the stars and bars, many do not fly it because of racism, they do not support slavery, they don't wish to reinstate slavery, they don't stand for what the south stood for back then. For many, it's a sign that they believe the southern way of living is better than the north, or the south is just better than the north, or they are a fan of country music and the country life. But some still find it racist, and should those who find it racist be ignored?

Now while you're thinking about that, let's move onto the kneeling. To those who don't support the kneeling during the anthem, you have to understand what that symbol is to them. Now those who kneel for the anthem may have zero ill will or disrespect to service members, but it still means something else to the people who choose to stand and sing. To them, they have always been taught that we stand and sing this anthem in reverence to those who have fought and died for our freedoms, it's not just a song we sing BC we love our country, to them it's almost a ritual, almost like a religious ceremony, that we do to pay our respects to those who deserve it the most in our country, that we do not do enough for. So in the same way that people find the stars and bars a deeply racist symbol, those who stand for the anthem find it deeply disrespectful to those who have served and sacrificed. So by kneeling, are we really trying to effect change. It may not be done to be disrespectful to service members, but that's how people are going to interpret it, no matter what. Is disrespecting something important and almost sacred in their culture, really the best way to try to reach the very same people you're trying to bring awareness too, even though disrespect isn't necessarily your intentions?

FWIW, I'm about 6 miles from Ferguson, my oldest had his first ice cream cone at the old Whistle Stop there and my Mustang's wheels come from the looted Zisser Tire and Auto (I did not loot mine lol!). So I see some protesters.

I LOVE the kneeling for the anthem idea. Kneeling is not the most disrespectful thing anyone can do. Heck, Catholics spend half of mass getting up and down from kneeling to their god. Blocking traffic angers people. Folks need to get their kids from daycare and the like. Rioting just empowers the racists to speak their minds and sets back race relations 50 years. Although it is nice to know who the racists are I admit.

This kneeling thing is the least dangerous and disruptive form of protest I have seen in a long time. It also gets TONS of attention. I have gone from not caring to thinking its a GREAT idea. Hell, my friends and associates would love it if I just knelt quietly and respectfully whenever they did anything I disagreed with.

The anti-kneelers are some pretty sensitive folks IMO. Not counting those who just have a case of flag and anthem worship largely due to military brainwashing techniques, most anti-kneelers fall into the group that (correctly) makes fun of schools for being too sensitive and renaming Halloween "Fall Holiday" or whatever. Hypocrisy at work.

In conclusion I wish I could think of more things as peaceful and effective as kneeling during the anthem to tell my friends and neighbors to go do when they feel the need to protest. If you have ideas give them to me.

 

[danielpalos]

Both sides are not listening too each other, clearly. But let me for a second try to add some perspective to this debate, that has gotten pretty ridiculous.

It's probably pretty fair to say that most who support the kneeling, also find the confederate flag racist. To people who fly the stars and bars, many do not fly it because of racism, they do not support slavery, they don't wish to reinstate slavery, they don't stand for what the south stood for back then. For many, it's a sign that they believe the southern way of living is better than the north, or the south is just better than the north, or they are a fan of country music and the country life. But some still find it racist, and should those who find it racist be ignored?

Now while you're thinking about that, let's move onto the kneeling. To those who don't support the kneeling during the anthem, you have to understand what that symbol is to them. Now those who kneel for the anthem may have zero ill will or disrespect to service members, but it still means something else to the people who choose to stand and sing. To them, they have always been taught that we stand and sing this anthem in reverence to those who have fought and died for our freedoms, it's not just a song we sing BC we love our country, to them it's almost a ritual, almost like a religious ceremony, that we do to pay our respects to those who deserve it the most in our country, that we do not do enough for. So in the same way that people find the stars and bars a deeply racist symbol, those who stand for the anthem find it deeply disrespectful to those who have served and sacrificed. So by kneeling, are we really trying to effect change. It may not be done to be disrespectful to service members, but that's how people are going to interpret it, no matter what. Is disrespecting something important and almost sacred in their culture, really the best way to try to reach the very same people you're trying to bring awareness too, even though disrespect isn't necessarily your intentions?

Well regulated militia may have one rank kneel while the other rank stands behind them.

 

[sakinago]

Both sides are not listening too each other, clearly. But let me for a second try to add some perspective to this debate, that has gotten pretty ridiculous.

It's probably pretty fair to say that most who support the kneeling, also find the confederate flag racist. To people who fly the stars and bars, many do not fly it because of racism, they do not support slavery, they don't wish to reinstate slavery, they don't stand for what the south stood for back then. For many, it's a sign that they believe the southern way of living is better than the north, or the south is just better than the north, or they are a fan of country music and the country life. But some still find it racist, and should those who find it racist be ignored?

Now while you're thinking about that, let's move onto the kneeling. To those who don't support the kneeling during the anthem, you have to understand what that symbol is to them. Now those who kneel for the anthem may have zero ill will or disrespect to service members, but it still means something else to the people who choose to stand and sing. To them, they have always been taught that we stand and sing this anthem in reverence to those who have fought and died for our freedoms, it's not just a song we sing BC we love our country, to them it's almost a ritual, almost like a religious ceremony, that we do to pay our respects to those who deserve it the most in our country, that we do not do enough for. So in the same way that people find the stars and bars a deeply racist symbol, those who stand for the anthem find it deeply disrespectful to those who have served and sacrificed. So by kneeling, are we really trying to effect change. It may not be done to be disrespectful to service members, but that's how people are going to interpret it, no matter what. Is disrespecting something important and almost sacred in their culture, really the best way to try to reach the very same people you're trying to bring awareness too, even though disrespect isn't necessarily your intentions?

FWIW, I'm about 6 miles from Ferguson, my oldest had his first ice cream cone at the old Whistle Stop there and my Mustang's wheels come from the looted Zisser Tire and Auto (I did not loot mine lol!). So I see some protesters.

I LOVE the kneeling for the anthem idea. Kneeling is not the most disrespectful thing anyone can do. Heck, Catholics spend half of mass getting up and down from kneeling to their god. Blocking traffic angers people. Folks need to get their kids from daycare and the like. Rioting just empowers the racists to speak their minds and sets back race relations 50 years. Although it is nice to know who the racists are I admit.

This kneeling thing is the least dangerous and disruptive form of protest I have seen in a long time. It also gets TONS of attention. I have gone from not caring to thinking its a GREAT idea. Hell, my friends and associates would love it if I just knelt quietly and respectfully whenever they did anything I disagreed with.

The anti-kneelers are some pretty sensitive folks IMO. Not counting those who just have a case of flag and anthem worship largely due to military brainwashing techniques, most anti-kneelers fall into the group that (correctly) makes fun of schools for being too sensitive and renaming Halloween "Fall Holiday" or whatever. Hypocrisy at work.

In conclusion I wish I could think of more things as peaceful and effective as kneeling during the anthem to tell my friends and neighbors to go do when they feel the need to protest. If you have ideas give them to me.

Ok again, I think you’re missing the point, just because YOU do not see it as being disrespectful, does not mean others DO see it as disrespectful. And we are talking about 52% (last stat I saw on the matter) who do see it as disrespectful, either to the troops, police, the nation, or a combination of all 3. So when you just kind of declare it as not being disrespectful, you’re kind of not listening to 52% of the population. It’s also not fair to lump in those 52% of people who find it disrespectful into the same group. Not everyone has the same degree of feeling the dis on the matter. Some have been very upset with it from the get go (at first kapernick just sat on the bench for it, until a service member asked him to at least kneel for it, so the story goes. And to make matters worse, he wore the pigs with police hat socks which was INDEED very disrespectful, and then wore a Castro shirt...yes someone who cried about oppression celebrated a man who executed and imprisoned thousands of thousands of political dissidents for decades). Some people don’t like it but say hey that’s their choice. And others didn’t really loose their shit until trump piped up on the matter, and then even more players knelt, and that really set some people off because it defied trump. Some people don’t care all that much, but are just sick and tired of politics being shoved down the throats of everyone, even when it comes to sports, which is supposed to be an escape from it for them.

I think the way the cowboys did it, where they all knelt together before hand, but stood for the anthem was the way to go about it. Certainly a much much better way to get the message across without upsetting people. Which is what this kneeling thing has really turned into, it’s not even about the issues anymore, it’s more of a kneeling in defiance to trump, and the equivalent of doing just a hashtag (#insertjustcause) publicly on twitter as a replacement of actually talking the issue out.

If we were actually talking the issue out, the conversation would go a lot differently. But when you starting point is there is a systemic racism among police, and police are committing murder left and right against black people...well that’s not gonna go over well, it’s not really reality, and it’s just more of the creating/manufacturing of a class of victims as a kind of form of peacocking, and pandering against reason that even people who don’t care much about politics (not just those right of center) have had enough of. This is one of the reasons trump won an election he never should have (as well as Hillary being a terrible candidate, but trump was just as bad). The difference is trump didn’t talk like a politician, or pander like a politician, he called it like he saw it (which wasn’t always the way it actually was), which was a stark contrast to the crazy direction PC was taking us.

And just because kneeling is not as bad rioting...doesn’t make it that much more effective. And rioting was also the starting point of BLM, and still attached to BLM. We had over a year of rioting, before the facts would even come out. That’s still gonna be stuck in people’s minds when you kneel. You’re kneeling for the cause that didn’t really condemn rioting as strong as they should have

 

[Cossack1483]

Time to leave the kneelgros behind ; in the dust. As a new Advanced White Society emerges from the hot cheetos and newports.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Both sides are not listening too each other, clearly. But let me for a second try to add some perspective to this debate, that has gotten pretty ridiculous.

It's probably pretty fair to say that most who support the kneeling, also find the confederate flag racist. To people who fly the stars and bars, many do not fly it because of racism, they do not support slavery, they don't wish to reinstate slavery, they don't stand for what the south stood for back then. For many, it's a sign that they believe the southern way of living is better than the north, or the south is just better than the north, or they are a fan of country music and the country life. But some still find it racist, and should those who find it racist be ignored?

Now while you're thinking about that, let's move onto the kneeling. To those who don't support the kneeling during the anthem, you have to understand what that symbol is to them. Now those who kneel for the anthem may have zero ill will or disrespect to service members, but it still means something else to the people who choose to stand and sing. To them, they have always been taught that we stand and sing this anthem in reverence to those who have fought and died for our freedoms, it's not just a song we sing BC we love our country, to them it's almost a ritual, almost like a religious ceremony, that we do to pay our respects to those who deserve it the most in our country, that we do not do enough for. So in the same way that people find the stars and bars a deeply racist symbol, those who stand for the anthem find it deeply disrespectful to those who have served and sacrificed. So by kneeling, are we really trying to effect change. It may not be done to be disrespectful to service members, but that's how people are going to interpret it, no matter what. Is disrespecting something important and almost sacred in their culture, really the best way to try to reach the very same people you're trying to bring awareness too, even though disrespect isn't necessarily your intentions?

The Confederate flag isn't necessarily racist, it's treasonous, that's what it is.

 

[sakinago]

Both sides are not listening too each other, clearly. But let me for a second try to add some perspective to this debate, that has gotten pretty ridiculous.

It's probably pretty fair to say that most who support the kneeling, also find the confederate flag racist. To people who fly the stars and bars, many do not fly it because of racism, they do not support slavery, they don't wish to reinstate slavery, they don't stand for what the south stood for back then. For many, it's a sign that they believe the southern way of living is better than the north, or the south is just better than the north, or they are a fan of country music and the country life. But some still find it racist, and should those who find it racist be ignored?

Now while you're thinking about that, let's move onto the kneeling. To those who don't support the kneeling during the anthem, you have to understand what that symbol is to them. Now those who kneel for the anthem may have zero ill will or disrespect to service members, but it still means something else to the people who choose to stand and sing. To them, they have always been taught that we stand and sing this anthem in reverence to those who have fought and died for our freedoms, it's not just a song we sing BC we love our country, to them it's almost a ritual, almost like a religious ceremony, that we do to pay our respects to those who deserve it the most in our country, that we do not do enough for. So in the same way that people find the stars and bars a deeply racist symbol, those who stand for the anthem find it deeply disrespectful to those who have served and sacrificed. So by kneeling, are we really trying to effect change. It may not be done to be disrespectful to service members, but that's how people are going to interpret it, no matter what. Is disrespecting something important and almost sacred in their culture, really the best way to try to reach the very same people you're trying to bring awareness too, even though disrespect isn't necessarily your intentions?

The Confederate flag isn't necessarily racist, it's treasonous, that's what it is.

Wouldn’t burning the flag be treasonous too?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Both sides are not listening too each other, clearly. But let me for a second try to add some perspective to this debate, that has gotten pretty ridiculous.

It's probably pretty fair to say that most who support the kneeling, also find the confederate flag racist. To people who fly the stars and bars, many do not fly it because of racism, they do not support slavery, they don't wish to reinstate slavery, they don't stand for what the south stood for back then. For many, it's a sign that they believe the southern way of living is better than the north, or the south is just better than the north, or they are a fan of country music and the country life. But some still find it racist, and should those who find it racist be ignored?

Now while you're thinking about that, let's move onto the kneeling. To those who don't support the kneeling during the anthem, you have to understand what that symbol is to them. Now those who kneel for the anthem may have zero ill will or disrespect to service members, but it still means something else to the people who choose to stand and sing. To them, they have always been taught that we stand and sing this anthem in reverence to those who have fought and died for our freedoms, it's not just a song we sing BC we love our country, to them it's almost a ritual, almost like a religious ceremony, that we do to pay our respects to those who deserve it the most in our country, that we do not do enough for. So in the same way that people find the stars and bars a deeply racist symbol, those who stand for the anthem find it deeply disrespectful to those who have served and sacrificed. So by kneeling, are we really trying to effect change. It may not be done to be disrespectful to service members, but that's how people are going to interpret it, no matter what. Is disrespecting something important and almost sacred in their culture, really the best way to try to reach the very same people you're trying to bring awareness too, even though disrespect isn't necessarily your intentions?

The Confederate flag isn't necessarily racist, it's treasonous, that's what it is.

Wouldn’t burning the flag be treasonous too?

No.

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."

Burning the flag is not levying war against the USA, or adhering to the US's enemies, or giving them aid or comfort.

 

[sakinago]

Both sides are not listening too each other, clearly. But let me for a second try to add some perspective to this debate, that has gotten pretty ridiculous.

It's probably pretty fair to say that most who support the kneeling, also find the confederate flag racist. To people who fly the stars and bars, many do not fly it because of racism, they do not support slavery, they don't wish to reinstate slavery, they don't stand for what the south stood for back then. For many, it's a sign that they believe the southern way of living is better than the north, or the south is just better than the north, or they are a fan of country music and the country life. But some still find it racist, and should those who find it racist be ignored?

Now while you're thinking about that, let's move onto the kneeling. To those who don't support the kneeling during the anthem, you have to understand what that symbol is to them. Now those who kneel for the anthem may have zero ill will or disrespect to service members, but it still means something else to the people who choose to stand and sing. To them, they have always been taught that we stand and sing this anthem in reverence to those who have fought and died for our freedoms, it's not just a song we sing BC we love our country, to them it's almost a ritual, almost like a religious ceremony, that we do to pay our respects to those who deserve it the most in our country, that we do not do enough for. So in the same way that people find the stars and bars a deeply racist symbol, those who stand for the anthem find it deeply disrespectful to those who have served and sacrificed. So by kneeling, are we really trying to effect change. It may not be done to be disrespectful to service members, but that's how people are going to interpret it, no matter what. Is disrespecting something important and almost sacred in their culture, really the best way to try to reach the very same people you're trying to bring awareness too, even though disrespect isn't necessarily your intentions?

The Confederate flag isn't necessarily racist, it's treasonous, that's what it is.

Wouldn’t burning the flag be treasonous too?

No.

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."

Burning the flag is not levying war against the USA, or adhering to the US's enemies, or giving them aid or comfort.

Yea but no one whose flown the confederate flag has levied war against the United States in the past 100+years, or have adhered to the confederacy (since it doesn’t exist), or have given aid to the confederacy when it existed.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Both sides are not listening too each other, clearly. But let me for a second try to add some perspective to this debate, that has gotten pretty ridiculous.

It's probably pretty fair to say that most who support the kneeling, also find the confederate flag racist. To people who fly the stars and bars, many do not fly it because of racism, they do not support slavery, they don't wish to reinstate slavery, they don't stand for what the south stood for back then. For many, it's a sign that they believe the southern way of living is better than the north, or the south is just better than the north, or they are a fan of country music and the country life. But some still find it racist, and should those who find it racist be ignored?

Now while you're thinking about that, let's move onto the kneeling. To those who don't support the kneeling during the anthem, you have to understand what that symbol is to them. Now those who kneel for the anthem may have zero ill will or disrespect to service members, but it still means something else to the people who choose to stand and sing. To them, they have always been taught that we stand and sing this anthem in reverence to those who have fought and died for our freedoms, it's not just a song we sing BC we love our country, to them it's almost a ritual, almost like a religious ceremony, that we do to pay our respects to those who deserve it the most in our country, that we do not do enough for. So in the same way that people find the stars and bars a deeply racist symbol, those who stand for the anthem find it deeply disrespectful to those who have served and sacrificed. So by kneeling, are we really trying to effect change. It may not be done to be disrespectful to service members, but that's how people are going to interpret it, no matter what. Is disrespecting something important and almost sacred in their culture, really the best way to try to reach the very same people you're trying to bring awareness too, even though disrespect isn't necessarily your intentions?

The Confederate flag isn't necessarily racist, it's treasonous, that's what it is.

Wouldn’t burning the flag be treasonous too?

No.

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."

Burning the flag is not levying war against the USA, or adhering to the US's enemies, or giving them aid or comfort.

Yea but no one whose flown the confederate flag has levied war against the United States in the past 100+years, or have adhered to the confederacy (since it doesn’t exist), or have given aid to the confederacy when it existed.

No, they haven't.

However they support treason against the US.

The guys who kneel they haven't ever waged war against the US and yet, people are telling us they're anti-US military.

Hell, you support a war in which 140,000 US military personnel died, and it's okay. You support kneeling and it's wrong, really wrong, because it's against the US military.

Tell me this isn't contradictory.

 

[sakinago]

Both sides are not listening too each other, clearly. But let me for a second try to add some perspective to this debate, that has gotten pretty ridiculous.

It's probably pretty fair to say that most who support the kneeling, also find the confederate flag racist. To people who fly the stars and bars, many do not fly it because of racism, they do not support slavery, they don't wish to reinstate slavery, they don't stand for what the south stood for back then. For many, it's a sign that they believe the southern way of living is better than the north, or the south is just better than the north, or they are a fan of country music and the country life. But some still find it racist, and should those who find it racist be ignored?

Now while you're thinking about that, let's move onto the kneeling. To those who don't support the kneeling during the anthem, you have to understand what that symbol is to them. Now those who kneel for the anthem may have zero ill will or disrespect to service members, but it still means something else to the people who choose to stand and sing. To them, they have always been taught that we stand and sing this anthem in reverence to those who have fought and died for our freedoms, it's not just a song we sing BC we love our country, to them it's almost a ritual, almost like a religious ceremony, that we do to pay our respects to those who deserve it the most in our country, that we do not do enough for. So in the same way that people find the stars and bars a deeply racist symbol, those who stand for the anthem find it deeply disrespectful to those who have served and sacrificed. So by kneeling, are we really trying to effect change. It may not be done to be disrespectful to service members, but that's how people are going to interpret it, no matter what. Is disrespecting something important and almost sacred in their culture, really the best way to try to reach the very same people you're trying to bring awareness too, even though disrespect isn't necessarily your intentions?

The Confederate flag isn't necessarily racist, it's treasonous, that's what it is.

Wouldn’t burning the flag be treasonous too?

No.

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."

Burning the flag is not levying war against the USA, or adhering to the US's enemies, or giving them aid or comfort.

Yea but no one whose flown the confederate flag has levied war against the United States in the past 100+years, or have adhered to the confederacy (since it doesn’t exist), or have given aid to the confederacy when it existed.

No, they haven't.

However they support treason against the US.

The guys who kneel they haven't ever waged war against the US and yet, people are telling us they're anti-US military.

Hell, you support a war in which 140,000 US military personnel died, and it's okay. You support kneeling and it's wrong, really wrong, because it's against the US military.

Tell me this isn't contradictory.

I don’t own anything depicting the confederate flag, nor does the confederacy exist...if there were rebels living within the border using the confederate flag, there’d be some sort of suppression of that rebellion happening now if it existed. We’d hear a lot more about said rebellion... and this conversation is really really...really stupid. And I feel like you should be smart enough not to try to continue, I could be wrong, but hey, people still think that deer can read road signs, so who am I right?

 

[frigidweirdo]

The Confederate flag isn't necessarily racist, it's treasonous, that's what it is.

Wouldn’t burning the flag be treasonous too?

No.

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."

Burning the flag is not levying war against the USA, or adhering to the US's enemies, or giving them aid or comfort.

Yea but no one whose flown the confederate flag has levied war against the United States in the past 100+years, or have adhered to the confederacy (since it doesn’t exist), or have given aid to the confederacy when it existed.

No, they haven't.

However they support treason against the US.

The guys who kneel they haven't ever waged war against the US and yet, people are telling us they're anti-US military.

Hell, you support a war in which 140,000 US military personnel died, and it's okay. You support kneeling and it's wrong, really wrong, because it's against the US military.

Tell me this isn't contradictory.

I don’t own anything depicting the confederate flag, nor does the confederacy exist...if there were rebels living within the border using the confederate flag, there’d be some sort of suppression of that rebellion happening now if it existed. We’d hear a lot more about said rebellion... and this conversation is really really...really stupid. And I feel like you should be smart enough not to try to continue, I could be wrong, but hey, people still think that deer can read road signs, so who am I right?

So, if you don't own anything depicting the confederate flag, then I'm not talking about you.

The issue here is that many people DO own confederate flags and DO wave them around and DO get all excited by it. And it represents treason.

But people don't have a problem with this. But do have a problem with people kneeling.

Why?