Debate Now Is it reasonable to think Trump suffers from mental illness? NPD, dementia, something else?

[Dogmaphobe]

.....and right when 320yearsofhistory disappears, up pops xelor! Must be a coincidence.

As to the subject matter, yes, I think he is a megalomaniac. I love that term so much better than npd. He has absolutely no impulse control, has a larger than life personality, and goes all medieval on people's sorry asses over trivial matters.

 

[usmbguest5318]

OP'ER want to control what someone write to the point silenting those that disagree with the OP'ER...

I don't care to silence dissenters. I just want them to put in effort comparable to that which I did to compose the OP. I welcome a strong argument that takes the counter-argument option presented in the OP and argues it strongly in an effort to show the behavior examples I provided in the OP do not indicate that it's reasonable to think Trump suffers from NPD, dementia or something resembling those maladies.

What I don't welcome is a fusillade of petty pot shots at "this" point or "those" two points, whereafter the writer, predicated on their minority of objections, concludes that my argument that does not indicate that it's reasonable to think Trump suffers from NPD, dementia or something resembling those maladies. You know as well as I that is what people here do. Petty postings of that nature bore me.

 

[OldLady]

I don't dispute that Trump has Narcissistic Personality Disorder. You did a fine job in the OP explaining the different characteristics and pointing out examples of his behavior that show those characteristics. What I do question is whether that in itself prevents him from being qualified as President.

NPD's behaviors are exhibited in a range from noticeable but just annoying, to significantly impacting relationships personal or professional. NPD does not usually affect a person's ability to perform a job (except, if severe, in ability to get along with coworkers or accept guidance from employers). It has nothing to do with intelligence. According to the article I'm linking from SHRM, 7.7% of the male population has NPD, so you probably have known individuals with the disorder. The SHRM article talks about what to do if an employee with NPD sues an employer, and basic ways to hopefully avoid hiring one (because they are a beast to get rid of or pacify if they become unhappy). It doesn't seem from the article that NPD affects performance; it is more an HR headache.
The Legal Consequences of Hiring Narcissists

While I agree it would be sensible to have Presidential candidates screened and recommendations made if mental illness might interfere with performing the job, most psychologists will tell you that a personality disorder diagnosis requires spending quite a bit of time with a client. There may be "screening tools" available as are referenced in the SHRM article, but they would be "rough" assessments and not what you would want used on a Presidential candidate.

In short, yes, Trump is a narcissist. The question I'm posing is, so what? Is he incapable of leading because of that? None of the decisions on policy that he has made are based on grandiosity or lack of empathy or his inability to accept criticism. The thing I worried most about before he took office was how he might react if the leader of a foreign country criticized him. We know how he reacts when individuals and the media do. But Trump has not overreacted on the occasions when leaders have disagreed with him. China laughed at him and mocked him, and he didn't double down and insult them more, flushing decades of diplomacy down the toilet. He is still behaving appropriately with Mexico although they've been complaining up a storm. He didn't take the bait when Iran stated its umbrage at the travel ban. Australia knew how to handle it when he couldn't handle the pressure—they called him a gentleman and moved on. Apparently, when it comes to what counts, Trump keeps his personal feelings to himself. That is a very, very good thing. He has been successful enough in business dealings to make billions of dollars, and that takes some ability to school one's impulses, so we shouldn't be surprised.

I don't believe that the narcissism Trump displays is going to seriously affect how he runs the country. There are checks and balances in place if he does, but when it comes to policy and foreign relations, although you and I may not agree with his decisions, the man has many supporters who feel the same as he. He is not behaving irrationally in his attempts to lead.

Just as an aside, I'm quite sure the man would never agree to seeing a psychologist for the purposes of an assessment. Folks with NPD are famous for resisting counseling. They have NOTHING wrong with them! It's just how they are. We can laugh at him, roll our eyes at him, etc., but I don't see anything yet that concerns me enough to make a big issue out of it. If you want to encourage people to consider a comprehensive mental health screening for Presidential candidates, go for it, but imo, this ship has sailed and we just need to hang on to the railing and keep out of the way of the boom.

Hope that's good enough for ya.

 

[OldLady]

I like cheese.

Is that your example of dementia, Larsky?

 

[usmbguest5318]

TY for your comments.

What I do question is whether that in itself prevents him from being qualified as President.

The article you linked contains the following remarks. Each of them, were they to be said of an exec striving to reach the C-level, would be a career limiting trait that, if manifest in the course of doing their jobs, would prevent them from getting such a role, at least in a Fortune 500 company.

Article quotes:

Many of these people are employed, and they bring morale down as their egos swell.

Do we want a POTUS who impairs morale among his coworkers who aren't sycophants or who have reached the limit of their ability to be so?

Their behavior is often self-defeating as well, as they can lose sight of the big picture of how their actions could affect their long-term reputation or career.

Seeing as there's "nowhere up" for a POTUS to go, I should think this behavior must sooner or later lead to recklessness.

Unfortunately, counseling from HR or supervisors is unlikely to help in most cases. Typically, the employee’s intransigent and inflexible attitude will eventually lead to termination of employment.

How does an intransigent President ever, short of getting lucky, make good decisions?

Due to their skewed judgment, people with NPD will often fail to recognize when a case has questionable merit and ignore the cost of litigation.

How much time has the man spent advancing the "fake news" case? Is that not attempting to discredit the Fourth Estate, save for the outlets that don't directly challenge him, not detrimental to democracy itself? And that's what a President is doing, presumably spurred to do so by his NPD?​

 

[usmbguest5318]

Hope that's good enough for ya.

It definitely is. It's substantive and without resorting to partisanship or emotionality, introduces a relevant consideration based on the line of argument presented in the OP. In that regard it positively and maturely advances the discussion. It's precisely the nature of response I seek.

 

[WheelieAddict]

Trump's father had dementia. Doesn't mean he has it yet or will at all though.

A president with dementia is not unprecedented, Reagan was much of his presidency.

 

[GaryDog]

Absolutely. His own father suffered from Alzheimer's and trump is at the age where onset of Alzheimer's is common. He routinely contradicts himself, lacks situational awareness, has clear delusions that defy reality, and often seems angry/confused.

We really should've benefited from a more concerted medical report on trump's fitness for office. He's obese, eats horribly, doesn't exercise (all irrefutable facts that even Trump doesn't dispute) and he seems to suffer from a lot of anger and anxiety which can't be healthy from a hormonal standpoint. The fact that so many around him seem to affirm his own paranoid delusions is also not healthy and will delay a proper diagnosis. Sad!

 

[OldLady]

TY for your comments.

What I do question is whether that in itself prevents him from being qualified as President.

The article you linked contains the following remarks. Each of them, were they to be said of an exec striving to reach the C-level, would be a career limiting trait that, if manifest in the course of doing their jobs, would prevent them from getting such a role, at least in a Fortune 500 company.

Article quotes:

Many of these people are employed, and they bring morale down as their egos swell.

Do we want a POTUS who impairs morale among his coworkers who aren't sycophants or who have reached the limit of their ability to be so?

Their behavior is often self-defeating as well, as they can lose sight of the big picture of how their actions could affect their long-term reputation or career.

Seeing as there's "nowhere up" for a POTUS to go, I should think this behavior must sooner or later lead to recklessness.

Unfortunately, counseling from HR or supervisors is unlikely to help in most cases. Typically, the employee’s intransigent and inflexible attitude will eventually lead to termination of employment.

How does an intransigent President ever, short of getting lucky, make good decisions?

Due to their skewed judgment, people with NPD will often fail to recognize when a case has questionable merit and ignore the cost of litigation.

How much time has the man spent advancing the "fake news" case? Is that not attempting to discredit the Fourth Estate, save for the outlets that don't directly challenge him, not detrimental to democracy itself? And that's what a President is doing, presumably spurred to do so by his NPD?​

Article quotes:

Many of these people are employed, and they bring morale down as their egos swell.

Do we want a POTUS who impairs morale among his coworkers who aren't sycophants or who have reached the limit of their ability to be so?

Trump has built and run a complex business organization that has been highly successful and is currently being run by his two adult sons. Morale does not seem to have been a huge issue for them, or for Norma Foerderer, his top aide for 26 years.

Norma Foerderer, Donald Trump’s top aide for 26 years until she retired in 2006, told me there are two Donalds: the “outrageous” one portrayed on television and the real one only insiders know.

Foerderer began as Trump’s secretary when Donald had only seven other employees. Over the years, he made her a vice president and put her in charge of almost everything from public relations and hiring and firing administrative personnel to negotiating book deals and advertising contracts.
Kessler: Don't Underestimate Donald Trump for President

Their behavior is often self-defeating as well, as they can lose sight of the big picture of how their actions could affect their long-term reputation or career.

Seeing as there's "nowhere up" for a POTUS to go, I should think this behavior must sooner or later lead to recklessness.

I'm not sure why you think his behavior must lead to recklessness. Let us see if Trump loses sight of the "big picture." So far, everything he has done has been to institute policies he promised voters in the campaign.

How much time has the man spent advancing the "fake news" case? Is that not attempting to discredit the Fourth Estate, save for the outlets that don't directly challenge him, not detrimental to democracy itself? And that's what a President is doing, presumably spurred to do so by his NPD?

The fake news case is troubling to me, too; not so much because of what HAS happened as what MIGHT happen. However, it isn't Trump as much as the American public that concerns me for buying it. The media is keeping up with Trump's slams, and for every slight, they are giving it back to him in spades, discussing it on all the "shows" and writing endless editorials. PolitiFact and the other fact checking organizations have probably never been busier. His reaction to the media is his NPD clearly in action. If it remains an exercise of blowhard silliness that is mainly being ignored by everyone with a brain, there is no foul.
One thing about NPD, in its milder, nuisance form, is that a lot of what gets said needs to be ignored. If there is actual ACTION taken by the President to curtail the press, he's going to get his ass handed to him, and no mistake.

Am I happy this guy is our President? No. Is he incompetent due to his personality structure? I don't see it, yet.

 

[ChrisL]

He doesn't exhibit signs of dementia. Hillary showed more signs of dementia, IMO, or more likely alcoholism.

 

[candycorn]

Thread Debate Topic/Assertions:
In this thread, posters present arguments for one of the two following positions:

• Donald Trump appears to have NPD, dementia or another mental disorder/shortcoming (If not dementia or NPD, identify the disorder/shortcoming.).
  
• Donald Trump does not appear to have NPD, dementia or any other mental shortcoming.

Thread Discussion/Posting Rules:
As this is the SDF, it goes without saying that Zone 2 Rules are in effect, so if you cannot follow those rules and the following ones, don't post.

1. You must either expound upon the argument presented in the OP or you must present a fully developed argument (nor a claim that's not supported with an argument) of your own (or expound upon someone else's fully developed argument) to refute the following assertion:
   • Donald Trump does not appear to have NPD, dementia or any other mental shortcoming.
2. Arguments made for the OP's assertion or for the counter assertion noted above must be presented only with regard to the nature and extent to which they apply to Donald Trump and the extent to which his behaviors and comments do or do not indicate there is a reasonable chance he has NPD. The behaviors and words of other individuals vis a vis whether they exhibit signs of NPD are not eligible for introduction in this thread. This thread is not about how anyone else behaves or whether anyone else seems to suffer from NPD. Those people are not the current President of the United States.
   
3. You may not make brief unsubstantiated assertions. You must credible references that literally and contextually support your claims. That means if someone checks your references, they must be found to have taken things out of context, where appropriate have documented methodologies and you can only cite specific quotes Trump made and/or expert opinion. You cannot cite editorial opinion offered by non-mental health professionals.
   

I found the OP incredibly long. It reminds me of the first rule of writing…know your audience. While you should be applauded for your effort, do you really think it’s appropriate for this forum? Don’t get me wrong, I have the same problem. I have trouble turning in work I know could be better; I never subscribed to the “good plan today beats a great plan tomorrow” thinking.

Anyway, I agree with most of it. It’s not only the erroneous statements that are shown to be false then repeated again at a higher volume to supposedly re-enforce the “truth”; it’s the sheer idiocy of the argument to start with. Like Obama can now order someone to “leak” anything… If he wanted the CIA to screw over the Trump campaign; do you think it would really stop at wiretaps? That 757 (about 30 years old) would be at the bottom of the ocean. Obama (like with everything else) would get blamed for it anyway so why not do it????

I tried to give the joke of a man in office a chance to be serious. It turns out that the joke is just not funny anymore.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Thread Debate Topic/Assertions:
In this thread, posters present arguments for one of the two following positions:

• Donald Trump appears to have NPD, dementia or another mental disorder/shortcoming (If not dementia or NPD, identify the disorder/shortcoming.).
  
• Donald Trump does not appear to have NPD, dementia or any other mental shortcoming.

Thread Discussion/Posting Rules:
As this is the SDF, it goes without saying that Zone 2 Rules are in effect, so if you cannot follow those rules and the following ones, don't post.

1. You must either expound upon the argument presented in the OP or you must present a fully developed argument (nor a claim that's not supported with an argument) of your own (or expound upon someone else's fully developed argument) to refute the following assertion:
   • Donald Trump does not appear to have NPD, dementia or any other mental shortcoming.
2. Arguments made for the OP's assertion or for the counter assertion noted above must be presented only with regard to the nature and extent to which they apply to Donald Trump and the extent to which his behaviors and comments do or do not indicate there is a reasonable chance he has NPD. The behaviors and words of other individuals vis a vis whether they exhibit signs of NPD are not eligible for introduction in this thread. This thread is not about how anyone else behaves or whether anyone else seems to suffer from NPD. Those people are not the current President of the United States.
   
3. You may not make brief unsubstantiated assertions. You must credible references that literally and contextually support your claims. That means if someone checks your references, they must be found to have taken things out of context, where appropriate have documented methodologies and you can only cite specific quotes Trump made and/or expert opinion. You cannot cite editorial opinion offered by non-mental health professionals.

I found the OP incredibly long. It reminds me of the first rule of writing…know your audience. While you should be applauded for your effort, do you really think it’s appropriate for this forum? Don’t get me wrong, I have the same problem. I have trouble turning in work I know could be better; I never subscribed to the “good plan today beats a great plan tomorrow” thinking.

Anyway, I agree with most of it. It’s not only the erroneous statements that are shown to be false then repeated again at a higher volume to supposedly re-enforce the “truth”; it’s the sheer idiocy of the argument to start with. Like Obama can now order someone to “leak” anything… If he wanted the CIA to screw over the Trump campaign; do you think it would really stop at wiretaps? That 757 (about 30 years old) would be at the bottom of the ocean. Obama (like with everything else) would get blamed for it anyway so why not do it????

I tried to give the joke of a man in office a chance to be serious. It turns out that the joke is just not funny anymore.

While you should be applauded for your effort, do you really think it’s appropriate for this forum?

Yes. If I didn't, I wouldn't have posted it.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

EXCELLENT OP

But

I'm not trained in the field of psychiatry so all I've got is my own observations which have left me with a pile of questions about him.

First and foremost, why does he lie? Almost every time he speaks, he lies. Little tiny lies, great big lies, constant lies.

Can he tell the difference between truth and lies? Why is he so fast to tell new lies that contradict his previous lies? Why does he deny he said something even though he knows there is incontrovertible proof to the contrary?

Is that a sign or proof of mental illness? Instability?I don't know what to call it except dangerous. He's very very dangerous.

 

[OldLady]

EXCELLENT OP

But

I'm not trained in the field of psychiatry so all I've got is my own observations which have left me with a pile of questions about him.

First and foremost, why does he lie? Almost every time he speaks, he lies. Little tiny lies, great big lies, constant lies.

Can he tell the difference between truth and lies? Why is he so fast to tell new lies that contradict his previous lies? Why does he deny he said something even though he knows there is incontrovertible proof to the contrary?

Is that a sign or proof of mental illness? Instability?I don't know what to call it except dangerous. He's very very dangerous.

I always took the lies, which are usually a form of hyperbole with a kernel of truth in them somewhere, as part of his salesman skills. He is nothing if not an excellent salesman. Have you ever met a used car salesman you could trust? I rest my case.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

EXCELLENT OP

But

I'm not trained in the field of psychiatry so all I've got is my own observations which have left me with a pile of questions about him.

First and foremost, why does he lie? Almost every time he speaks, he lies. Little tiny lies, great big lies, constant lies.

Can he tell the difference between truth and lies? Why is he so fast to tell new lies that contradict his previous lies? Why does he deny he said something even though he knows there is incontrovertible proof to the contrary?

Is that a sign or proof of mental illness? Instability?I don't know what to call it except dangerous. He's very very dangerous.

I always took the lies, which are usually a form of hyperbole with a kernel of truth in them somewhere, as part of his salesman skills. He is nothing if not an excellent salesman. Have you ever met a used car salesman you could trust? I rest my case.

And he does use that used-car-salesman's lie -

"Believe me".

Yes, I agree that's certainly a factor but I think there's more to it.

For some reason, he believes he can lie and then lie about the lies. And apparently, he's right. Every single voter knew, before they voted, that he lied all the way through the campaign as well as long before - and many still voted for him and AGAINST their own best interests, the best interests of their family and of their own country.

 

[usmbguest5318]

EXCELLENT OP

Thank you.

 

[usmbguest5318]

you should be applauded for your effort

Thank you.

 

[HaShev]

This debate was on Waters World and the Psychologist used for this regurgetated demonization tactic (because the Russian collusion tactic failed and has run it's course), was problematic for the Dems.
1) Waters proved the Psychiatrist did not according to Psychology own textual requirement standards examine Trump to make his claims.
2) Waters proved the Psychologist was delusional & with delusions of grandeur.
3)The Psychiatrist was describing Hillary to a tee.-oops
4)The Psychiatrists reasoning would have called every Dem voter and Polititian and media bias insane for believing the Russian Collusion conspiracy rants and for lying.
5)Waters proved this psychiatrist was psychotic for his Hitler comparisons reasonings and the insensitivity of it is a whole other issue regarding how low the demonization can and will sink.
=sick people.

 

[Kat]

I thought Candy Corn was/is a he??

 

[whirlingmerc]

Thread Debate Topic/Assertions:
In this thread, posters present arguments for one of the two following positions:

• Donald Trump appears to have NPD, dementia or another mental disorder/shortcoming (If not dementia or NPD, identify the disorder/shortcoming.).
  
• Donald Trump does not appear to have NPD, dementia or any other mental shortcoming.

Thread Discussion/Posting Rules:
As this is the SDF, it goes without saying that Zone 2 Rules are in effect, so if you cannot follow those rules and the following ones, don't post.

1. You must either expound upon the argument presented in the OP or you must present a fully developed argument (nor a claim that's not supported with an argument) of your own (or expound upon someone else's fully developed argument) to refute the following assertion:
   • Donald Trump does not appear to have NPD, dementia or any other mental shortcoming.
2. Arguments made for the OP's assertion or for the counter assertion noted above must be presented only with regard to the nature and extent to which they apply to Donald Trump and the extent to which his behaviors and comments do or do not indicate there is a reasonable chance he has NPD. The behaviors and words of other individuals vis a vis whether they exhibit signs of NPD are not eligible for introduction in this thread. This thread is not about how anyone else behaves or whether anyone else seems to suffer from NPD. Those people are not the current President of the United States.
   
3. You may not make brief unsubstantiated assertions. You must credible references that literally and contextually support your claims. That means if someone checks your references, they must be found to have taken things out of context, where appropriate have documented methodologies and you can only cite specific quotes Trump made and/or expert opinion. You cannot cite editorial opinion offered by non-mental health professionals.
   
   As you might glean, this thread is not for people who just want to toss out their or another's partisan and half-baked opinion and be done. It is a thread for people who have a point of view and who've done the research to back it up with solid evidence -- inductive or deductive. It's a thread for people who have something of substance to say and are willing to take the time to present strong cases for them. You don't necessarily have to agree with the central assertion you choose to defend. You just need to put together a strong essay in support of it. You are free to make brief and/or clarifying comments in support of the counter-argument after you've presented your well developed argumentative essay.

___________________________________________________________________________________

I will argue for the following:

• Donald Trump appears to have NPD, dementia or another mental disorder/shortcoming (If not dementia or NPD, identify the disorder/shortcoming.).

Introduction
Donald Trump says and does all sorts of things that are highly irrational. The man denies or continues(-ed) to question things that were handily shown to be so so. He's attested to things that are clearly shown not to be so. I'm not talking about minor errors or missteps that anyone might make once, be corrected and not make again. I'm not going to give him grief over things like that. I'm talking about things that only people who are losing their cognitive faculties or who have a mental disorder do.

Let me be clear also. This isn't about whether he's smart or not. Having Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD), which is a mental/personality disorder, and being intelligent or not aren't the same things. One can be quite bright and still have NPD.

What is NPD and why is it a problem for a president to have it?
But what is a personality disorder, NPD specifically? It's not being what a layman might call "straight-jacket" crazy, not able to function or what we'd call incompetent. It, NPD in particular, is a pattern of deviant or abnormal behavior that the person doesn’t change, even though it causes emotional upsets and trouble with other people at work and in personal relationships. It is not limited to episodes of mental illness, and it is not caused by drug or alcohol use, head injury, or illness. There are about a dozen different behavior patterns classified as personality disorders by DSM. All the personality disorders show up as deviations from normal in one or more of the following:

• Cognition (i.e. perception, thinking, and interpretation of oneself, other people, and events);
• Affectivity (i.e. emotional responses);
• Interpersonal functions; and
• Impulsivity.

People with NPD won’t (or can’t) change their behavior even when it causes problems at work, when other people complain about the way they act, or when their behavior causes a lot of emotional distress to others (or themselves). Narcissists never admit to being distressed by their own behavior -- they always blame other people for any problems.

Narcissists are a danger to others because they are in complete denial of reality and they lack empathy. One of the key presenting traits of narcissists is their utter incapability to empathize, which can manifest itself in a variety of ways:

• Ignoring requests to cease behavior (such as cheating and lying).
• Name calling, criticizing, belittling, mean “jokes”, jabs and put downs (verbal abuse).
• Arguments surrounding the same issues over and over.
• Turning around a partner’s concerns to blame him/her and block the conversation.
• No closure - no apologies, no accountability, no consequences, no change.
• Narcissists are capable of inflicting physical and psychological harm on others and are unmoved by the plight of those they hurt.

To get more details about how and why NPD can result in leaders not governing well (I'm not talking about just enacting policies you or I don't like), here are some additional references:

• The Dark Triad of personality: Narcissism, Machiavellianism, and psychopathy
  
• Narcissism and Comparative Self-Enhancement Strategies
  
• What Is Narcissistic Personality Disorder? Lay Theories of Narcissism
  
• Interpersonal Analysis of Grandiose and Vulnerable Narcissism
  
• An Analysis of the Self: A Systematic Approach to the Psychoanalytic Treatment of Narcissistic Personality Disorder -- From reading the other documents, it's not clear to me that the disorder is treatable, but these authors seem to think it is.
  
• Narcissism and Childhood Recollections: A Quantitative Test of Psychoanalytic Predictions

The Case for Trump Having Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD)
First of all, several experts -- psychiatrists and psychologists -- have attested to their conviction that Trump exhibits the signs of NPD. They haven't personally examined him, so they can't completely conclude on their attestation. That said, that they have in in such great numbers made the claim and stipulated that Trump be examined formally is telling. Here's their statement:

We are writing to express our grave concern regarding the mental stability of our President-Elect. Professional standards do not permit us to venture a diagnosis for a public figure whom we have not evaluated personally. Nevertheless, his widely reported symptoms of mental instability — including grandiosity, impulsivity, hypersensitivity to slights or criticism, and an apparent inability to distinguish between fantasy and reality — lead us to question his fitness for the immense responsibilities of the office. We strongly recommend that, in preparation for assuming these responsibilities, he receive a full medical and neuropsychiatric evaluation by an impartial team of investigators.
​

The statement was made by:

• Judith Herman, M.D.
  Professor of Psychiatry, Harvard Medical School
• Nanette Gartrell, M.D.
  Associate Clinical Professor of Psychiatry, University of California, San Francisco (1988-2011)
  Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Harvard Medical School (1983-87)
• Dee Mosbacher, M.D., Ph.D.
  Assistant Clinical Professor Department of Community Health Systems, University of California, San Francisco (2005-2013)

What's interesting is that they've gone against the guidance of the APA that dissuades mental health professionals from publicly sharing their opinions absent actually conducting an examination. Professionals don't generally risk their professional credentials -- credentials that allow them to earn a decent salary -- just to make a political point. They still have to work, and they can't without remaining credentialed, unless they think they can become the next Dr. Phil.

That's a strange restriction, yet ironically and hypocritically, given all their haranguing about free speech and whatnot, it's one Trump supporters adopt.

You wouldn't expect cardiologists to keep mum about symptoms, causes and/or manifestations of broken bones, heart disease or cancer, would you? Attorneys, accountants, economists, engineers, scientists, and scores of other professionals offer limited opinions about matters pertinent to their disciplines. Even plumbers and auto mechanics and and will make educated predictions about what might be the cause of behaviors your car or toilet exhibits. The statements coming from mental health professionals are no different. They are experts on mental health remarking upon what they see.

The doctors noted above aren't the only mental health professionals, to say nothing of their all being highly regarded ones -- we're not talking armchair psychologists -- who've expressed concerned.

May 2016

​

31-Jan-2017

​

27-Jan-2017 -- Temperament Tantrum: Some say President Donald Trump's personality isn't just flawed, it's dangerous.
John D. Gartner, a practicing psychotherapist who taught psychiatric residents at Johns Hopkins University Medical School, minces as few words as the president in his professional assessment of Trump.

"Donald Trump is dangerously mentally ill and temperamentally incapable of being president," says Gartner, author of "In Search of Bill Clinton: A Psychological Biography." Trump, Gartner says, has "malignant narcissism," which is different from narcissistic personality disorder and which is incurable.

Gartner acknowledges that he has not personally examined Trump, but says it's obvious from Trump's behavior that he meets the diagnostic criteria for the disorder, which include anti-social behavior, sadism, aggressiveness, paranoia and grandiosity. Trump's personality disorder (which includes hypomania) is also displayed through a lack of impulse control and empathy, and "a feeling that people ... don't recognize their greatness.

"We've seen enough public behavior by Donald Trump now that we can make this diagnosis indisputably," says Gartner. His comments run afoul of the so-called Goldwater Rule, the informal term for part of the ethics code of the American Psychiatric Association saying it is wrong to provide a professional opinion of a public figure without examining that person and gaining consent to discuss the evaluation. But Gartner says the Trump case warrants breaking that ethical code.

A Quinnipiac University poll earlier this month, for example, showed that Trump's popularity had dropped, unusually, during the transition, with the president losing ground on matters such as his perceived intelligence, honesty and leadership. In November, 57 percent said Trump is not "level-headed;" the poll by the Connecticut school in January had the not-level-headed number at 62 percent. Further, by a two-to-one margin, Americans said Trump needs to close his Twitter account, which has served as the president's primary way of rallying his base.

"It worked to his advantage but when people are saying they're fed up with it, maybe it's starting to be a minus," says Tim Malloy, assistant director of the poll.

Some of the hypomanic characteristics Gartner says Trump also possesses are also, paradoxically, the very qualities that "made America great," the psychotherapist says. The creativity, confidence and out-of-the-box thinking, is what has driven the nation's most successful entrepreneurs, says Gartner, who has also authored the book "The Hypomanic Edge: The Link Between (A Little) Craziness and (A Lot of) Success in America."
​

NPD is manifest by consistently displaying any five of eight behaviors. Those behaviors are presented below as first "bullet level" items, and examples of those behaviors are shown at lower levels.

• Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
  • Trump: "I alone can fix it."
    
    
    
    
  • Claimed to know Putin, but he did not then nor does he now. In fact, his attestations over time go from knowing Putin "very well" to not knowing "who Putin is."
    • 2015 Radio Interview: (Hear the interview here.)
      Michael Savage: "Have you ever met Vladimir Putin?"
      Trump: "Yes."
    • Republican Debate: "I got to know him very well because we were both on 60 Minutes."
      • False: Here's the Deal With That Putin '60 Minutes' Episode Trump Mentioned
    • July 2016: "I never met Putin. I don't know who Putin is."
      
  • His entire business career appears focused on creating the impression that this is one successful, brilliant, power guy. But he’s actually been a pretty mediocre businessman according to most yardsticks. (See also: Donald Trump’s business failings, explained)
  • "Everything" he says he's done or will do is "fantastic," "great," "the biggest," "the best ever," he knows more than anyone else, etc. Everything with him is presented as a superlative.
    • “40 Wall Street… was the tallest, and then, when they built the World Trade Center, it became known as the second-tallest. And now it’s the tallest.”
    • Trump: "Nobody has more respect for women than I do." (See also: (Almost) Every Sexist Thing Donald Trump Has Said | Care2 Causes)
    • Trump: “I have the best temperament or certainly one of the best temperaments of anybody that’s ever run for the office of president. Ever.”
      • Not remotely likely.
        • Does Donald J. Trump Have the Temperament to Be President?
      • 
        
    • Trump: “Look, I know more about renewables than any human being on earth.”
    • Trump: “I’m the best thing that’s ever happened to the Secret Service.”
    • Trump: “I will be the greatest jobs president God ever created.”
      • Not if he implements his proposed plans from the campaign.
        • Donald Trump's Tax Plan Could Cost the U.S. 11 Million Jobs
        • The Macroeconomic Consequences of Mr. Trump’s Economic Policies
    • Trump: “I write a book called The Art of the Deal, the #1 selling business book of all time.”
    • Trump: “Peace all over the world would be the best deal. And I think I would know how to do that better than anybody else.”
    • Trump: "I know more about Cory [Booker] than he knows about himself.”
    • Trump: “40 Wall Street… was the tallest, and then, when they built the World Trade Center, it became known as the second-tallest. And now it’s the tallest.”
      • That boast wasn't even accurate. The building at 70 Pine was taller. (See also: 70 Pine - The Skyscraper Center and The Trump Building - The Skyscraper Center)
    • Trump: "Nobody reads the Bible more than me.”
      • Move over, pastors – your religious devotion is secondary to that of Trump, who most definitely was not trying to pander to Evangelical voters with this proclamation. Except that, when pressed, Trump could not name his favorite Bible verse or state a preference between the Old and New Testament, so he must not be giving the Bible a close read.
      • 'Two Corinthians': Donald Trump bungles biblical reference during speech at Christian school
    • Trump: “I know more about foreign policy than anybody running.”
      • Not remotely likely.
        • Donald Trump's 11 worst foreign policy gaffes
        • Ignored the "one China" protocol
      • Trump: "Of all the fellow celebrities you've met, which do you consider to be the most humble?" ME!"
    • Trump: "I think nobody knows more about taxes than I do, maybe in the history of the world. Nobody knows more about taxes."
    • Trump: "I know words; I have the best words"
      • Linguists differ. They say he speaks like an 11 year-old.
• Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love.
  • Trump: "We had a massive landslide victory, as you know, in the Electoral College." Thinks he won the electoral college by a landslide. He won it. He didn't win by a landslide. 56% does not a landslide make, much less a "massive" one as he claimed on Fox with Chris Wallace.
    
    Donald Trump Fox News Sunday FULL Interview 12/11/16
    
  • His entire business career appears focused on creating the impression that this is one successful, brilliant, power guy. But he’s actually been a pretty mediocre businessman according to most yardsticks. (See also: Donald Trump’s business failings, explained)
  • Trump:
    • "You know, it really doesn’t matter what (the media) write as long as you’ve got a young and beautiful piece of ass."
    • "Wonderful looking while on the ice but up close and personal, she could only be described as attractive if you like a woman with a bad complexion who is built like a linebacker"
  • Trump: "I know more about ISIS than the generals."
• Believes that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with other special or high-status people (or institutions)
  • Note: In the following video, it's not his affirmations of his being smart that I'm using as evidence of anything. I don't take exception with people saying they are smart or talented if they are, and I realize Trump is not profoundly dumb in a mental capacity sense (IQ below 100 or something of that nature.) As I noted at the outset of this post, and showed by reference to scholarly publications, NPD and intellect aren't connected. It's the eugenics thing that shows he thinks he's special.
    
    https://youtube/3Yh0jAxOxGE
• Requires excessive admiration
  • When he was supposed to be eulogizing his father, he spoke more about himself than his father and described his father's greatest achievement as raising Donald. "Where others spoke of their memories of Fred Trump, [Donald] spoke of Fred Trump’s endorsement."
  • "All of the women on The Apprentice flirted with me – consciously or unconsciously. That’s to be expected."
  • Roxanne Brewer Lane (Trump had an affair with her) - 1990 - 1991: "He did ask me, on a scale of 1 to 10, what I thought about Marla [Maples]…He asked me the same about Ivana."
• Has a sense of entitlement
  • Stated that he could grab women by the p*ssy.
  • Walks into women's dressing rooms
  • Cornered a reporter and said to her, "You know we’re going to have an affair, don’t you?...We’re going to have an affair, I’m telling you.
  • "All of the women on The Apprentice flirted with me – consciously or unconsciously. That’s to be expected."
    
  • "One of my ex-wives once said to me, ‘You have to work at a marriage.’ And I said, ‘That’s the most ridiculous thing.’”
• Is exploitative
  • After 9/11, Donald Trump — not a “small business” — took advantage of $150,000 in government funds to help small businesses.
    
  • "I’ll sue her because it would be fun. I look forward to suing Rosie. ‘I’m gonna sue her and I look forward to it."
• Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
  • When he was supposed to be eulogizing his father, he spoke more about himself than his father and described his father's greatest achievement as raising Donald. "Where others spoke of their memories of Fred Trump, [Donald] spoke of Fred Trump’s endorsement."
    
  • Publicly attacked the parents of of a fallen soldier, people of who the only reason anyone even knows who they are is because their son died in action serving in the U.S. armed forces.
  • Belittled POWs for being captured.
  • Bragged about sexually assaulting women and getting away with it. (See also: 10 U.S. Code § 920 - Art. 120. Rape and sexual assault generally)
  • "I think that putting a wife to work is a very dangerous thing. Unfortunately, after they're a star, the fun is over for me."
  • Just minutes after the WTC fell, Trump says this: “40 Wall Street… was the tallest, and then, when they built the World Trade Center, it became known as the second-tallest. And now it’s the tallest.”
  • Cited "an eye for an eye" as his favorite Bible passage.
• Is envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her.
  • "The old rich may look down their noses at me, but I think they kiss my ass."
• Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes.
  
  • President Donald Trump warned in a phone call with his Mexican counterpart that he was ready to send U.S. troops to stop "bad hombres down there" unless the Mexican military does more to control them, according to an excerpt of a transcript of the conversation obtained by The Associated Press.
  • "Only I can fix it." (See above)
  • "When I come home and dinner's not ready, I go through the roof."
  • "I think that putting a wife to work is a very dangerous thing. Unfortunately, after they're a star, the fun is over for me."
  • "I know more about Cory [Booker] than he knows about himself.”
  • [See also the early discussion about superlatives. There's plenty of arrogance in there.
  • "Of all the fellow celebrities you've met, which do you consider to be the most humble?" ME!"

That Trump exhibits the signs of NPD is quite clear. What's important is what to do about it, both now and with regard to Trump as well as going forward and regarding future Presidents. The first thing that needs to be done to put the matter to bed to have Trump undergo a legitimate evaluation by independent examiners. Maybe he doesn't have NPD, but it sure looks like it. If it turns out he does have NPD, the what is the country to do about it? Do we just ignore it? Do we implore Congress to apply the 25th Amendment? If the man's ill, the country needs to do something besides just let him run the nation with his disorder running at full tilt.

Looking at this matter going forward, I think it's clear we need an amendment or general law that requires Presidents-Elect or candidates and sitting Presidents to undergo annual mental evaluations, just as they get annual physicals, and have the results be disclosed to the public. Voters have a right to know the president is in good physical and mental health. (Looking at photos of Trump's lardass, it's not even certain the man is in good physical health.)

Both Trump and Hillary had substantial but differing flaws... the wheels came off the bus years ago when liberals started accepting their candidates can lie and its somehow savvy to be dishonest but fair is fair problems with both sides