Is it paranoia if they really are listening?

[Foxfyre]

A family member once worked for a scientific prototype engineering firm where they devised surveillance devices for use primarily for law enforcement and security. That was the first time I learned that I was probably being watched in any public place. The eyes of mannikens in department stores can be cameras, tiny microphones can be placed anywhere to record what customers are saying about the merchandise, etc. and of course we know security cameras are surveilling us almost everywhere.

But it appears that public places also now include our homes. A current WSJ piece discusses the many devices that now utilize voice commands--Alexa, our smart phones, remotes on our smart TVs, watches, numerous appliances etc. And how many--not all but many--are transmitting what they see and/or hear for other uses?

. . .Consider the voice-controlled trash can from Simplehuman. Say “Open can” and it opens—and then closes on its own once the user walks away. That’s it.

While it’s easy to make fun of a high-tech trash can, especially one that costs $200, this one tackles one of the biggest concerns that comes with smart assistants: the fact that they record what we tell them and send it back to their parent companies.

Simplehuman’s trash can doesn’t do this, says Guy Cohen, the company’s director of electronics engineering. That’s because the latest microphones and their attached microprocessors process human speech in the gadget itself, without connecting to the cloud. . .​

All Ears: Always-On Listening Devices Could Soon Be Everywhere

But the point is, they could.

So what do you think? Is this getting out of hand? Could we unwittingly be transmitting everything we do and say to somebody(ies) who are listening and/or even watching? Our private conversations? Our family fights? Making love? Obviously the technology exists.

More importantly, does it bother you? And should it be regulated in any way?

P.S. The poll is set so that you can change your answer if you rethink it after this discussion.

 

[flacaltenn]

A family member once worked for a scientific prototype engineering firm where they devised surveillance devices for use primarily for law enforcement and security. That was the first time I learned that I was probably being watched in any public place. The eyes of mannikens in department stores can be cameras, tiny microphones can be placed anywhere to record what customers are saying about the merchandise, etc. and of course we know security cameras are surveilling us almost everywhere.

But it appears that public places also now include our homes. A current WSJ piece discusses the many devices that now utilize voice commands--Alexa, our smart phones, remotes on our smart TVs, watches, numerous appliances etc. And how many--not all but many--are transmitting what they see and/or hear for other uses?

. . .Consider the voice-controlled trash can from Simplehuman. Say “Open can” and it opens—and then closes on its own once the user walks away. That’s it.

While it’s easy to make fun of a high-tech trash can, especially one that costs $200, this one tackles one of the biggest concerns that comes with smart assistants: the fact that they record what we tell them and send it back to their parent companies.

Simplehuman’s trash can doesn’t do this, says Guy Cohen, the company’s director of electronics engineering. That’s because the latest microphones and their attached microprocessors process human speech in the gadget itself, without connecting to the cloud. . .​

All Ears: Always-On Listening Devices Could Soon Be Everywhere

But the point is, they could.

So what do you think? Is this getting out of hand? Could we unwittingly be transmitting everything we do and say to somebody(ies) who are listening and/or even watching? Our private conversations? Our family fights? Making love? Obviously the technology exists.

More importantly, does it bother you? And should it be regulated in any way?

P.S. The poll is set so that you can change your answer if you rethink it after this discussion.

I think any legislative action should be limited to package warnings about the recording capabilities and disclosures on whether any recorded/live stream data goes BACK over a network to the company or 3rd parties. Would be GOOD if the companies volunteered to do this. But they won't. Because they NEED that data to do Art. Intelligence training on their NEXT more powerful products.

AND - they may be data-mining you as well for profit..

You should just assume in public places or private establishments that you are being surveilled. But IMO -- you should NEVER bring this tech into home or office willingly. Includes Alexa and Siri and your smart TV. UNLESS you invest the time to know how to defeat/disable the negative consequences.

I can't imagine allowing Google to monitor EVERY ROOM in your house. But that's where it's going.

 

[JakeStarkey]

This is a great OP.

I am looking forward to other comments.

 

[Foxfyre]

A family member once worked for a scientific prototype engineering firm where they devised surveillance devices for use primarily for law enforcement and security. That was the first time I learned that I was probably being watched in any public place. The eyes of mannikens in department stores can be cameras, tiny microphones can be placed anywhere to record what customers are saying about the merchandise, etc. and of course we know security cameras are surveilling us almost everywhere.

But it appears that public places also now include our homes. A current WSJ piece discusses the many devices that now utilize voice commands--Alexa, our smart phones, remotes on our smart TVs, watches, numerous appliances etc. And how many--not all but many--are transmitting what they see and/or hear for other uses?

. . .Consider the voice-controlled trash can from Simplehuman. Say “Open can” and it opens—and then closes on its own once the user walks away. That’s it.

While it’s easy to make fun of a high-tech trash can, especially one that costs $200, this one tackles one of the biggest concerns that comes with smart assistants: the fact that they record what we tell them and send it back to their parent companies.

Simplehuman’s trash can doesn’t do this, says Guy Cohen, the company’s director of electronics engineering. That’s because the latest microphones and their attached microprocessors process human speech in the gadget itself, without connecting to the cloud. . .​

All Ears: Always-On Listening Devices Could Soon Be Everywhere

But the point is, they could.

So what do you think? Is this getting out of hand? Could we unwittingly be transmitting everything we do and say to somebody(ies) who are listening and/or even watching? Our private conversations? Our family fights? Making love? Obviously the technology exists.

More importantly, does it bother you? And should it be regulated in any way?

P.S. The poll is set so that you can change your answer if you rethink it after this discussion.

I think any legislative action should be limited to package warnings about the recording capabilities and disclosures on whether any recorded/live stream data goes BACK over a network to the company or 3rd parties. Would be GOOD if the companies volunteered to do this. But they won't. Because they NEED that data to do Art. Intelligence training on their NEXT more powerful products.

AND - they may be data-mining you as well for profit..

You should just assume in public places or private establishments that you are being surveilled. But IMO -- you should NEVER bring this tech into home or office willingly. Includes Alexa and Siri and your smart TV. UNLESS you invest the time to know how to defeat/disable the negative consequences.

I can't imagine allowing Google to monitor EVERY ROOM in your house. But that's where it's going.

That's the thing. I was recently reading an account where friends of "Family A" called to advise that Alexa was broadcasting Family A's conversations to those friends. It was no hoax. They reported specifics in the conversations they had just heard.

Sure it was probably just a fluke, but something like that could really make you paranoid and with cause.

Maybe George Orwell was more visionary than he knew except that it isn't government so much that is listening and watching but rather commerce and industry. Of course government could do that too if they chose to do so.

I wonder if we have enough libertarians (little "L") left to take measures to prevent it?

 

[flacaltenn]

A family member once worked for a scientific prototype engineering firm where they devised surveillance devices for use primarily for law enforcement and security. That was the first time I learned that I was probably being watched in any public place. The eyes of mannikens in department stores can be cameras, tiny microphones can be placed anywhere to record what customers are saying about the merchandise, etc. and of course we know security cameras are surveilling us almost everywhere.

But it appears that public places also now include our homes. A current WSJ piece discusses the many devices that now utilize voice commands--Alexa, our smart phones, remotes on our smart TVs, watches, numerous appliances etc. And how many--not all but many--are transmitting what they see and/or hear for other uses?

. . .Consider the voice-controlled trash can from Simplehuman. Say “Open can” and it opens—and then closes on its own once the user walks away. That’s it.

While it’s easy to make fun of a high-tech trash can, especially one that costs $200, this one tackles one of the biggest concerns that comes with smart assistants: the fact that they record what we tell them and send it back to their parent companies.

Simplehuman’s trash can doesn’t do this, says Guy Cohen, the company’s director of electronics engineering. That’s because the latest microphones and their attached microprocessors process human speech in the gadget itself, without connecting to the cloud. . .​

All Ears: Always-On Listening Devices Could Soon Be Everywhere

But the point is, they could.

So what do you think? Is this getting out of hand? Could we unwittingly be transmitting everything we do and say to somebody(ies) who are listening and/or even watching? Our private conversations? Our family fights? Making love? Obviously the technology exists.

More importantly, does it bother you? And should it be regulated in any way?

P.S. The poll is set so that you can change your answer if you rethink it after this discussion.

I think any legislative action should be limited to package warnings about the recording capabilities and disclosures on whether any recorded/live stream data goes BACK over a network to the company or 3rd parties. Would be GOOD if the companies volunteered to do this. But they won't. Because they NEED that data to do Art. Intelligence training on their NEXT more powerful products.

AND - they may be data-mining you as well for profit..

You should just assume in public places or private establishments that you are being surveilled. But IMO -- you should NEVER bring this tech into home or office willingly. Includes Alexa and Siri and your smart TV. UNLESS you invest the time to know how to defeat/disable the negative consequences.

I can't imagine allowing Google to monitor EVERY ROOM in your house. But that's where it's going.

That's the thing. I was recently reading an account where friends of "Family A" called to advise that Alexa was broadcasting Family A's conversations to those friends. It was no hoax. They reported specifics in the conversations they had just heard.

Sure it was probably just a fluke, but something like that could really make you paranoid and with cause.

Maybe George Orwell was more visionary than he knew except that it isn't government so much that is listening and watching but rather commerce and industry. Of course government could do that too if they chose to do so.

I wonder if we have enough libertarians (little "L") left to take measures to prevent it?

Your government IS doing it. And all but the real Civil Libertarians are deaf to it. You would THINK that a Hasbro teddy bear that listens and talks to your child isn't a threat to your privacy. But without disclosures and packaging warnings, it might not ever OCCUR to most buyers.

 

[flacaltenn]

Anything like a "child monitor" or teddy bear or "digital assistant" or smart TV that needs to connect to your wi-fi is a big yellow flag. You should ask a BUNCH of questions at that point.

I don't want to sound like a conspiracy nut, but those consumer devices HAVE BEEN hacked and utilized by our top 3 letter agencies. So the potential to SPOOF some incriminating evidence on you that allegedly YOU generated -- IS a concern..

 

[Foxfyre]

Anything like a "child monitor" or teddy bear or "digital assistant" or smart TV that needs to connect to your wi-fi is a big yellow flag. You should ask a BUNCH of questions at that point.

I don't want to sound like a conspiracy nut, but those consumer devices HAVE BEEN hacked and utilized by our top 3 letter agencies. So the potential to SPOOF some incriminating evidence on you that allegedly YOU generated -- IS a concern..

Teddy bears connect to wifi? What do you mean by top 3 letter agencies? I'm getting more interested in this all the time.

 

[Foxfyre]

Also remembering years ago when who was it--Newt Gingrich's?--cell phone was hacked and listened in on. That would have been in the Clinton presidency. Think how technology has increased since then.

 

[JakeStarkey]

1. Internet of Things Teddy Bear Leaked 2 Million Parent and ...
   motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/pgwean/...
   A company that sells internet-connected teddy bears that allow kids and their far-away parents to exchange heartfelt messages left more than 800,000 customer credentials, as well as two million message recordings, totally exposed online for anyone to see and listen.
   
   
2. Data from internet-connected teddy bears held ransom ...
   www.foxnews.com/tech/2017/02/28/data-from-internet...
   Data from internet-connected smart teddy bears has been leaked and ransomed, exposing children’s voice messages and more than half a million customer accounts, according a security expert. Data from internet-connected smart teddy bears has been leaked and ransomed, exposing children’s voice messages and more than half a million customer accounts, according a security expert.
   
   
3. Connected dolls and tell-tale teddy bears: Why we need to ...
   www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/03/...
   However, the internet-based personalization of children's education via filtering algorithms may also increase the risk of 'educational bubbles' where children only receive information that fits their pre-existing knowledge and interest -- similar to adult interaction on social media networks.
   

 

[Asclepias]

The only problem with regulation is the very people that would be doing the regulation are the people that would most like to spy on you. The government. Right now devices like Alexa and Google Home transmit your voice commands to a AI server/servers in those companies clouds. They say that it wont transmit anything unless you use the key word to initiate a connection. Now this would mean that something on the local device is processing the key word prior to initiating a connection to the cloud and making a decision on whether or not a connection needs to be made. The programming on Alexa frequently will mistake some random word as the keyword and make a connection. I know this because I had a $500 dollar item delivered to my house due to a conversation I was having with my daughter near the Alexa device. Also it will randomly start talking about things without you having addressed it.

 

[Foxfyre]

The only problem with regulation is the very people that would be doing the regulation are the people that would most like to spy on you. The government. Right now devices like Alexa and Google Home transmit your voice commands to a AI server/servers in those companies clouds. They say that it wont transmit anything unless you use the key word to initiate a connection. Now this would mean that something on the local device is processing the key word prior to initiating a connection to the cloud and making a decision on whether or not a connection needs to be made. The programming on Alexa frequently will mistake some random word as the keyword and make a connection. I know this because I had a $500 dollar item delivered to my house due to a conversation I was having with my daughter near the Alexa device. Also it will randomly start talking about things without you having addressed it.

I believe what you are saying. And I am more than a little unnerved by it. They tell us they aren't listening, but if they have the capability to do so, how do we know we can trust them?

For reasons unnecessary to go into here, I have occasion that I really need to talk to people confident that the conversation is confidential. If I cannot meet with those people in my home, in an office, at a restaurant, or even on a public park bench without any concern that there is a listening device placed somewhere near me, that's just wrong.

 

[Foxfyre]

And with drones out there--some the size of humming birds and smaller--that can hover virtually undetected and watch everything that is happening in a broad area transmitting the video back to a monitoring station--some can position themselves inside buildings--we essentially have no assurance of privacy much of anywhere.