Is it okay to say we lost in Iraq because GWB was the president?

[Dr.Drock]

Dude I did not agree with anything, the only link I can find that agrees with you is not exactly Fox or CNN, thats why I posted it
And you jumped right on it
You guys have become very desperate. If you had proof that he attacked Somalia then why not use it?

How many sources do you need? You yourself provided one.

Battle of Ras Kamboni - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This stuff isn't hard to find. Who's desperate again?

I goggled Bush, missile attack Somalia and that never came up. I have nothing to be desperate about bud
Let me add something to this. If the Somalia pirates had attacked any ship carrying an american flag prior to that, then legally the president has the power to do that
I am not saying they did, he did, nor do I even care. IF we used a drone against the Somalia people during GWB term, it was once and was not a repeated event as Egypt and Libya has/had become

On January 10, Defense Department spokesman Bryan Whitman identified Somalia as part of the war on terror:
from your link, kind of like me saying it was OK to go into Pakistan and get OBL, big difference

Thank you for again agreeing with me that Bush attacked Somalia. I don't care what the excuse was, the fact is that he did (and so did Obama).

My entire point is these presidents can and will bomb any country they want, irregardless of whether we're attacked or not and irregardless of laws or Constitution.

I'm sorry to tell you that your fairy tales about President Bush just aren't true. I haven't seen parents defend their kids as much as you defend Bush. You really think he gave a shit about you or any other regular american?

 

[JRK]

How many sources do you need? You yourself provided one.

Battle of Ras Kamboni - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This stuff isn't hard to find. Who's desperate again?

I goggled Bush, missile attack Somalia and that never came up. I have nothing to be desperate about bud
Let me add something to this. If the Somalia pirates had attacked any ship carrying an american flag prior to that, then legally the president has the power to do that
I am not saying they did, he did, nor do I even care. IF we used a drone against the Somalia people during GWB term, it was once and was not a repeated event as Egypt and Libya has/had become

On January 10, Defense Department spokesman Bryan Whitman identified Somalia as part of the war on terror:
from your link, kind of like me saying it was OK to go into Pakistan and get OBL, big difference

Thank you for again agreeing with me that Bush attacked Somalia. I don't care what the excuse was, the fact is that he did (and so did Obama).

My entire point is these presidents can and will bomb any country they want, irregardless of whether we're attacked or not and irregardless of laws or Constitution.

I'm sorry to tell you that your fairy tales about President Bush just aren't true. I haven't seen parents defend their kids as much as you defend Bush. You really think he gave a shit about you or any other regular american?

Drock I tell the truth about GWB, I defend no-one

 

[Dr.Drock]

I goggled Bush, missile attack Somalia and that never came up. I have nothing to be desperate about bud
Let me add something to this. If the Somalia pirates had attacked any ship carrying an american flag prior to that, then legally the president has the power to do that
I am not saying they did, he did, nor do I even care. IF we used a drone against the Somalia people during GWB term, it was once and was not a repeated event as Egypt and Libya has/had become

On January 10, Defense Department spokesman Bryan Whitman identified Somalia as part of the war on terror:
from your link, kind of like me saying it was OK to go into Pakistan and get OBL, big difference

Thank you for again agreeing with me that Bush attacked Somalia. I don't care what the excuse was, the fact is that he did (and so did Obama).

My entire point is these presidents can and will bomb any country they want, irregardless of whether we're attacked or not and irregardless of laws or Constitution.

I'm sorry to tell you that your fairy tales about President Bush just aren't true. I haven't seen parents defend their kids as much as you defend Bush. You really think he gave a shit about you or any other regular american?

Drock I tell the truth about GWB, I defend no-one

Every post you make is about defending GWB, you idolize him as your hero, even though he was the biggest fiscal liberal in US history up until Obama.

 

[JRK]

Thank you for again agreeing with me that Bush attacked Somalia. I don't care what the excuse was, the fact is that he did (and so did Obama).

My entire point is these presidents can and will bomb any country they want, irregardless of whether we're attacked or not and irregardless of laws or Constitution.

I'm sorry to tell you that your fairy tales about President Bush just aren't true. I haven't seen parents defend their kids as much as you defend Bush. You really think he gave a shit about you or any other regular american?

Drock I tell the truth about GWB, I defend no-one

Every post you make is about defending GWB, you idolize him as your hero, even though he was the biggest fiscal liberal in US history up until Obama.

Drock GWB made 3 huge mistakes

1) No teacher left behind
2) Not funding his medicare plan properly
3) Failed to change our tax system totally

Does that make you happy?
In fact in my opinion he went from a A- to a C to C- president just on the first 2
His tax reform saved me close to $30,000.00
Actually his tax reform, I give him a C+

 

[Dr.Drock]

Drock I tell the truth about GWB, I defend no-one

Every post you make is about defending GWB, you idolize him as your hero, even though he was the biggest fiscal liberal in US history up until Obama.

Drock GWB made 3 huge mistakes

1) No teacher left behind
2) Not funding his medicare plan properly
3) changed our tax system totally

Does that make you happy?
In fact in my opinion he went from a A- to a C to C- president just on the first 2
His tax reform saved me close to $30,000.00

I do appreciate that but if you've a fiscal conservative you'll find much more than 3 issues with GWB. The list would be almost never ending.

 

[JRK]

Every post you make is about defending GWB, you idolize him as your hero, even though he was the biggest fiscal liberal in US history up until Obama.

Drock GWB made 3 huge mistakes

1) No teacher left behind
2) Not funding his medicare plan properly
3) changed our tax system totally

Does that make you happy?
In fact in my opinion he went from a A- to a C to C- president just on the first 2
His tax reform saved me close to $30,000.00

I do appreciate that but if you've a fiscal conservative you'll find much more than 3 issues with GWB. The list would be almost never ending.

Lets see it big boy
By the way, Huge is the word your missing

 

[Dr.Drock]

Drock GWB made 3 huge mistakes

1) No teacher left behind
2) Not funding his medicare plan properly
3) changed our tax system totally

Does that make you happy?
In fact in my opinion he went from a A- to a C to C- president just on the first 2
His tax reform saved me close to $30,000.00

I do appreciate that but if you've a fiscal conservative you'll find much more than 3 issues with GWB. The list would be almost never ending.

Lets see it big boyBy the way, Huge is the word your missing

Why do you have to talk like an angry 5 year old?

Well off the top of my head.

I'd disagree with his welfare budget. His social security budget. His budget for every single department in government. His expansion of gov't by creating the Dept of Homeland Defense when we already have enormous departments handling everything they do. TARP. Unemployment budgets. Overall budget. Defiticits. Racking up debt and I'm sure there's a million other things.

Now your reply is going to be something about how Obama is worse, and I'll agree with you, Obama being worse doesn't make Bush good by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[JRK]

I do appreciate that but if you've a fiscal conservative you'll find much more than 3 issues with GWB. The list would be almost never ending.

Lets see it big boyBy the way, Huge is the word your missing

Why do you have to talk like an angry 5 year old?

Well off the top of my head.

I'd disagree with his welfare budget. His social security budget. His budget for every single department in government. His expansion of gov't by creating the Dept of Homeland Defense when we already have enormous departments handling everything they do. TARP. Unemployment budgets. Overall budget. Defiticits. Racking up debt and I'm sure there's a million other things.

Now your reply is going to be something about how Obama is worse, and I'll agree with you, Obama being worse doesn't make Bush good by any stretch of the imagination.

Look I keep going back to the 07 budget. one more thing if you had been reading my thread about a living wage you would see how much we agree with the wel-fare number we are spending each year

 

[Dr.Drock]

Lets see it big boyBy the way, Huge is the word your missing

Why do you have to talk like an angry 5 year old?

Well off the top of my head.

I'd disagree with his welfare budget. His social security budget. His budget for every single department in government. His expansion of gov't by creating the Dept of Homeland Defense when we already have enormous departments handling everything they do. TARP. Unemployment budgets. Overall budget. Defiticits. Racking up debt and I'm sure there's a million other things.

Now your reply is going to be something about how Obama is worse, and I'll agree with you, Obama being worse doesn't make Bush good by any stretch of the imagination.

Look I keep going back to the 07 budget. one more thing if you had been reading my thread about a living wage you would see how much we agree with the wel-fare number we are spending each year

The 07 budget sucked. Any true fiscal conservative would easily have a surplus with the taxes we take in. Only a hardcore fiscal liberal couldn't balance the budget let alone rack up debt and increase spending every year.

Which is what GWB is if you go by facts, a hardcore fiscal liberal. No way around it.

 

[JRK]

Why do you have to talk like an angry 5 year old?

Well off the top of my head.

I'd disagree with his welfare budget. His social security budget. His budget for every single department in government. His expansion of gov't by creating the Dept of Homeland Defense when we already have enormous departments handling everything they do. TARP. Unemployment budgets. Overall budget. Defiticits. Racking up debt and I'm sure there's a million other things.

Now your reply is going to be something about how Obama is worse, and I'll agree with you, Obama being worse doesn't make Bush good by any stretch of the imagination.

Look I keep going back to the 07 budget. one more thing if you had been reading my thread about a living wage you would see how much we agree with the wel-fare number we are spending each year

The 07 budget sucked. Any true fiscal conservative would easily have a surplus with the taxes we take in. Only a hardcore fiscal liberal couldn't balance the budget let alone rack up debt and increase spending every year.

Which is what GWB is if you go by facts, a hardcore fiscal liberal. No way around it.

You take away no child left behind, his medicare additions your there

 

[MiddleClass]

You people who claim we lost the war in Iraq as we leave there and they are doing fine with a republic in place better think twice or at best look who is standing around you when you claim we lost that war just because GWB was the president and it was his war

I am not kidding. I know some gung ho marines who do not feel that way and I am clueless as to why any of you would feel that way

ARE U NUTS?

Although its politically correct to not speak ill of current wars, so as to not to offend our returning soldiers, as was done after the failed Vietnam war, but if anyone really thinks we won the Iraq War really needs a dose in reality

 

[Dr.Drock]

Look I keep going back to the 07 budget. one more thing if you had been reading my thread about a living wage you would see how much we agree with the wel-fare number we are spending each year

The 07 budget sucked. Any true fiscal conservative would easily have a surplus with the taxes we take in. Only a hardcore fiscal liberal couldn't balance the budget let alone rack up debt and increase spending every year.

Which is what GWB is if you go by facts, a hardcore fiscal liberal. No way around it.

You take away no child left behind, his medicare additions your there

So you have no issue with all the things I listed?

 

[JRK]

You people who claim we lost the war in Iraq as we leave there and they are doing fine with a republic in place better think twice or at best look who is standing around you when you claim we lost that war just because GWB was the president and it was his war

I am not kidding. I know some gung ho marines who do not feel that way and I am clueless as to why any of you would feel that way

ARE U NUTS?

Although its politically correct to not speak ill of current wars, so as to not to offend our returning soldiers, as was done after the failed Vietnam war, but if anyone really thinks we won the Iraq War really needs a dose in reality

Politically correct?
I have heard no-one speak about the Iraqi war in any thing but bad
Why do you think as we leave, The Iraqi people firmly in control of there future, Saddam gone, all weapons, no matter where they were in 2001, are gone, and a republic firmly in place, speaking of a dose of reality?
What was it you think we where there to do?

 

[Dr.Drock]

You people who claim we lost the war in Iraq as we leave there and they are doing fine with a republic in place better think twice or at best look who is standing around you when you claim we lost that war just because GWB was the president and it was his war

I am not kidding. I know some gung ho marines who do not feel that way and I am clueless as to why any of you would feel that way

ARE U NUTS?

Although its politically correct to not speak ill of current wars, so as to not to offend our returning soldiers, as was done after the failed Vietnam war, but if anyone really thinks we won the Iraq War really needs a dose in reality

Depends how you look at it. Militarily of course we won, nobody questioned whether or not our military would defeat that of Iraq.

As a country we certainly lost, the lost lives of soldiers, the permanent physical and mental scars on soldiers, the financial burden, increased level of foreign hate to america which will increase a foreigners desire to become a terrorist etc. The people who also lost the war are minorities in Iraq and most especially christians in Iraq, this was worse for them than anyone else.

 

[pgm]

We definitely won in Iraq. The most negative I could be is that it was a Pyrrhic victory. Sky's the limit for the upside.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Is it okay to say we lost in Iraq because GWB was the president?

O.K.???

No.

Predictable???

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!

 

[Mr. Shaman]

You people who claim we lost the war in Iraq as we leave there and they are doing fine with a republic in place better think twice or at best look who is standing around you when you claim we lost that war just because GWB was the president and it was his war

I am not kidding. I know some gung ho marines who do not feel that way and I am clueless as to why any of you would feel that way

ARE U NUTS?

Although its politically correct to not speak ill of current wars, so as to not to offend our returning soldiers, as was done after the failed Vietnam war, but if anyone really thinks we won the Iraq War really needs a dose in reality

Politically correct?
I have heard no-one speak about the Iraqi war in any thing but bad
Why do you think as we leave, The Iraqi people firmly in control of there future, Saddam gone, all weapons, no matter where they were in 2001, are gone, and a republic firmly in place, speaking of a dose of reality?
What was it you think we where there to do?

To follow-up on....

....PRE-Bush-election planning?????

​

 

[JRK]

We definitely won in Iraq. The most negative I could be is that it was a Pyrrhic victory. Sky's the limit for the upside.

PGM the cost was for the most part fighting Al Qaeda, unless your talking about the split the left has caused from it to re-gain power (it worked for 2 years any-way)
we stopped fighting Iraqis a long long long time ago
al-Qaeda in Iraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
They do screw with the date, they cannot help I guess. Al Qaeda was in Iraq prior to 2003, they have it both ways in different subject matters

The Weekly Standard reports that, before the invasion of Iraq, Zarqawi ran a "terrorist haven" in Kurdish northern Iraq.[36] According to a March 2003 British intelligence report, Zarqawi had set up "sleeper cells" in Baghdad before the Iraq war. The report stated "Reporting since (February) suggests that senior al Qaeda associate Abu Musab al-Zarqawi has established sleeper cells in Baghdad, to be activated during a U.S. occupation of the city...These cells apparently intend to attack U.S. targets using car bombs and other weapons. (It is also possible that they have received [chemical and biological] materials from terrorists in the [Kurdish Autonomous Zone]),...al Qaeda-associated terrorists continued to arrive in Baghdad in early March."[37]

Abu Musab al-Zarqawi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[pgm]

We definitely won in Iraq. The most negative I could be is that it was a Pyrrhic victory. Sky's the limit for the upside.

PGM the cost was for the most part fighting Al Qaeda, unless your talking about the split the left has caused from it to re-gain power (it worked for 2 years any-way)
we stopped fighting Iraqis a long long long time ago

Where did you find a breakdown of cost? Are you talking money or lives? American only or American and Iraqi civilian? I can't really comment on your claim until I know what you're talking about.

The vast majority of the insurgency was Sunnis, but not AQI. AQI made up about 15% of the attacks (although they were more deadly in scale). Shiite groups such as the Bagdr Brigade and the Mahdi Army made up about 10% of the attacks.

The siege of Sadr City was in 2008, so I'm not sure what you mean by the U.S. stopping its battles with Iraqis "a long long long time ago."

I don't know what you mean by the split the left caused. I don't like to apply tradition left/right labels to Iraqi politics because they seem so out of place.

al-Qaeda in Iraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
They do screw with the date, they cannot help I guess. Al Qaeda was in Iraq prior to 2003, they have it both ways in different subject matters

Al-Zarqawi's organization existed a while before the Iraq War (primarily in Jordan, but also in the Kurdish north). It didn't become AQI until 2003. Before that, it was often at odds with Osama bin-Laden's organization, but pledged loyalty when it decided that fighting the U.S. was more important to its cause than any other petty squabbles for influence and power. The Pakistani Al Qaeda never had any operational control over AQI, but Zarqawi certainly used the connection for recruitment and training and one could argue they became sister organizations.

The Weekly Standard reports that, before the invasion of Iraq, Zarqawi ran a "terrorist haven" in Kurdish northern Iraq.[36] According to a March 2003 British intelligence report, Zarqawi had set up "sleeper cells" in Baghdad before the Iraq war. The report stated "Reporting since (February) suggests that senior al Qaeda associate Abu Musab al-Zarqawi has established sleeper cells in Baghdad, to be activated during a U.S. occupation of the city...These cells apparently intend to attack U.S. targets using car bombs and other weapons. (It is also possible that they have received [chemical and biological] materials from terrorists in the [Kurdish Autonomous Zone]),...al Qaeda-associated terrorists continued to arrive in Baghdad in early March."[37]

It's possible. It was pretty clear that a U.S.-led invasion was coming. Excuse me for not excepting a report from the Weekly Standard at face value, though.

Anyway, I still stand by what I said. In 10 years, we could look at Iraq as a great success or as a Pyrrhic victory. One in which a great number of lives were lost and tons of money spent to create a state without Saddam Hussein, but also without any loyalty to the U.S.

 

[JRK]

We definitely won in Iraq. The most negative I could be is that it was a Pyrrhic victory. Sky's the limit for the upside.

PGM the cost was for the most part fighting Al Qaeda, unless your talking about the split the left has caused from it to re-gain power (it worked for 2 years any-way)
we stopped fighting Iraqis a long long long time ago

Where did you find a breakdown of cost? Are you talking money or lives? American only or American and Iraqi civilian? I can't really comment on your claim until I know what you're talking about.

The vast majority of the insurgency was Sunnis, but not AQI. AQI made up about 15% of the attacks (although they were more deadly in scale). Shiite groups such as the Bagdr Brigade and the Mahdi Army made up about 10% of the attacks.

The siege of Sadr City was in 2008, so I'm not sure what you mean by the U.S. stopping its battles with Iraqis "a long long long time ago."

I don't know what you mean by the split the left caused. I don't like to apply tradition left/right labels to Iraqi politics because they seem so out of place.

al-Qaeda in Iraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
They do screw with the date, they cannot help I guess. Al Qaeda was in Iraq prior to 2003, they have it both ways in different subject matters

Al-Zarqawi's organization existed a while before the Iraq War (primarily in Jordan, but also in the Kurdish north). It didn't become AQI until 2003. Before that, it was often at odds with Osama bin-Laden's organization, but pledged loyalty when it decided that fighting the U.S. was more important to its cause than any other petty squabbles for influence and power. The Pakistani Al Qaeda never had any operational control over AQI, but Zarqawi certainly used the connection for recruitment and training and one could argue they became sister organizations.

The Weekly Standard reports that, before the invasion of Iraq, Zarqawi ran a "terrorist haven" in Kurdish northern Iraq.[36] According to a March 2003 British intelligence report, Zarqawi had set up "sleeper cells" in Baghdad before the Iraq war. The report stated "Reporting since (February) suggests that senior al Qaeda associate Abu Musab al-Zarqawi has established sleeper cells in Baghdad, to be activated during a U.S. occupation of the city...These cells apparently intend to attack U.S. targets using car bombs and other weapons. (It is also possible that they have received [chemical and biological] materials from terrorists in the [Kurdish Autonomous Zone]),...al Qaeda-associated terrorists continued to arrive in Baghdad in early March."[37]

It's possible. It was pretty clear that a U.S.-led invasion was coming. Excuse me for not excepting a report from the Weekly Standard at face value, though.

Anyway, I still stand by what I said. In 10 years, we could look at Iraq as a great success or as a Pyrrhic victory. One in which a great number of lives were lost and tons of money spent to create a state without Saddam Hussein, but also without any loyalty to the U.S.

Loyalty to the US is doubtful. As long as they dont get stupid that was the object
Again most of the lives and most of the money went to killing Al-Qaeda in Iraq

Although the relationship between bin Laden's organization, Al Qaida, and "Al Qaida in Iraq" is in question, the American approach has treated the group as a target in the "war on terror" and, lately, as its most important foe in the region.
Iraq War and Terrorism in Iraq: Who is Fighting the Iraq War?
Al-Qaeda in Iraq: Facts, Discussion Forum, and Encyclopedia Article