Is it ok for a church to knowingly break one of the 10 Commandments?

That was cute, is that your way of denying the Old Testament says that? Do you want me to provide the link and show you the chaper and verse?

I guess John Adams, a Founding Father, overlooked your nazi inventions when he praised Jewish ethics.

US President John Adams...
I will insist that the Hebrews have done more to civilize men than any other nation. If I were an atheist, and believed in blind eternal fate, I should still believe that fate had ordained the Jews to be the most essential instrument for civilizing the nations. If I were an atheist of the other sect, who believe, or pretend to believe that all is ordered by chance, I should believe that chance had ordered the Jews to preserve and propagate to all mankind the doctrine of a supreme, intelligent, wise, almighty sovereign of the universe, which I believe to be the great essential principle of all morality, and consequently of all civilization.

A good deflection attempt, but what do I care what John Adams said?

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT - Suppose a man has intercourse with a - Bible Gateway

28 “Suppose a man has intercourse with a young woman who is a virgin but is not engaged to be married. If they are discovered, 29 he must pay her father fifty pieces of silver.[a] Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he may never divorce her as long as he lives.



Now a simple yes or no answer will do, do you find this passage to be morally acceptable? A rape victim forced to marry her rapist?

When you're not trolling nazi websites and, posting on message boards, you're a Biblical scholar, dink:lol:

Constitutional Rights Foundation: The Hebrews and the Foundation of Western Law
The Ten Commandments and many other elements of Hebrew law provided a major source for the development of western legal systems and democracy
.

Three thousand years ago, the ancient Hebrew people lived in the Near East in an area called Canaan. This ancient people developed the idea of monotheism, the belief in one god. They believed that their god gave them laws to regulate their society, their religious practices, and their relationships with other people.

Conquered by the neo-Babylonians and later by the Romans, the Hebrews eventually became a scattered people, living in many countries under different legal systems. But they continued to develop their own law and tried to follow it even in foreign lands. Their law was based on the Ten Commandments and other sacred writings, which today we find in the Hebrew Bible. In developing their law, they sometimes borrowed legal concepts from other civilizations as well as passing on their own ideas. The Jewish law that developed influenced Roman law, English law, and our own Declaration of Independence and Constitution.

Equality
The Torah teaches that God created Adam, the first human, as the father of all peoples. Thus, all humans are born equal and should be treated equally by the law. This is today recognized as a major principle of law.
The Rule of Law
The Torah does not recognize the idea of kings ruling by divine right. According to tradition, the Hebrew people made Saul their first king in 1030 B.C., when enemy nations threatened their survival. But Saul and the other Hebrew kings that followed him were never considered to be gods or high priests with the power to interpret God’s will.

Hebrew kings, like everyone else, had to obey the Ten Commandments and the other laws of the Torah. The written Torah, not the whims of kings, was considered the law of the land.

Majority Rule and Democracy
The Hebrew concept of majority rule comes from the Torah’s command to “follow the multitude.” The majority decided disputes among scholars on the meaning of God’s laws, the court decisions of judges, and the local acts of Jewish communities.

Since Jews lived under the rule of foreign nations after A.D. 70, they practiced only limited forms of self-government. By the 12th century, however, many countries permitted Jewish communities to elect local town councils, the “Seven Good Men of the City.” These councils, chosen by the majority of adult males, supervised religious, economic, educational, and charity activities. The entire community often decided important questions at a town meeting.

Freedom of Religion and Speech
Being born a Jew makes one obligated to follow the Torah. But Jews must do this freely. Non-Jews have the freedom to practice their own religions. Moreover, unlike most other religions, Judaism does not actively seek converts.

A tradition of free speech existed among the Hebrews. Hebrew prophets openly spoke out against their kings and the people for failing to follow the Torah. During the long history of disputes over the meaning of the Torah, no one was tried for heresy (going against religious doctrine). Also, while the majority decided matters of law, the minority had a chance to be heard and their opinions were often recorded.

Fair Trial
In Judea, the court system had three levels. The highest court was the Great Sandedrin, which had 71 judges. Lesser courts with 23 judges dealt with death penalty cases. Lower courts with three judges handled most civil and criminal matters. Most of these courts stopped functioning after the Romans destroyed the temple in Jerusalem. In countries where they were permitted to operate, however, three-judge courts continued to hand out justice in Jewish communities.

Many parts of the Torah, Talmud, and the codes of law that followed described due process procedures to ensure fair trials. Anyone accused of a crime had the right of bail except in death-penalty cases. Traditional Jewish courts had no trained lawyers arguing cases. The prosecutor was either the victim himself or, if he had been killed, a relative (“blood-avenger”) or someone appointed by the court. The accused could defend himself or ask another to plead for him. Evidence included documents and the testimony of witnesses. The consistent testimony of two male witnesses to the crime was necessary to convict the accused. The judges closely cross-examined witnesses in the presence of the accused. Circumstantial evidence alone was never enough to find someone guilty. Witnesses who broke the commandment forbidding one to “bear false witness” faced the same penalty that the accused would have suffered. The accused had an absolute right against self-incrimination and was not permitted to make statements harmful to himself. Likewise, confessions were not admissible evidence in court. There was no jury. The judges deliberated with the accused looking on. The youngest judge spoke his opinion first in order to avoid being influenced by the senior judges. The judges then decided the verdict by majority vote

BRIA 16 4 a The Hebrews and the Foundation of Western Law - Constitutional Rights Foundation
 
Last edited:
I guess John Adams, a Founding Father, overlooked your nazi inventions when he praised Jewish ethics.

US President John Adams...

A good deflection attempt, but what do I care what John Adams said?

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT - Suppose a man has intercourse with a - Bible Gateway

28 “Suppose a man has intercourse with a young woman who is a virgin but is not engaged to be married. If they are discovered, 29 he must pay her father fifty pieces of silver.[a] Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he may never divorce her as long as he lives.



Now a simple yes or no answer will do, do you find this passage to be morally acceptable? A rape victim forced to marry her rapist?

When you're not trolling nazi websites and, posting on message boards, you're a Biblical scholar, dink:lol:

Constitutional Rights Foundation: The Hebrews and the Foundation of Western Law
The Ten Commandments and many other elements of Hebrew law provided a major source for the development of western legal systems and democracy
.

Three thousand years ago, the ancient Hebrew people lived in the Near East in an area called Canaan. This ancient people developed the idea of monotheism, the belief in one god. They believed that their god gave them laws to regulate their society, their religious practices, and their relationships with other people.

Conquered by the neo-Babylonians and later by the Romans, the Hebrews eventually became a scattered people, living in many countries under different legal systems. But they continued to develop their own law and tried to follow it even in foreign lands. Their law was based on the Ten Commandments and other sacred writings, which today we find in the Hebrew Bible. In developing their law, they sometimes borrowed legal concepts from other civilizations as well as passing on their own ideas. The Jewish law that developed influenced Roman law, English law, and our own Declaration of Independence and Constitution.

Equality
The Torah teaches that God created Adam, the first human, as the father of all peoples. Thus, all humans are born equal and should be treated equally by the law. This is today recognized as a major principle of law.
The Rule of Law
The Torah does not recognize the idea of kings ruling by divine right. According to tradition, the Hebrew people made Saul their first king in 1030 B.C., when enemy nations threatened their survival. But Saul and the other Hebrew kings that followed him were never considered to be gods or high priests with the power to interpret God’s will.

Hebrew kings, like everyone else, had to obey the Ten Commandments and the other laws of the Torah. The written Torah, not the whims of kings, was considered the law of the land.

Majority Rule and Democracy
The Hebrew concept of majority rule comes from the Torah’s command to “follow the multitude.” The majority decided disputes among scholars on the meaning of God’s laws, the court decisions of judges, and the local acts of Jewish communities.

Since Jews lived under the rule of foreign nations after A.D. 70, they practiced only limited forms of self-government. By the 12th century, however, many countries permitted Jewish communities to elect local town councils, the “Seven Good Men of the City.” These councils, chosen by the majority of adult males, supervised religious, economic, educational, and charity activities. The entire community often decided important questions at a town meeting.

Freedom of Religion and Speech
Being born a Jew makes one obligated to follow the Torah. But Jews must do this freely. Non-Jews have the freedom to practice their own religions. Moreover, unlike most other religions, Judaism does not actively seek converts.

A tradition of free speech existed among the Hebrews. Hebrew prophets openly spoke out against their kings and the people for failing to follow the Torah. During the long history of disputes over the meaning of the Torah, no one was tried for heresy (going against religious doctrine). Also, while the majority decided matters of law, the minority had a chance to be heard and their opinions were often recorded.

Fair Trial
In Judea, the court system had three levels. The highest court was the Great Sandedrin, which had 71 judges. Lesser courts with 23 judges dealt with death penalty cases. Lower courts with three judges handled most civil and criminal matters. Most of these courts stopped functioning after the Romans destroyed the temple in Jerusalem. In countries where they were permitted to operate, however, three-judge courts continued to hand out justice in Jewish communities.

Many parts of the Torah, Talmud, and the codes of law that followed described due process procedures to ensure fair trials. Anyone accused of a crime had the right of bail except in death-penalty cases. Traditional Jewish courts had no trained lawyers arguing cases. The prosecutor was either the victim himself or, if he had been killed, a relative (“blood-avenger”) or someone appointed by the court. The accused could defend himself or ask another to plead for him. Evidence included documents and the testimony of witnesses. The consistent testimony of two male witnesses to the crime was necessary to convict the accused. The judges closely cross-examined witnesses in the presence of the accused. Circumstantial evidence alone was never enough to find someone guilty. Witnesses who broke the commandment forbidding one to “bear false witness” faced the same penalty that the accused would have suffered. The accused had an absolute right against self-incrimination and was not permitted to make statements harmful to himself. Likewise, confessions were not admissible evidence in court. There was no jury. The judges deliberated with the accused looking on. The youngest judge spoke his opinion first in order to avoid being influenced by the senior judges. The judges then decided the verdict by majority vote

BRIA 16 4 a The Hebrews and the Foundation of Western Law - Constitutional Rights Foundation

I didn't claim to be a biblical scholar, all i did was simply cut and paste a tiny section of the Bible.

I'm ignoring your other deflection attempt.

I'll just cut and paste.

28 “Suppose a man has intercourse with a young woman who is a virgin but is not engaged to be married. If they are discovered, 29 he must pay her father fifty pieces of silver.[a] Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he may never divorce her as long as he lives.



Now a simple yes or no answer will do, do you find this passage to be morally acceptable? A rape victim forced to marry her rapist?
 
That was cute, is that your way of denying the Old Testament says that? Do you want me to provide the link and show you the chaper and verse?

I guess John Adams, a Founding Father, overlooked your nazi inventions when he praised Jewish ethics.

US President John Adams...
I will insist that the Hebrews have done more to civilize men than any other nation. If I were an atheist, and believed in blind eternal fate, I should still believe that fate had ordained the Jews to be the most essential instrument for civilizing the nations. If I were an atheist of the other sect, who believe, or pretend to believe that all is ordered by chance, I should believe that chance had ordered the Jews to preserve and propagate to all mankind the doctrine of a supreme, intelligent, wise, almighty sovereign of the universe, which I believe to be the great essential principle of all morality, and consequently of all civilization.

A good deflection attempt, but what do I care what John Adams said?

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT - Suppose a man has intercourse with a - Bible Gateway

28 “Suppose a man has intercourse with a young woman who is a virgin but is not engaged to be married. If they are discovered, 29 he must pay her father fifty pieces of silver.[a] Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he may never divorce her as long as he lives.



Now a simple yes or no answer will do, do you find this passage to be morally acceptable? A rape victim forced to marry her rapist?

Dummy, nowhere does Deut. 22:28-29 reference rape.

JPS Tanakh: If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, that is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he hath humbled

The correct interpretation is that In ancient times, a non-virgin had no chance of marriage. Thus, it was determined that it was a man's responsibility to marry a woman he slept with out of respect for the woman.

Now, don't you feel foolish, dummy. :lol:
 
I guess John Adams, a Founding Father, overlooked your nazi inventions when he praised Jewish ethics.

US President John Adams...

A good deflection attempt, but what do I care what John Adams said?

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT - Suppose a man has intercourse with a - Bible Gateway

28 “Suppose a man has intercourse with a young woman who is a virgin but is not engaged to be married. If they are discovered, 29 he must pay her father fifty pieces of silver.[a] Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he may never divorce her as long as he lives.



Now a simple yes or no answer will do, do you find this passage to be morally acceptable? A rape victim forced to marry her rapist?

Dummy, nowhere does Deut. 22:28-29 reference rape.

JPS Tanakh: If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, that is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he hath humbled

The correct interpretation is that In ancient times, a non-virgin had no chance of marriage. Thus, it was determined that it was a man's responsibility to marry a woman he slept with out of respect for the woman.

Now, don't you feel foolish, dummy. :lol:

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NIV - If a man happens to meet a virgin who - Bible Gateway

Deuteronomy 22:28-29
New International Version (NIV)


28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels[a] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

So you disagree with this interpretation?

Do you think everything in the Old Testament is morally sound and righteous? (answer carefully)
 
abstinence101.gif
 
Mark 10:9-12 NIV - Therefore what God has joined together, - Bible Gateway

Mark 10:9-12
New International Version (NIV)

9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

10 When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this. 11 He answered, “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. 12 And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.”

Exodus 20:14 NIV - You shall not - Bible Gateway

Exodus 20:14
New International Version (NIV)


14 “You shall not commit adultery.





The first quote is from Jesus in the New Testament, so there's no getting around it, no gray area, no need for interpretation.

Are you ok with a church performing someone's 2nd+ marriage, that wasn't to his/her original wife/husband?

Actually, the pastor that married me and my x was quite specific when he said; "I'll only do this once."

I thought he was just being a putz, but it seems he actually would only marry a person once. If you wanted to get remarried, as a member of his church, kick rocks and get it done by the JP.
 
A good deflection attempt, but what do I care what John Adams said?

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT - Suppose a man has intercourse with a - Bible Gateway

28 “Suppose a man has intercourse with a young woman who is a virgin but is not engaged to be married. If they are discovered, 29 he must pay her father fifty pieces of silver.[a] Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he may never divorce her as long as he lives.



Now a simple yes or no answer will do, do you find this passage to be morally acceptable? A rape victim forced to marry her rapist?

Dummy, nowhere does Deut. 22:28-29 reference rape.

JPS Tanakh: If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, that is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he hath humbled

The correct interpretation is that In ancient times, a non-virgin had no chance of marriage. Thus, it was determined that it was a man's responsibility to marry a woman he slept with out of respect for the woman.

Now, don't you feel foolish, dummy. :lol:

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NIV - If a man happens to meet a virgin who - Bible Gateway

Deuteronomy 22:28-29
New International Version (NIV)


28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels[a] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

So you disagree with this interpretation?

Do you think everything in the Old Testament is morally sound and righteous? (answer carefully)

You demonstrate the vast distinction between merely reading and reading comprehension. You are referencing Christian translations of the Hebrew Bible, not a very good idea. The Tanakh merely stipulates that a man who makes the decision to have sex with a virgin is responsible for her well-being by marrying her since non-virgins were not marriageable in ancient times

Not very complicated, after all :clap2:
 
A good deflection attempt, but what do I care what John Adams said?

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT - Suppose a man has intercourse with a - Bible Gateway

28 “Suppose a man has intercourse with a young woman who is a virgin but is not engaged to be married. If they are discovered, 29 he must pay her father fifty pieces of silver.[a] Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he may never divorce her as long as he lives.



Now a simple yes or no answer will do, do you find this passage to be morally acceptable? A rape victim forced to marry her rapist?

Dummy, nowhere does Deut. 22:28-29 reference rape.

JPS Tanakh: If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, that is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he hath humbled

The correct interpretation is that In ancient times, a non-virgin had no chance of marriage. Thus, it was determined that it was a man's responsibility to marry a woman he slept with out of respect for the woman.

Now, don't you feel foolish, dummy. :lol:

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NIV - If a man happens to meet a virgin who - Bible Gateway

Deuteronomy 22:28-29
New International Version (NIV)


28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels[a] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

So you disagree with this interpretation?

Do you think everything in the Old Testament is morally sound and righteous? (answer carefully)

You are a 21st century man reading a 0 century book.


If a woman was to get married, her family had to pay a dowery. basically give money to the future husbands family. or vice versa, I can't recall.

If they did the deed [it was more than likely not 21st century rape, but consensual sex], the father of the woman will not be able to get her out of the home. So the man has to pay a fine to the family.

I'm fairly certain, actual rape would end with the death of the man. I can't recall, but that would fall under coveting and honoring your mom and dad.
 
Dummy, nowhere does Deut. 22:28-29 reference rape.

JPS Tanakh: If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, that is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he hath humbled

The correct interpretation is that In ancient times, a non-virgin had no chance of marriage. Thus, it was determined that it was a man's responsibility to marry a woman he slept with out of respect for the woman.

Now, don't you feel foolish, dummy. :lol:

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NIV - If a man happens to meet a virgin who - Bible Gateway

Deuteronomy 22:28-29
New International Version (NIV)


28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels[a] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

So you disagree with this interpretation?

Do you think everything in the Old Testament is morally sound and righteous? (answer carefully)

You are a 21st century man reading a 0 century book.


If a woman was to get married, her family had to pay a dowery. basically give money to the future husbands family. or vice versa, I can't recall.

If they did the deed [it was more than likely not 21st century rape, but consensual sex], the father of the woman will not be able to get her out of the home. So the man has to pay a fine to the family.

I'm fairly certain, actual rape would end with the death of the man. I can't recall, but that would fall under coveting and honoring your mom and dad.

Fair enough, but there's plenty of instances in the OT where rape is encouraged in some instances, so I'm sure the old men who thought up the Bible didn't worry too much about the outcome for the women involved.
 
Dummy, nowhere does Deut. 22:28-29 reference rape.

JPS Tanakh: If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, that is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he hath humbled

The correct interpretation is that In ancient times, a non-virgin had no chance of marriage. Thus, it was determined that it was a man's responsibility to marry a woman he slept with out of respect for the woman.

Now, don't you feel foolish, dummy. :lol:

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NIV - If a man happens to meet a virgin who - Bible Gateway

Deuteronomy 22:28-29
New International Version (NIV)


28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels[a] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

So you disagree with this interpretation?

Do you think everything in the Old Testament is morally sound and righteous? (answer carefully)

You demonstrate the vast distinction between merely reading and reading comprehension. You are referencing Christian translations of the Hebrew Bible, not a very good idea. The Tanakh merely stipulates that a man who makes the decision to have sex with a virgin is responsible for her well-being by marrying her since non-virgins were not marriageable in ancient times

Not very complicated, after all :clap2:

I give up, no matter how many times basic questions are asked you refuse to answer them.


That's what I usually encounter when someone is so fundamentalist (YouWereCreated, Sunni Man, yourself) they absolutely refuse to admit anything in their holy books are immoral. I could list dozens and dozens of inhuman and immoral things in the Old Testament and you'd deflect either with a childish insult/a non-answer/or my personal favorite a justification of the immorality.
 
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NIV - If a man happens to meet a virgin who - Bible Gateway

Deuteronomy 22:28-29
New International Version (NIV)


28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels[a] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

So you disagree with this interpretation?

Do you think everything in the Old Testament is morally sound and righteous? (answer carefully)

You demonstrate the vast distinction between merely reading and reading comprehension. You are referencing Christian translations of the Hebrew Bible, not a very good idea. The Tanakh merely stipulates that a man who makes the decision to have sex with a virgin is responsible for her well-being by marrying her since non-virgins were not marriageable in ancient times

Not very complicated, after all :clap2:

I give up, no matter how many times basic questions are asked you refuse to answer them.


That's what I usually encounter when someone is so fundamentalist (YouWereCreated, Sunni Man, yourself) they absolutely refuse to admit anything in their holy books are immoral. I could list dozens and dozens of inhuman and immoral things in the Old Testament and you'd deflect either with a childish insult/a non-answer/or my personal favorite a justification of the immorality.

You've been pwned. You were clueless of the correct reading of your own biblical citation.

Now, walk away
 
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NIV - If a man happens to meet a virgin who - Bible Gateway

Deuteronomy 22:28-29
New International Version (NIV)


28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels[a] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

So you disagree with this interpretation?

Do you think everything in the Old Testament is morally sound and righteous? (answer carefully)

You are a 21st century man reading a 0 century book.


If a woman was to get married, her family had to pay a dowery. basically give money to the future husbands family. or vice versa, I can't recall.

If they did the deed [it was more than likely not 21st century rape, but consensual sex], the father of the woman will not be able to get her out of the home. So the man has to pay a fine to the family.

I'm fairly certain, actual rape would end with the death of the man. I can't recall, but that would fall under coveting and honoring your mom and dad.

Fair enough, but there's plenty of instances in the OT where rape is encouraged in some instances, so I'm sure the old men who thought up the Bible didn't worry too much about the outcome for the women involved.

I disagree [somewhat]. While rape was seen as a conquesters right, or some such non-sense, keep in mind, if you and I were different tribes, we considered each other to be lesser beings and not fully "human". So raping your women wasn't a crime while raping one of my own may have dire consequences.
 
You demonstrate the vast distinction between merely reading and reading comprehension. You are referencing Christian translations of the Hebrew Bible, not a very good idea. The Tanakh merely stipulates that a man who makes the decision to have sex with a virgin is responsible for her well-being by marrying her since non-virgins were not marriageable in ancient times

Not very complicated, after all :clap2:

I give up, no matter how many times basic questions are asked you refuse to answer them.


That's what I usually encounter when someone is so fundamentalist (YouWereCreated, Sunni Man, yourself) they absolutely refuse to admit anything in their holy books are immoral. I could list dozens and dozens of inhuman and immoral things in the Old Testament and you'd deflect either with a childish insult/a non-answer/or my personal favorite a justification of the immorality.

You've been pwned. You were clueless of the correct reading of your own biblical citation.

Now, walk away

Then explain what the quoted passage means or admit you don't have a clue.
 
You are a 21st century man reading a 0 century book.


If a woman was to get married, her family had to pay a dowery. basically give money to the future husbands family. or vice versa, I can't recall.

If they did the deed [it was more than likely not 21st century rape, but consensual sex], the father of the woman will not be able to get her out of the home. So the man has to pay a fine to the family.

I'm fairly certain, actual rape would end with the death of the man. I can't recall, but that would fall under coveting and honoring your mom and dad.

Fair enough, but there's plenty of instances in the OT where rape is encouraged in some instances, so I'm sure the old men who thought up the Bible didn't worry too much about the outcome for the women involved.

I disagree [somewhat]. While rape was seen as a conquesters right, or some such non-sense, keep in mind, if you and I were different tribes, we considered each other to be lesser beings and not fully "human". So raping your women wasn't a crime while raping one of my own may have dire consequences.

Well you agreed with me there, not disagreed. If you encourage raping the women of who you conquested than you have no issue with the principle of rape and how it affects the women who were raped.
 

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