CDZ Is kneeling the most effective protest?

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by sakinago, Sep 29, 2017.

  1. sakinago
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    sakinago Gold Member

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    Both sides are not listening too each other, clearly. But let me for a second try to add some perspective to this debate, that has gotten pretty ridiculous.

    It's probably pretty fair to say that most who support the kneeling, also find the confederate flag racist. To people who fly the stars and bars, many do not fly it because of racism, they do not support slavery, they don't wish to reinstate slavery, they don't stand for what the south stood for back then. For many, it's a sign that they believe the southern way of living is better than the north, or the south is just better than the north, or they are a fan of country music and the country life. But some still find it racist, and should those who find it racist be ignored?

    Now while you're thinking about that, let's move onto the kneeling. To those who don't support the kneeling during the anthem, you have to understand what that symbol is to them. Now those who kneel for the anthem may have zero ill will or disrespect to service members, but it still means something else to the people who choose to stand and sing. To them, they have always been taught that we stand and sing this anthem in reverence to those who have fought and died for our freedoms, it's not just a song we sing BC we love our country, to them it's almost a ritual, almost like a religious ceremony, that we do to pay our respects to those who deserve it the most in our country, that we do not do enough for. So in the same way that people find the stars and bars a deeply racist symbol, those who stand for the anthem find it deeply disrespectful to those who have served and sacrificed. So by kneeling, are we really trying to effect change. It may not be done to be disrespectful to service members, but that's how people are going to interpret it, no matter what. Is disrespecting something important and almost sacred in their culture, really the best way to try to reach the very same people you're trying to bring awareness too, even though disrespect isn't necessarily your intentions?
     
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  2. iamwhatiseem
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    iamwhatiseem Gold Member

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    Or...their kneeling is just attention grabbing via fake outrage.
    Now see, just being honest...it doesn't take a 3 paragraph response to get to the truth.
     
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  3. IsaacNewton
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    IsaacNewton Gold Member

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    I would say those protesting and kneeling to elevate the protests to a National level have reached the point they don't give a shit if it offends someone. A group of 40 million people is screaming that something is terribly wrong with bad cops and people in their specific community are being outright murdered and STILL almost none of these cops are held accountable.

    If being nice and working in the system gets you nowhere you then reject the system. All the people complaining about the kneeling, which Jesus H they are peacefully just kneeling when the anthem is played, still haven't gotten it. None of them are saying 'ok these people are really pissed off about something, let's have a look at it and try to fix it'. Instead what they've been getting is 'there isn't a problem, what's the problem'.

    We have many videos of what the problem is now. For anyone to pretend they still don't know or still say 'there is no problem' is slapping millions of people in the face. And guess what, you are going to get slapped back.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017
  4. irosie91
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    irosie91 Diamond Member

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    so true-----but SAK did write an excellent essay that touched on many valid points
     
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  5. iamwhatiseem
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    iamwhatiseem Gold Member

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    I agree, I wasn't being a smart ass...just honest.
     
  6. shockedcanadian
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    shockedcanadian Gold Member

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    What I find odd is when Tim Tebow kneeled in prayer he was mercilessly attacked by the media, but kneeling for the anthem is acceptable. The symbolism of one is more offensive than the other, though the paying public disagrees.

    Of all of Trumps goals and accomplishments, his calling out and challenging of the media might be his greatest contribution in the long run. This point must chap the hide of so many who had been given a free pass.

    I will say in my opinion, kneeling for the flag in protest is not the most effective form of protest. Not by a long shot.
     
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  7. irosie91
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    irosie91 Diamond Member

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    "effective"? depends on the nature of the "effect" sought. It is damned annoying but no one bleeds
     
  8. Skull Pilot
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    Skull Pilot Platinum Member

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    As usual these "protests" are meaningless since the idiots involved don't actually DO anything.

    Just think if these millionaire players put their money where their big mouths are what they could get done to actually make a change for the causes they claim to believe in.

    But we these days think that a Tweet or wearing a stupid rubber bracelet is something more than what they actually are.
     
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  9. xotoxi
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    xotoxi Platinum Member

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    I would like to see the protests get to the next level where there is action to fix the problem:
    • Get everyone to recognize and admit that there is a problem and discuss ways to fix it.
    • Continue to improve training of officers regarding how they act in potentially dangerous situations.
    • Educate the public (especially young black men and boys) as to how to safely and respectfully interact with officers so that innocent people are not accidentally hurt.
    • Educate the police on how to respectfully interact with citizens.
    I think the majority of cases with bad outcomes is due to a perfect storm of a cop, who may enter the situation with a black man with heightened sense of security based on previous experience, interacting with a black man, who may enter the situation feeling confrontational and that they are being singled out because they are black. The confrontational demeanor and the heightened sense of security often ends up with a bad outcome.

    I don't think that the majority of the cases where there is a bad outcome is because of inherently racists cops (i.e "I'm gonna kill me a nigga tonight.").
     
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  10. danielpalos
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    danielpalos Gold Member

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    Why should the "faithful" care what "original sinners" think?
     

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